Guys, I baught this 96 Challenger and it had no power at all, I looked at all kind of stuff(I checked the RAVEs, I had to fixe one and adjusted them both as per the book, flush to the top, replaced plugs for iridiums, compression is ~150, cleaned spark arrester) and realised it had to do with the burning of the exaust hose... Everytime I go out to try it, because I always think the last repare should do it... I'm burning one more hose... the last one lasted about 30-45mins at med to high rev. The boat revs ~7000 and did 64Km/h on GPS. I know it could go faster but, for now I'm happy with this. Now I'm thinking the problem is all about the cooling system but everthing seam right. My last adjustment was the water flow regulator(flush to the top), because it was adjusted pretty tigh before. Now, my question is, Am'I going to burn another one of these hoses... the one between the manifold and resonator. Anything you guys could think of before I head back out and burn another one... Thanks
96 Challenger 787 Exhaust hose burning up
- Thread starter pascalb18
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seadoodude1
New Member
Sounds like it's not getting enough water into the exhaust thru the water regulator. Something is plugged up or not routed correctly. Check all hoses and nipples. Double check the water regulator adjustment as on my PWC it's opposite of the RAVE but may be correct for your model. Check servise manual for setting and hose routing. Not related to the issue, but I don't think you should be using any spark plugs other than the exact type called for. I have seen holes burnt in the pistons from incorrect plugs.
So, you think this should be it, all about exhaust cooling... I'll check the routing again but, I thaught it was good. My service manual says flush to the top - 2 clicks for the valve. I'm thinking pressured air should do it if any of the hose/nipples are clogged??? I'm going to do it now and will be back! As for the plugs, they are the same rating as BR8ES, but iridium (BR8EIX). We race dirt bikes and our experience is that they don't fool, and I'm not saying that they are harder to fool... I actually never fooled one of these. So after reading a couple of posts about fooling these engine, this was my first move. But since you mention it... I'll keep an eye on the plugs colour. Thanks.
Update
Everything looked good but I'm sure "cleaning the pipes" probably didn't hurt. Now I need to find one of these exhaust tube to go and try it out again. The seadoo dealer's part department is closed on Sat... Any idea where else I could find a piece of two inch exhaust rated rubber hose? Thanks.
Everything looked good but I'm sure "cleaning the pipes" probably didn't hurt. Now I need to find one of these exhaust tube to go and try it out again. The seadoo dealer's part department is closed on Sat... Any idea where else I could find a piece of two inch exhaust rated rubber hose? Thanks.
boatmonkey82
New Member
i know your thinking it but do not use radiator hose ! . it has to be for a wet exhaust system or it will burn up . they are very thick and should have a wire wrap inside them .do you have water coming out your exitaust in the yard on the hose ? if not then you have a problem . the steel exitaust pipe from the zone will not hold up at all and i dont think it will seal very good . the only reason i can think of for burning up the hose is no water , and it has to get very hot to do so
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I have water coming out when running on the garden hose and,... Yes, I was thought of rad hose but didn't go for it... I didn't think it would hold either. I blew all the tube out with compressed air and I adjusted the water flow regulator valve on the resonator because it was way too tight according to the manual. Now it's flush to the top, minus two clicks. What I'm wondering about is if this bad adjustment could have created this problem or if you guys think it's impossible and there must be something else wrong. Would loosening this valve adjustment provide even more water, just to be safe and then be reajusted slowly after trials? These hoses are 25$ ea and I don't want to go through to many before figuring this out. I also saw that the regulator vavle is a little loose at the bottom and moves a bit where it mounts on the resonator, should this be very tight? Should I epoxy this thing in place? Thanks for any inputs!!:cheers:
Water regulator?
When you are idling along, the pressure from your top hose is minimal, which allows water into the tuned pipe through that hose that is below the top one. Water also passes out the bottom into that regulated brass fitting.
When the motor speeds up, pressure from your pump is pushed again'st the diaphragm, pushing up on that needle valve. This in turn, stops the flow of water to your tuned pipe.
If your burning up your exhaust pipe, then your exhaust is getting to hot. You can regulate that temperature some by closing down on your red cap. But, I think first, I'd take off that elbow at the tuned pipe. That fitting is like a jet. It has a set orifice size and if it's clogged up, this would be a reason for you to be getting that exhaust too hot and melting your hose.
Oh, and BTW, .........again'st everyones comments, I have used standard radiator hose and had no problems. Specifically, on a 1994 GTS and a 97 XP.......
I don't understand the term, "wet exhaust system" when the temps of a radiator are upward of 180 to 190 degrees F and usually, submerged in coolant.........I'm not saying it's o.k. to use or that these guys who answered, might have read this in a manual somewhere. I'm just saying, I used the radiator hose with success............it's the temperature that kills and it's totally on the water regulator if it's melting..........:cheers:
When you are idling along, the pressure from your top hose is minimal, which allows water into the tuned pipe through that hose that is below the top one. Water also passes out the bottom into that regulated brass fitting.
When the motor speeds up, pressure from your pump is pushed again'st the diaphragm, pushing up on that needle valve. This in turn, stops the flow of water to your tuned pipe.
If your burning up your exhaust pipe, then your exhaust is getting to hot. You can regulate that temperature some by closing down on your red cap. But, I think first, I'd take off that elbow at the tuned pipe. That fitting is like a jet. It has a set orifice size and if it's clogged up, this would be a reason for you to be getting that exhaust too hot and melting your hose.
Oh, and BTW, .........again'st everyones comments, I have used standard radiator hose and had no problems. Specifically, on a 1994 GTS and a 97 XP.......
I don't understand the term, "wet exhaust system" when the temps of a radiator are upward of 180 to 190 degrees F and usually, submerged in coolant.........I'm not saying it's o.k. to use or that these guys who answered, might have read this in a manual somewhere. I'm just saying, I used the radiator hose with success............it's the temperature that kills and it's totally on the water regulator if it's melting..........:cheers:
seadoodude1
New Member
I'm certain it does not stop the flow of water, rather it regulates the flow to prevent too much water at higher pressures. If it stopped all flow it would melt in a heart beat, not enough water due to a restriction will melt the hose.
timmyboy76
New Member
dont think its a faulty WR, or else you'd have rpm issues too. i'd start fish'n clean out wire at all the water fittings..
Sounds logical....
Yeah, if it weren't for the shop manual, I'd have to agree with you. The water regulator valve works by pressure created from the pump but according to the shop manual for 1997, under the cooling system section, specifically Chapter 4, sub section 3, it states that when the boat/ski is at low speed, water is injected into the tuned pipe. At higher speed, there is NO water injected in the tuned pipe. So, the water regulator valve does have two settings. Open and closed..........
When the tuned pipe runs hot, most of the time, it's a small piece of sand or some type of trash that has gotten into one of the threaded orifices that regulate water flow.
Yeah, if it weren't for the shop manual, I'd have to agree with you. The water regulator valve works by pressure created from the pump but according to the shop manual for 1997, under the cooling system section, specifically Chapter 4, sub section 3, it states that when the boat/ski is at low speed, water is injected into the tuned pipe. At higher speed, there is NO water injected in the tuned pipe. So, the water regulator valve does have two settings. Open and closed..........
When the tuned pipe runs hot, most of the time, it's a small piece of sand or some type of trash that has gotten into one of the threaded orifices that regulate water flow.
boatmonkey82
New Member
well your kind right snipe about the radiator hose deal . in theory it would work as long as it had cooling water , but say if it were in the system before the coolant injection , it would burn up , wait .... i cant think of a single engine that would even have a rubber fitting before the water injection would take place .... duuuh . your right snipe :stupid:
Update
Thanks Guys, for all the replies,
I didn't take the water regulator appart, I took the cap off and it looks like it moves freely. I put a stainless flex pipe on and it works, not perfect but until I get the water flow issues solved, it'll saves me a couple hoses. I have rad hose at home the right size so, i'll try it next. I leave in the "sub zero" country but I really want to figure this out before I store it for the winter. Right now the boat revs around 7K but something gets down to 6500, I suspect it's the lack of pressure in the exhaust due to the temporary mod. I got up to 64Km/h and it get up within 2-3 seconds. I'm kind of happy with the performances but I know there is still an issue and it could do better, the exhaust get hot after a while and I saw a couple of thread saying I should be able to touch it but... it gets to hot. I blew air into all the hoses, pinching "strategic" ones to make sure a get in all. I got a quick one... What's cooling the tune pipe at high speed? How long can I keep this engine wide open? If no flow at high speed, I can't see why this hose shouldn't burn? I think I'm missing something. As I mentioned before, the WR is a bit loose at the fittiing where it mounts on the resonator. Could this create an issue? Should I epoxy it in place? So, if tightening the WR should increase the flow, should I start by adjusting this to the max and try the Rad hose to see how it behaves?
I starting to love this thing... My wife, not as much but hey!... That's life!!! I even got my dry suit out... LOL! I'm Ready for testing until the ice wins the fight...
By the way, I got 170psi out of both cylinders... I was impressed since I thought 150 was good... I guess this thing has potential... I'm also looking at two seadoos don't know which one to pick... 2001 GTXdi(new top end) or 2000 Millenium board out to ~1100cc(15hrs ago)? Any inputs?
Thanks again for the inputs.
Pascalb18
Thanks Guys, for all the replies,
I didn't take the water regulator appart, I took the cap off and it looks like it moves freely. I put a stainless flex pipe on and it works, not perfect but until I get the water flow issues solved, it'll saves me a couple hoses. I have rad hose at home the right size so, i'll try it next. I leave in the "sub zero" country but I really want to figure this out before I store it for the winter. Right now the boat revs around 7K but something gets down to 6500, I suspect it's the lack of pressure in the exhaust due to the temporary mod. I got up to 64Km/h and it get up within 2-3 seconds. I'm kind of happy with the performances but I know there is still an issue and it could do better, the exhaust get hot after a while and I saw a couple of thread saying I should be able to touch it but... it gets to hot. I blew air into all the hoses, pinching "strategic" ones to make sure a get in all. I got a quick one... What's cooling the tune pipe at high speed? How long can I keep this engine wide open? If no flow at high speed, I can't see why this hose shouldn't burn? I think I'm missing something. As I mentioned before, the WR is a bit loose at the fittiing where it mounts on the resonator. Could this create an issue? Should I epoxy it in place? So, if tightening the WR should increase the flow, should I start by adjusting this to the max and try the Rad hose to see how it behaves?
I starting to love this thing... My wife, not as much but hey!... That's life!!! I even got my dry suit out... LOL! I'm Ready for testing until the ice wins the fight...
By the way, I got 170psi out of both cylinders... I was impressed since I thought 150 was good... I guess this thing has potential... I'm also looking at two seadoos don't know which one to pick... 2001 GTXdi(new top end) or 2000 Millenium board out to ~1100cc(15hrs ago)? Any inputs?
Thanks again for the inputs.
Pascalb18
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timmyboy76
New Member
for info on the 2-skis' your taking a gander at..i say, RUN. If/when the DI decides to mess with you, your better off, doing insurance on it...:reddevil:, and for the bored out ski...just ask'n for headaches...so, thats my 2-cents.
With 6500rpm, have you cleaned the raves, yet? and since ur down for test'n b4 snow plankets you, pull the little hose coming from W.R. to pipe, pull it from the pipe, then go out and rip around, with it hang'n out. While cruise'n, it should be a consistant flow, and then the more throttle, the less the water flow. If not, you have bad W.R.
With 6500rpm, have you cleaned the raves, yet? and since ur down for test'n b4 snow plankets you, pull the little hose coming from W.R. to pipe, pull it from the pipe, then go out and rip around, with it hang'n out. While cruise'n, it should be a consistant flow, and then the more throttle, the less the water flow. If not, you have bad W.R.
GTX not DI
I guess I messed up, it's not a 2001 GTXdi but a 2001 GTX with the new top end and very clean. I didn't think they had blue GTX in 01...
I guess I messed up, it's not a 2001 GTXdi but a 2001 GTX with the new top end and very clean. I didn't think they had blue GTX in 01...
timmyboy76
New Member
double check the year
not only was there a "blue" GTX-DI, but the RX-DI also in blue, in 2001. The GTX in 01, was red......also, the LRV was blue.
not only was there a "blue" GTX-DI, but the RX-DI also in blue, in 2001. The GTX in 01, was red......also, the LRV was blue.
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here is the link, you can probably tell better than I can...
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehi...owersports-Seadoo-GTX-2001-W0QQAdIdZ155068889
boatmonkey82
New Member
all ways go for the ski that has the least aftermarket performance parts and the one that has had the least amount of work on it . factory works best . also here is a story for your water injection . i have a 4500 psi power washer , bad ass washer , the tip came off one day and when i put it back on it would not spray any thing . took it back off and it had one , yes one lil bitty tiny grain of sand stuck in the orfice . so if a grain of sand will stop 4500 psi it will stop a water regulator on a doo doo .
timmyboy76
New Member
yeah, from where I got th info, probably he mis-labeled them. Just found a 01-DI, in red...
Almost there!!!
I got about 3 good hours out of this one... Then, again... It Bursts! Oh well, I guess I need to put my mechanics hat on again. I compared my WR with the one in the book and it doesn't look the same at all. I know the RAVE parts changed from when it was first manufactured but, anyone knows about the WR? Mine is mainly plastic and rubber diaphragm. The one in the book looks like its made of aluminum or stainless.
Anyways, after looking at it, it seemed like it wasn't put together properly but I don't have anything to go by, since the one in the book is completely different.
Anyone has a picture or diagram of the proper way to put these together?
I got about 3 good hours out of this one... Then, again... It Bursts! Oh well, I guess I need to put my mechanics hat on again. I compared my WR with the one in the book and it doesn't look the same at all. I know the RAVE parts changed from when it was first manufactured but, anyone knows about the WR? Mine is mainly plastic and rubber diaphragm. The one in the book looks like its made of aluminum or stainless.
Anyways, after looking at it, it seemed like it wasn't put together properly but I don't have anything to go by, since the one in the book is completely different.
Anyone has a picture or diagram of the proper way to put these together?
I think I finally figured it out!!!
As I said before, the WR didn't look like it was properly put together so, after a couple of trials, and burned hoses... I think it's good to go now. It doesn't spit water from the sides anymore but I couldn't fully test it since the lake was too rough and I didn't want to be part of the stats...
The engine looked like it was reving better and also has better immediate response to the trottle. So, if this is it, I'll post the picture of the WR properly put together. I also found one on ebay for 25$ and bough it in case this one keeps on acting up.
Anyways, I'll try getting out when everything is calm and see how it performs. I think, it's supposed to do 45mi/h, rev around 7000 and plane within 2-3 secs. If it does, I guess I can say it's fine tuned and I'll be ready to winterize it and wait for the spring.
I also found a bimini top on ebay for 230$ made of Weathermax. Do you guys know if it's good stuff? I offered 170$, I'll let you know if I get it... In case anyone is interested.:cheers:
As I said before, the WR didn't look like it was properly put together so, after a couple of trials, and burned hoses... I think it's good to go now. It doesn't spit water from the sides anymore but I couldn't fully test it since the lake was too rough and I didn't want to be part of the stats...
The engine looked like it was reving better and also has better immediate response to the trottle. So, if this is it, I'll post the picture of the WR properly put together. I also found one on ebay for 25$ and bough it in case this one keeps on acting up.
Anyways, I'll try getting out when everything is calm and see how it performs. I think, it's supposed to do 45mi/h, rev around 7000 and plane within 2-3 secs. If it does, I guess I can say it's fine tuned and I'll be ready to winterize it and wait for the spring.
I also found a bimini top on ebay for 230$ made of Weathermax. Do you guys know if it's good stuff? I offered 170$, I'll let you know if I get it... In case anyone is interested.:cheers:
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