I have read several post

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97explorer717

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I'm about to install my 4th head pipe by the book. OEM gaskets, new bushings and new bolts. I keep reading about buying new lock washers and even the three Alan's and nut come with new lock washers. The book States clearly to use flat washers. So am I using flat washers, lock washers or both? This is the fourth time doing this I have never in my life had to do something so many times! I have installed all new mounts bought an alignment tool and pump rebuild all OEM. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. It's a 96 Challenger with a 787.
 
When I purchased the boat the pipe was bad. Replaced it ran all last season on it no problems. This season problems second timeout. The problem is two or three of the bolts will come loose one will stay tight and snap the ears off. New gaskets bolts and torque every time. Only thing I can figure is the threads in the manifold were really sloppy. I just replaced the manifold so I'm going to try this again!
 
Are you using Loctite on the threads? Has the engine been rebuilt prior to you buying it?

Chester
 
Yes I'm using the blue Loctite and the engine was rebuilt. There is some vibration I don't know if it's too much or not. My Explorer had around the same amount of vibration but I'm not sure. I also did the carbs a season. Before the pipe messed up it was running better than it ever had. The engine had cross my mind.
 
I wonder if the counterbalance shaft is not properly timed with the crankshaft. It would do what you described.

Chester
 
Exactly what I was thinking worst case. I planned on having engine gone through this winter. Not sure where I'm even going to get that done. Not a fan of SBT and was thinking SES but not sure about that either.
 
Honestly the only reliable opinion at this point is SBT or if you can do it yourself.

Although with shipping SBT can be more than getting a short block directly from Seadoo.
 
1400$ for a short block. I think I'm going to go to that direction. Just thought about something though. Is it possible I'm not giving the Loctite time to set up. I bolted it together and head straight to the lake!
 
You have something else going on. I have never had a single one come loose even without loctite.

A complete shortblock with everything but head and manifolds from seadoo is $1,138.39 from Pro Caliber with free shipping. You will have to send your core back to them though.
 
Well yours is a 787 and not a 720. If you have new bushings in the lower pipe, make sure everything is aligned hand tight when the copper ring and clamp goes on and the MAG support is hand tight then start torquing things down progressively up to final spec then there isn’t anything else. The pipe will not come loose. If it does you have done something wrong or your engine has major excessive vibration. Most likely a crank or balancer that isn’t true or not aligned correctly.
 
I know it's not 717 but this covers both on this. Now for instance the page before this 717 gets blue Loctite on manifold bolts. 787 gets Loctite 515. That's all it says about bolts and torque specs for the head pipe. It doesn't separate the two. This manual I have is for the year and covers the make of my boat plus the other ones. I'm going to put it back together one more time. Also going to Mark the bolts and watch it like a hawk. If It loosen I'm going to stop and get towed in instead of limping it back. I'm also going to go against the book this time. I'm going to put 515 on the threads. I had three bolts and nuts that I test it. One with 242, another with 248 and last the 515. 242 set in 12 hours could not turn by hand. 515 set in 30 minutes could not turn by hand. 248 24 hours later could still be broke free by hand. The 515 penetrated the threads really nice and even had a good beat at the end. I was really impressed by that. Supposably from what I've read that's why the manifold bolts get torque with that as it doesn't break down as fast. So why not use it on up the pipe? The blues not holding it. I totally agree with you that I have another problem and that counter balance shaft is what I suspect. Just a little insight. I've been turning wrenches for 30 years (not on Seadoo) and I have never ever done something so many times. Usually if I have to repeat something it's because of a defective part. It's been years since that even happened. My Explorer I had with a 717 had the same gasket blow out. I'll loosen the pipe pulled the old gasket out and put the new one in. I tighten the bolts by feel and ran it 3 years before I sold it without any problems. If I can get it through this season I'm going to buy that short block. Well regardless I'm going to get that short block I'll just be down for this season which sucks!
 
You're wasting your time. You have an out of balance problem (I mentioned this before). Pull the engine out, turn it upside down and remove the bottom case. Then, lift out the counterbalance shaft and put it in properly timed with the crankshaft. You have to fix the cause. Don't waste your time experimenting with different Loctites, you need to usee 242. If you were to use bearing retainer Loctite, then the bolts will break and the pipe or manifold will crack. Do it right the first time so you don't have to do it again.

My favourite saying, "there's never time/money to do it right but there's always time/money to do it over".

Chester
 
I can do that. I thought I would have to tear the engine completely apart to do that. If it's just a matter of removing the bottom case I'll see about that. What sealant do I need to put the case halves back together. I've read and seen a lot of debate about that. Also I guess while we're on the subject am I going to be able to refill that with the oil and what kind of oil does that get? Mine appears to have no drain plugs to change that oil for the shaft.
 
Three bond 1184 is pretty good when reassembling the cases. You probably can't see it until you get the engine out, but there's a small Allen screw as a drain on the bottom case where the balance shaft gear sits on the 787. The book calls for 40 ml of 30 wt oil. But I've used 5-30 synthetic I've held back on doing an vehicle oil change since it's just a small amount you need.
 
The 1996 engines don't have the fill and drain plugs. With the engine upside down you are going to have to put some oil in the balancer gear area before you put the cases together. As GG said, I prefer the 1184 also but you can use hondabond, Yamabond or Permatex Motoseal as they are the same. Others prefer ThreeBond 1211. Just don't use RTV silicone.
 
Well I learned something just now, I just picked up a 1996 GSX with the 787. I thought the engines were identical to the 97's except the purple exhaust pipe.
 
That is correct mine does not have the plugs. As far as the sealants that's the names I was looking for. I read about them on another thread a while back but couldn't remember. I know it needs to be gas and oil resistant switch they should be I'm sure. Engines already out sitting on the bench in the garage. I pulled it to do the pipe on the table instead of being bent over in that hole. I'm going to pull that bottom all and look. I'm kind of hoping it is out of time!
 
How much am I going to have to disassemble to get the bottom case off? Am I going to have to remove the flywheel? I'm not at the house right now and am mainly asking to see if I'm going to need any special tools for this.
 
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