Just bought my first boat and got screwed. Need advice.

[drey05]

Just bought a 1999 SeaDoo Challenger 1800 with the twin Rotax 787's. Its my first boat ever owning/driving. I knew to do a compression test and they all checked out at 130-135. I put it in the water and on the bottom of one of the intake/exhaust tubes one of the freeze plugs is totally missing. When I look online and can find the part its discontinued and is $900 bucks. Is welding it a safe fix? Also they had the oil injection system capped off and ran pre mix. Not sure why it was capped off. Anyone have ideas why? Should I just reconnect the lines or keep the pre mix? Only one speaker is working, should I rewire the entire system? So much for this boat being in "mint" shape although it does look like its in good shape. And to think I drove over 3 hours to get it. Help!

 

[drey05]

Also the gas gauge doesn't work. Possible bad float? or is it more likely and gauge itself?

 

[LouDoo]

Hi and welcome to the SeaDoo forum.

I hate to the the bearer of more bad news but optimum compression on a 787 is 150psi, so 130-135 is not terrible but it's not real good either, you're probably looking at a rebuild soon.

Have the exhaust pipes tig welded, this is a common problem.

To re-install the oil injection system you'll need two oil pumps, two oil pump cables, and the tubing. Is the oil tank still in the boat? Minnetonka4me or 99spxxx probably has all the parts you need.

Now the good news, the problem with the fuel gauge is probably just the float, get the new molded style.

Lou

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Hi & welcome to the forum.
The first rule to buying a used water craft is to water test it first for at least 15-20 minutes. This would have allowed you to see the hole in the pipe (which can be tig-welded).
Gas gauge....could be either of the fixes you mentioned.

BTW a 787 should have 150 PSI for compression....130-135 will be OK for this season but I would start saving $$$$ for a rebuild on both motors within the next year or so.
What oil are you using...it should be full synthetic for the 787. Either Seadoo BRP type or Amsoil, or other that meets the standards.

 

[howie099]

The oil system would only be disconnected if the person didn't know how you to maintain it. I highly doubt both oil pumps quit. You will save money in oil and plugs turning it back on. You still the need the oil tank for RV assemlies so I would get the oil injection back online if you have all of the parts. The compression is a bit low but the engines could be original yet. If the oil lines to RV assemplies are capped you eninges might be damaged already.

Most of the pipes can be welded with no issues and it much cheaper than buying. Other option is used of course for the parts you need.

The sound system it like the last on a list. Most people really don't count the sound sysytem as part of the boat in mint shape.Repair as needed for radio. I am sure you have bad speakers or head unit. Most wires don't go bad unless someone cut them.

 

[drey05]

I knew normal compression was 150, but figured I could get a year out of it and id save to have both engines redone. I should have water tested it but after the long drive there ended up being high winds and a storm there so it was unsafe conditions to be on the water. I took and risk and lost. lol. I think all of the pumps are still there. Is there any way to tell if after I get everything hooked back up if there is a faulty pump or part? I don't want to not run pre mix and end up blowing an engine because something wasn't working. And yes the sounds system is the last part ill worry about, having an amazing sounds system in a boat that doesn't move is useless lol.

How much does a normal rebuild cost for parts? I have a guy to do the work cheap, just needs parts. I am having a hard time finding parts, everything i see says discontinued.

 

[drey05]

Hi & welcome to the forum.
The first rule to buying a used water craft is to water test it first for at least 15-20 minutes. This would have allowed you to see the hole in the pipe (which can be tig-welded).
Gas gauge....could be either of the fixes you mentioned.

BTW a 787 should have 150 PSI for compression....130-135 will be OK for this season but I would start saving $$$$ for a rebuild on both motors within the next year or so.
What oil are you using...it should be full synthetic for the 787. Either Seadoo BRP type or Amsoil, or other that meets the standards.

The seller had the tank full and mixed when I bought it so I have no clue.

 

[drey05]

Hi and welcome to the SeaDoo forum.

I hate to the the bearer of more bad news but optimum compression on a 787 is 150psi, so 130-135 is not terrible but it's not real good either, you're probably looking at a rebuild soon.

Have the exhaust pipes tig welded, this is a common problem.

To re-install the oil injection system you'll need two oil pumps, two oil pump cables, and the tubing. Is the oil tank still in the boat? Minnetonka4me or 99spxxx probably has all the parts you need.

Now the good news, the problem with the fuel gauge is probably just the float, get the new molded style.

Lou

Where would I find the new molded style?

 

[jhjesse]

Where would I find the new molded style?

Try here:
http://www.parkeryamaha.com/seadoofuelfloat295500438.aspx

 

[howie099]

Most of the engine/driveline parts are the same a jetski. Most of the common boat parts to every boat. Only a few items are specific to the model. The challenger 1800 you can still find a lot of used parts you will need. The hard parts are like the weedless system, ride shoes, MPEMs, some of the cosmetic pieces, fuel pumps. Most people here have found ways to get around them so just ask for what you need help with or search the forum.

For the engines figure $1000 for each plus allignement tools and misc ($200). So about $2200 to put in 2 fresh rebuilts give or take some depending on whatever else is worn out. You will get the best deals on the engines in the cold months if you can wait.

Most places charge like $20 or so to weld that pipe uip if you wanted to know. Find a buddy with a welder and bring some beer you get better price.

 

[drey05]

Ya I have a friend that works for the state and his boss is a master welder so hes going to weld it for me. What is all needed for a rebuild. Pistons and rings? or is there a lot more that is mandatory to change out? I was going to hold off on the oil injection and just keep running pre mix but now I worried from howe099 post. Thinking I bit off more than I can handle. Damn $$$.

 

[howie099]

Those old of engines your should just get your rebuilt or trade them for rebuilt ones. Doing a topend will just get you by another season or 2 and the than the bottom will go plus you can get a 1 -3 year warranty on the replacement engines. Seadoo's make high HP for such a small engine takes toll on all the parts.

 

[SYKO]

it sucks your having so many problems right off the bat, Ive been lurking for a good long bit so far. I knew if I got into an older boat I had already decided on the single engine model just for the repair price standpoint. Hopefully it all goes your way for you! good luck!

 

[drey05]

Where would I go for a rebuilt engine?

SYKO- I have "Live & Learn" tattooed on my wrist for a reason. My next boat will be a 4 stroke single engine.

 

[SYKO]

lol good tat... I got born to loose live to win on my shoulder! never give up!!!

 

[howie099]

There are a few places. Usually fullbore in the off season will give you a 3 year warranty on them. SES is little less than fullbore with max a 2 year warranty. Both do good work and you need to send your engine to them first. SBT is the largest rebuilder with fastest turn around. They are not the cheapest but you get it in a week. Some people say they don't use as good of parts are the smaller shops which could be true. The smaller shops boast about what they put in them SBT doesn't. They just says OEM quality. I had SES rebuild my 657x for $700 took about 5 weeks they charge $950 for a 787. SBT charges $1200. Off season turn around times are much faster. To me $500 less for a more than likely better parts engine is worth the wait. If you need it now than SBT is the one.

 

[Brian J]

Sorry to hear the boat was not what you expected. Lotta shady sellers out there.

The things you mentioned are common problems, just take it one step at a time.

The one speaker not working is one of 3 things, broken or shorted wire (this is the easiest/cheapest and most likely culprit). That channel of the head unit is bad, or the speaker is bad. The last two will require replacement but neither are expensive, hard or urgent.

 

[drey05]

Im not concerned about the 130 compression reading this year. I mainly am going to use the boat to cruise around 30mph to get to the local sand bar which is about a 20 min boat ride. WOT will probably happen very little unless the price of gas crashes lol. The speaker and gas gauge issue is nothing really. Easy fixes. I am worried about the oil injection system being disconnected and what damage that may have caused. I figured a top end rebuild this winter but not a whole engine rebuild. We did take it out on the water this weekend and everything ran well until we found the water leak in the exhaust pipe. Hopefully we can get it welded and put on the oil injection hooked up and it works. Wish I could just run premix, that would make my life so much easier I think.

 

[Fallsguy]

Lots of guys intentionally bypass the oil injection because they fear a failure will fry the engine. They make/sell bypass kits. There are a lot if threads on here debating to do this or not. If ur looking to do some rebuilding premix ur oil (not likely a harm anyway) and use ur boat! You're going to find these boats are ahem.... Challenging to ur mental stability but I've discover it's a labour of love! These forums are your best guide and there's a lot of smart dudes on here.

Good luck with ur boating season. Get ur doo doing!

 

[drey05]

Ok couple questions after working on the boat tonight. We took both exhaust pipes out and I am going to find someone to weld them. I am ordering a new float for the gas tank and a new gasket for the exhaust pipes. Also found the bilge fan not working so I have ordered one of those.

We looked into the oil tank and saw that both lines have been disconnected. Im assuming one lines goes to the carbs and one to the rotary valve. Which is which? They are two different diameters. Also can I just reconnect the RV line and not the carb line and continue to premix? What are the pros/cons? I am nervous to not premix because I have no idea why the tank was disconnected anyways and not sure how I would test the system to verify someone was just dumb and didnt like it.

Also on top of the cylinder heads there is a wire coming out which we assume is for a temp reading. But there is no temp gauge or lights. What does this wire go to and how hard is it to hook it up to a temp gauge?

The right engine you can tell has been worked on, maybe a top end rebuild. But that engine is also not holding compression. The left engine is 130 but holds and has no signs of being worked on. Im thinking a top end rebuild in both this winter. Thoughts? When/why would I have to rebuild the bottom end?

Thank you everyone for all the help! Any advice, hint, tips or tricks are welcomed!

 

[dbracela]

The thicker (12 mm) feeds the RV and needs to remain connected if you choose to run premix. It should run from the bottom of your tank, split into two lines and enter the starboard side of each engine. A vent/return line will run from the port side and back to the top of the oil tank.

I believe it's the hoses marked #13 here:

http://fiche.seadoowarehouse.com/se...eadoojb&a=161&b=9&c=0&d=-OIL-INJECTION-SYSTEM

You said the oil pumps are already capped off and the lines plugged?

I believe you are correct that the wire coming off the head is from the temp sensor. There is no actual gauge or light. High temp warnings are delivered via the buzzer. Those buzzers are known to fail now and then. There is a thread here about replacing them with a radio shack version.

My humble opinion on top ends is to not do them. The engines are old. Read up on the idea here and you will find that most people will tell you that a fresh top end on an old bottom end will not last, the bottom end will fail sooner rather than later. If the engine grenades and you put a hole in the case you will lose a rebuildable core, or at least it will cost more. Plus, you will have wasted all that money and time on the top ends. If you are in a rush, do an engine exchange. 400 to 500 for a top end vs 900 to 1000 for a rebuild, with warranty.

I had engine troubles this year, and considered doing just a top end. Everyone was willing to sell me the parts but NO ONE would agree to do the work. They all said the bottom would quickly fail and didnt want their names attached to that sort of work. I had it rebuilt for 900 in a week. Coincidentally, it was the right engine, it had obviously been worked on by the PO (the head bolts had obviously been removed before).

I vote you go the reman/exchange route with warranty and more piece of mind. Your wallet will thank you later.

Edit: you said the boat ran fine except the exhaust leak, are you sure you have the correct compression readings?

 

[drey05]

If I continue to premix what is the correct ratio?

 

[dbracela]

40:1

Just make sure to also leave some in the tank and the RV lines on.

 

[drey05]

ok...one more question.

The right throttle lever works fine, but the left one you have to hold in place or it keeps falling back to no throttle. Possible linkage/cable problem or is it the lever unit itself?

 

[dbracela]

There's a plastic screw adjuster, on the handle itself, that you can adjust to keep it from sliding back. I believe it's under the control levers plastic cover. It may be below that even, I can't quite remember. Take the cover off, try not to break the screws as they are usually tough, and look at the side of the handle assembly. If it isn't there take the 4 bolts out, lift the assembly out a bit and look for the plastic screw there. 90% sure it's just under the first cover though.