Engine Oil Warning

[Striker4Hire]

Hey guys,
I had my 2001 Challenger 2000 out today. 240 EFI. We took it out into Lake Michigan for the first time and had a blast. On the way back into the channel after we had it anchored near the beach for a while, I had it around 4-5000 rpm and the engine oil warning indicator came on. Little red light on my fuel gauge. Warning beeps were steady at around a 1 second interval. I dropped to idle for the no wake we were entering anyway.

While we were at idle I had a buddy in the back give me a visual on the large oil tank and he said it had at least 2 inches of oil in it. After the no wake we were still a solid mile away from the launch I tried to bring it up a bit in rpm. North of 4000 rpm the engine bogged down and it quit on me once. I let it rest for a moment and it restarted okay.

We eventually made it in to the launch.

Any thoughts on the issue?

Thanks in advance,
Jeremy

 

[Dr Honda]

The oil system is pressure fed. SO....


1) Your oil fill cap on the boat was loose, or leaking, and the main tank won't hold pressure.

2) The clamps on the filler hose was loose.

3) one of the hoses came off, and wasn't re-filling the header tank.

4) main tank was out of oil?


I really hope you didn't hurt the engine. When the oil gets low like that... you could introduce air into the pump. You should have stopped, and filled the header tank to be safe.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Had a look at it this morning.
- Fill cap on the boat seems to be on tight. Last time I loosened it was early this spring to put new oil in. I've run it 5-6 times since and this was the first time with an issue.
- Unscrewed the top of the header tank and it was full.

I'm assuming that since the header tank was full that the hoses are working since I ran the boat for a mile with the warning light on. Perhaps what looks like 2 inches of oil in the main tank is actually staining on the tank. I haven't forced off the inside cap to check, it's on there pretty good. Would the warning light behave like that if the main is low?

When I added oil this spring I used BRP TC-W3 certified 2 stroke oil, but it was not "premium plus". Would the oil type be a factor here?

 

[Striker4Hire]

A little more detail...

I stopped by Cabelas today and picked up some Mercury Premium Plus 2 cycle oil. One of the guys there told me I need the Mercury Optimax oil, but the back label said it wasn't intended for use with engines that require TC-W3 oils and all the labels on my boat ask for that. He also thought I would find the onboard oil reservoir back by the exhaust manifold, but the one I'm referring to is on the front of the engine, near the starter & fuel filter, opposite the exhaust. I'm not sure if he doesn't know what he's talking about or I'm looking at the wrong tank.

When I added 1 gallon of the new oil, the main tank appears to be about 2/3rds full. Oil cap was on so tight I needed pliers to twist it off. When I switch on the main breaker and turn the key to on, I can hear a pump running in the engine compartment but within a few seconds the oil alarm comes back on. Same steady beep from yesterday. Here are a couple pictures from my phone.

 

[Dr Honda]

2 things first.....


1) DO NOT MIX 2-STROKE OILS !!! bad things can happen. Unlike car oil... they dont' mix, and "Gelling" can happen. Did you put in the BRP oil, or did you just get the Merc oil?

2) don't ever "Listen to the guy at XXXX shop". They generally don't know what they are talking about, and only know enough to be dangerous. (LOL)

As you figured out... you don't need Optimax/DFi oil, since your engine isn't a DFI or Di engine. AND... you don't have a tank on the "Exhaust" side of your engine. It's on the front.



OK.... with that out of the way.....


Right now... your header tank is full, but the light is still on?

No... the oil level in the main tank, is not monitored on your boat. The only oil sensor is in the header tank. So... if it's full, and the light is on... then either:

1) a wire broke/came unplugged
2) the sender went bad
3) The float on the sender was damaged.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Yes, I added the BRP oil this spring to whatever was in there when I bought the boat late last summer. It ran fine all season thus far until yesterday. I have now added the Mercury oil to what was left in the main tank.

Before I start pulling wiring apart I have two quick questions:
1. Will a bad sensor result in the boat limiting rpm?
2. Is there a reset on the sensor anywhere?

Thanks for your help as usual Tony.

Jeremy

 

[Dr Honda]

1) on the 240 EFI engine.... I don't think it will. (on the 210 it does) But let me double check that.

2) No. If there is oil in the tank... the light will go off. With that said... I think my oil light will come on when I first turn on my key. (but then it goes out)



Try this....

Take the sender/cap off the header tank... and simply turn it upside down. Then... see if the light goes off. (also, make sure the float is on the sender)

 

[Striker4Hire]

Good idea to try to isolate the sensor. Unfortunately it still beeps. And I was definitely having trouble with the boat much above idle once the alarm went off yesterday.

The float is still on the plastic rod inside the cap, but it doesn't seem to contact anything up near the cap at all. Is there supposed to be some sort of proximity sensor or mechanical switch up there that is missing on mine? He's another few pics to help.

 

[Dr Honda]

The switch is in the tube.

So... if you hold the float up (or flip the sender over) the light is still on?

 

[Striker4Hire]

Yes, it was still beeping in the first picture that I took where the float was all the way up.

 

[Dr Honda]

I was just looking over the manual... and something struck me... the oil beep is intermittent. (4 beeps, and a 1~2 minute pause) The over temp is content. SO.... how is it beeping?

 

[Striker4Hire]

Rapidly without any identifiable groups of beeps. Once a second or so. It is not a continuous beep like the operators manual says for over-temp and the first time we heard it was shortly after we were parked for an hour.

 

[Dr Honda]

Hummmmmmmm........


On the 240... the oil ties into the water sensor. I wonder if you had a water issue, and it's tripping the oil light?

Try pulling the tan wire off the bottom of the big spin on filter.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Tan wire off of the big fuel filter and no more beeping.

 

[Dr Honda]

ok.....


You have water in your fuel. I know this is going to sound dumb... but on the 240... the water and oil are tied together, and trip the same light. (but have different beeps)

Try draining the filter (remove the fitting on the bottom) or replace the filter.

The engine probably died, and was running rough, because you were sucking in bad fuel.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Okay, will do. A new fuel filter sounds a lot better than any of our previous suspicions I must admit!

Tony, would you do me a favor and send me your address and payable detail in a message (or post it here). I'd like to send you some money for all your help. I know all the guys on this forum appreciate your expert advice and I'm sure your rarely compensated for it. Assuming a new filter gets me back on the water you probably just saved me a couple hundred dollars at the shop.

Thanks again.
Jeremy

 

[Dr Honda]

That's a nice offer... but let make sure your prob is better first.



Oh... since we are thinking you have some water in your fuel... buy a jug of Sta-Bil Marine fuel stabilizer (the blue version) and give it an extra heavy dose. I would also add a little oil to the main fuel, to make sure the pumps are lubed, and help prevent any corrosion.

This is one of the problems with our new fuels. The alcohol can cause a phase separation. The Marine Sta-Bil will help force the water back into suspension, and purge it.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Done, with the Sta-bil at least. I had a jug of that stuff left over from winter last year.

How much is a "little" oil in the gas tank? I think I'm at 3/4 of a tank right now so about 30 gallons.

 

[Dr Honda]

1/2 oz per gal should be good.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Okay, new fuel filter in hand, and I bought two new sets of spark plugs while I was out - no idea how old the existing set is. Guy at the shop suggested I reconnect the old fuel filter and run the engine on the hose for a little while to clear any water that's still in the system before connecting the new filter. Same with the plugs, don't change them until the water is clear.

He said that if I get water in the fuel again that you can use the filter a bit like a water syphon. Run the engine till its full, unscrew it, dump it out, rinse & repeat. You agree?

Either way I think I'll be adding some Sta-Bil at each fill up going forward...

Jeremy

 

[Dr Honda]

Yes......


You can run it some, and then dump it. BUT... the water is on the outer section, and I can't remember if there was a "Stop" valve built into it like an oil filter. if there is... then use the fitting on the bottom to drain it.

Just look in the new filter, and if you can see the filter in the outer holes... you can just dump it. If you see a rubber ring... then use the fitting. Don't worry about the plastic wearing... your new filter should have a new sender in the box.


Using Marine Sta-Bil is a good idea. Depending how active the summer is... I add it every other fill up.

 

[Striker4Hire]

She runs like a champ on the hose. We're going to put it in the lake later today. Will report.

 

[Striker4Hire]

Still having trouble but have only put a couple miles on so far. New fuel filter started going off after only 20-30 seconds at cruise speed. I must have 15-20oz of Sta-Bil in the tank. I dumped the filter 3 times and can't seem to run it for much more than a minute before it goes off again.

On the bright side the engine is running great when its not choking on water...

Friend of mine suggested I add "dry gasoline", specifically for removing water. Thoughts?

 

[Dr Honda]

You can try it. It's basically just IPA. (not the beer. LOL)


I wonder if you left your fuel cap off/loose, and the tank got a load of water. (??)


Since it's got so much water in it... you may want to drain off part of the tank, using the fuel hose. (water goes to the bottom, so you may be able to get it that way)


OR... you could add a second water trap to the system.



If it was mine... I would tip the nose up (on the trailer)... pull the feed hose from the lift pump... and drain off 3~5 gal into a fuel jug. That should suck out the water. THEN... shake the jug hard... then slowly feed it to your lawnmower.

 

[Striker4Hire]

We left the boat tied up to a friends dock last night and the waves must have mixed the fuel up better than it was before. I emptied the fuel filter one time first thing today and it ran great all afternoon after that. Best its ever run.

Would an over capacity ride cause water injestion? I had 8 adults and two kids on the boat the outing before I had trouble. I wonder if I was sitting too low in the water due to total weight.