Gtx ran great two days ago. Now it won't start wtf???

[spx787]

The only thing I did since was repair the steering cable. It busted off at the nut by the handle bars so I threaded it and put it back on. I had to loosen and pull up the steering column where it attaches to the hull to reattach the cable. Now it won't start! It cranks but won't fire up. I'm getting spark and even poureda little premix in each of the cylinders and get nothing. Any insight is greatly aporeciated. 4th of July weekend kinda sucks now. Especially since my spx is sitting two hours away and runs.

 

[spx787]

Is it possible for the starter to crank the engine but not have enough force to start it? I'm really baffled. I've got spark, pulled the fuel return hose and fuel is flowing thru. I poured fuel directly in the cylinder and it still wouldn't start

 

[bwhite]

I'm confused with what you're saying. Does it actually turn over, and is it sluggish? Check the voltage on your battery as you're cranking. How old is the battery?

 

[dannyual767]

Is it possible for the starter to crank the engine but not have enough force to start it? I'm really baffled. I've got spark, pulled the fuel return hose and fuel is flowing thru. I poured fuel directly in the cylinder and it still wouldn't start ����

It's not the starter that is the problem but rather the battery. If it isn't strong and fully charged then it won't supply enough voltage to actually fire up the engine during cranking. It happened to me when I first bought my '96 XPs. The engine would crank just fine and with a spark plug out and grounded, I could see spark.

The internet guys told me that it was the battery but I thought they were full of it. Nevertheless, I removed the battery then fully charged it, reconnected it and the ski fired right up. Made a complete believer out of me!

 

[spx787]

Hooked the battery up to the charger and yep, it's not fully charged. I'm betting that you are correct. Letting battery charge now. I'll report back. Thanks!

 

[spx787]

The battery is only a few months old but it's a neverstart from Walmart.

 

[spx787]

Ok battery fully charged and still no start. Pulled the plugs and they were wet like it's flooding. What should my next plan of attack be?

 

[Dr Honda]

The battery is only a few months old but it's a neverstart from Walmart.

Those are the worst batteries ever made. I cant even count how many I've seen be bad out of the box. Take it back under warranty, and get something else.

Ok battery fully charged and still no start. Pulled the plugs and they were wet like it's flooding. What should my next plan of attack be?

get some fresh air into the engine... clean/replace the plugs... and it should be fine.

 

[bwhite]

Those are the worst batteries ever made. I cant even count how many I've seen be bad out of the box. Take it back under warranty, and get something else.

+1 on this. Had a bad battery earlier this year.. Haven't had many issues with them in the past, but plan to change it up next purchase.

 

[spx787]

Those are the worst batteries ever made. I cant even count how many I've seen be bad out of the box. Take it back under warranty, and get something else.




get some fresh air into the engine... clean/replace the plugs... and it should be fine.

So just take the plugs out and let it air out, I assume? What battery do you suggest?

 

[spx787]

How in the hell does a ski go from running like a scalded dog a few days prior then not building pressure in the PTO cylinder??? I did a compression check and found the MAG at 135 but the PTO at 20 psi. The ski showed NO signs of this on Wednesday or Thursday. It ran great even when loading it on the trailer. Now this. Could this be something as simple as a blown head gasket or something or does this always mean top end rebuild?

I'll pull it apart in a few days and examine because right now that ski makes me feel sick. I don't have the cash for a top end right now so it will become a "next summer" ski if that's the case. *sigh*

 

[spx787]

Btw I am running premix with a block off in this ski so no chance that it wasn't getting oil.

 

[dannyual767]

Wow. That is some really crummy news. I'm sorry to hear it.

For me, these things have been quite frustrating. While I haven't had one go down to 20 psi on a cylinder, I have had one of the two XPs running perfectly on several outings then to run like total dog poo the next time and not ever be able to get it to run right again.

The other one runs great but for some reason when I get it home and try to flush it, it won't start :facepalm: . No matter what I do, it won't start until the next day.....or the next. It happened one time on the water as well .

I think one has to have the patience of a saint with these things!

 

[spx787]

I had issues with my SPX when I first bought it. Had to change out the grey fuel lines, clean out the carbs etc. but since I've gotten her going over a year ago, she's been great.

I can't even tell you how disappointed I am that this happened to my GTX though. The two evenings I got to ride that thing I was loving it! The SPX is a ton of fun but sometimes you just wanna cruise and have a bit more of a chill ride. That's what the GTX was for. I'm just hoping that it is something simple but I have a feeling I'll be rebuilding the top end this winter and won't get to use it til the spring. I can't afford to buy a new top end right now. I just spent a shload of money on my car.

 

[racerxxx]

Well, did you service the carbs and fuel system on this GTX, you didn't mention above? If you didn't, that is how you can go from full compression to 20 psi in 2 days. Premix or not, if fuel isn't getting to the piston the oil isn't either.

 

[spx787]

Wouldn't it be running like crap or not running at all if there was no fuel getting to the cylinder? I replaced some of the hose and cleaned out the fuel tank. I also sprayed carb cleaner into the carbs. I didn't take them apart because the engine was running well. It was the "don't mess with it if nothing is wrong" ideology. Perhaps that was my mistake?

I don't know how many hours were on this engine that I installed either. I just know that it was a running engine. I guess I just need to pull it apart and look.

 

[Dr Honda]

How in the hell does a ski go from running like a scalded dog a few days prior then not building pressure in the PTO cylinder??? I did a compression check and found the MAG at 135 but the PTO at 20 psi. The ski showed NO signs of this on Wednesday or Thursday. It ran great even when loading it on the trailer. Now this. Could this be something as simple as a blown head gasket or something or does this always mean top end rebuild?

I'll pull it apart in a few days and examine because right now that ski makes me feel sick. I don't have the cash for a top end right now so it will become a "next summer" ski if that's the case. *sigh*

Wow... that sucks. (sorry)


The 800 engine doesn't have a head gasket... just a couple O-rings. So, the chances of it being a leak around the head is slim. All I can say at this point, is to pull the head and look inside. Once you do that... we can all help diagnose the issue.


Now... as far as your oiling...

What oil were you using? What ratio? How were you supplying oil to your rotary valve? (and what kind)

 

[Dr Honda]

Wouldn't it be running like crap or not running at all if there was no fuel getting to the cylinder? I replaced some of the hose and cleaned out the fuel tank. I also sprayed carb cleaner into the carbs. I didn't take them apart because the engine was running well. It was the "don't mess with it if nothing is wrong" ideology. Perhaps that was my mistake?

I don't know how many hours were on this engine that I installed either. I just know that it was a running engine. I guess I just need to pull it apart and look.

Spraying carb cleaning "Down the carb" does more harm than good. When there is a fueling issue... it's an internal problem. So... spraying it down the carb would be the same as you taking a shower when you have cancer. It may make you feel better, but it won't cure the issue.

Also, it's a solvent. So, spraying it into the carb... and into the engine... all it will do is break down the oil in the engine. (not good) not to mention, it will dry out the crank seals... and that can cause a lean run.

Anything other than fuel, API-TC oil, and fuel stabilizer is a HUGE no-no in a 2-stroke.

 

[racerxxx]

Love the analogy Doc, straight and to the point.

 

[spx787]

I have never run anything other than API-TC oil in either of my skis. The ratio I use is the recommended 40:1. As far as oil to the rotary valve, is that the lines that you leaved hooked up to the bottom end? Because I hooked those on as well as made sure there was still about half a reservoir full of oil to feed it.

 

[Dr Honda]

I have never run anything other than API-TC oil in either of my skis. The ratio I use is the recommended 40:1. As far as oil to the rotary valve, is that the lines that you leaved hooked up to the bottom end? Because I hooked those on as well as made sure there was still about half a reservoir full of oil to feed it.

OK... that's good. I can't tell you how many times I hear "Pre-mix"... and then "I have to put oil in the lower hoses still??"


Anyway... pop the head, and post some pictures. It could show us a melt... or it could have been purely mechanical. (Cracked ring, dropped RAVE, etc.)

 

[spx787]

I'm guessing I will have to pull the head off and not just the cover to see anything telling. On the 787 that means an engine pull because if that angle it's in there at. I'll pull the cover first though. My buddy and I can have that engine out in a couple hours I'm sure. I'll keep you guys posted and take some pics.

 

[soccerdad]

That sucks for sure. I just put a new (used) motor into one of my 96 GTX's. It was pulling a tube great. We stopped, and it never started right again. So we lost it while tubing, and we still didn't know it. As they say, they always run best right before they lean seize... That is likely what happened to you. Mine was also a PTO side. For what it is worth, the 96 tuning spec says to leave the HS screw on both carbs closed. On the 97 GTX (same ski and motor as your 96) it has you open the PTO side carb HS screw 1/4 turn. So I think the PTO side runs hotter and they fixed it with tuning in 97. All of my 787's now have the PTO HS screw open 1/4 turn. The plugs look great after running this way over the weekend. And I am not sure if this had any effect, but with premix, you are actually running a slightly leaner air fuel ratio since you are now also metering oil in the jets and not just fuel.

 

[spx787]

I believe I set the carbs to factory specs. I'll have to check.

So it IS different on this chart. 97 GTX is Mag 0 and Pto 1/2 and the 96 has both at 0.

http://www.seadoosource.com/carbreference.html

That's funky. Like you said, same engine and hull.

 

[racerxxx]

You can pull the stuff in the ski, no need to yank it yet.

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