1994 GTX – Issue - Need your Thoughts

[ardy]

Hello All,
Long time member, first time posting. I have always been able to get answers from the forum by searching. Very good forum. But this is a first time that I think I know what I need to do but need bit knowledge support in the background. Needed access to manuals (service, parts) and whatever else. But mostly knowledge. So I became a member, my guess is my dues are due……. I love my SeaDoo, purchased it blindly 4 years ago, I have been told the engine is very clean, I guess the last owner took care of it and I have been also, on stuff that are obvious.

SeaDoo Info:
Year = 1994
Model = 5862
Mot.nbr = 4244825
Hull Nbr: ZZN82733J394

ISSUE:
Started towards the end of last summer. The engine starts perfect and right away, in and out of water. At the first start I get a puff of blue smoke and once in the water in within 10 min or so it is less to none(The Smoke), I never had any oil issue because it mixes it and I keep adding when it needs it. It revs OK but as soon as I push full throttle it goes like it should but in 20 sec or so it bogges down to coast speed(Sometimes less than 10 sec, and some times right away), the engine doesn’t die it just idles…. I do this for several times then it is ok and takes off to top speed of 35 (first I got this top speed was around 45, but got lessen as years pass) but it revs between 25 and 35 back and forth and sometimes goes back to idle. It feels it is not getting the fuel it needs. So I changed All filters the in line and Assembly filters, I also drained the old Gas and put new gas(for this season), I also cleaned the carb(not rebuilt) the filter arrester and spark plugs. With all that it got a bit better but the real issue is still there. and yes, I also have the Gray fuel lines, I guess I saw a lot of comments abt them.

From what I have been reading, it all points to rebuilding the carb. I am not a mechanic but do OK with tools and such, I don’t have an issue as long as I get my hand on service manual and people I can ask questions. My first step is to see what you guys think? So please give me your thoughts…..

Thanks
Ardy

 

[soccerdad]

Yep it does sound like a fuel issue. And yes, those gray lines have to go. It is easy to do. Just remove them one at a time. You do not have to replace the vent lines. Pay special attention to make sure all connections are tight and that the filter/water separator is tight. These things suck the fuel from the tank, all the way through the selector switch and filter to the carb. If ANY air leaks into the system, it can cause what you are seeing. Of they just can be plugged up. Clean or replace the fuel selector as well. Rebuilding the carbs is not hard. Just use real Mikuni kits and you should also replace the needles and seats. Tons of info here on rebuilding them. you can do it with just a spray can of carb cleaner. (wear safety glasses). Good luck. And if that does not work, just hang some garlic over the ski for a week and that will certainly fix it! (I've been through Gilroy several times...)

 

[Dr Honda]

Hello All,
.................

From what I have been reading, it all points to rebuilding the crab. I am not a mechanic but do OK with tools and such, I don’t have an issue as long as I get my hand on service manual and people I can ask questions. My first step is to see what you guys think? So please give me your thoughts…..

Thanks
Ardy

Crab issues Hu??? Just cook them !!!


LOL


Sorry... couldn't resist.


Yes... it's a carb issue. in 94... you may not have had the Tempo hoses... but if you do... they all need replace, the fuel select valve, and carbs cleaned.


DO NOT KEEP RUNNING IT THIS WAY !!!!!!!!!! basically, it's going lean, and in turn... you are over heating the piston crowns, and starving the engine of oil. (it takes the fuel to transport the oil into the engine)

 

[ardy]

Thanks for the thoughts. it seem my work is cut out for me. so I better get started. I figure since I am tearing this apart I as might as well change all the fuel lines. here is another question....is this the right kit for my rebuilt. How do I know which engine size is mine...
http://www.jetskiplus.com/seadoo-dual-genuine-mikuni-carb-rebuild-kit-needle-seat-base-gasket-gtx-94.html

 

[Dr Honda]

Yes... that's the right kit... but it's expensive. Most of the time, you don't really need anything other than a good cleaning. So, I always recommend taking them apart, and then order what you need.

Before I closed my shop... I would rebuild carbs, and generally wouldn't need more than $10 worth of replacements.

 

[tkarvelis]

On the 95 there is a sticker on the front of the Magneto cover near the head. It should say on it a number of CC.

DO NOT run it lean. I changed all my fuel lines, and the carb is not adjusted right. I now have a top end rebuild in my future

Carb rebuild are not bad. Make sure it is factory. I have read where SBT are not good. People reccomend OSD.com a lot. I used them, and Nick was great to work with.

 

[ardy]

OK all, Ordered the Rebuild Kit. I start tearing this apart today as soon as I get home from work. I really do appreciate you guys help thus far. I am sure I will be asking Questions as I go through this. I need to order All fuel lines also. Dr Honda, I decided to order the full kit, yes you are right it is expensive, but I thought for past 4 years I have not spend a penny on this other than regular stuff, it deserves it, + if I need it it's there and if not it will be spare for the future. Let the adventure start. Should be fun. I will be posting pics as I progress. I figure it would be a good resource for Others Like me.

 

[WhiskeyD]

I would also do a compression check to see where you stand

 

[ardy]

Question, The service manual has two sizes for the Oetiker Clamps (8 and 13)


If the fuel hose size is 6mm what would be the right size for the clamp. and is it actually two sizes. I have found some on McMaster-Carr. I like the Tongue and Groove, it is easear to work with in tight spaces..

 

[MC87SS]

1/4" Rubber automotive fuel line is all you need.
I got these Stainless Steel hose clamps from Amazon, they were good quality.

EDIT:
For some reason it won't let me post the link.
Do a search for:
Adjustable 9mm-16mm Stainless Steel Worm Gear Hose Clamps 20 Pcs

 

[Dr Honda]

1/4" Rubber automotive fuel line is all you need.


.............

Yep. But the stainless hose clamps are hard to find at the auto parts store. If you head over to Home Depot... you can get stainless hose clamps, in bags of 20 for great price.

 

[ardy]

I never thought 4 bolts could be such a pain ------ HELP

Well I got the Air Intake assembly off, fairly easy. I thought man this is not that bad. Got the fuel hoses off (labeling them of course). Man I be done by the weekend, I thought. Than the BOLTS, oh my god such a pain in a *&^(*&^%.:banghead::banghead: I tried everything I knew how, not enough room to wrench this at all. can't throw a socket on it either. So I stopped before damaging stuff. Is there a Special tool out there to get to this? for those of you who took this out. How did you do it? if there is special tool can somebody point me to it. I really appreciate it.



Thanks
Ardy

 

[RodInEscondido]

BTW, in the 3rd pic in your initial post shows that you have a 657 engine. Model 5862 identifies it as 94 gtx, which you already knew.

Regarding the carb nuts ... first thing to do is pack some old rags under the carbs to catch the nut/washer that WILL fall down under there, they usually target that space under the engine where they will be recovered only when the engine is lifted out. There are a bunch of folks out here that have much more experience and may have better ideas, but the only way I have found success is to use an end wrench (sometimes stubby will work better) to loosen all of them then lift the carb a little, loosen a little, lift, loosen, catch the parts as they fall towards the bilge.

 

[ardy]

Thanks for reply, I did try the end wrench, no luck, I don't know abt other models, mine the space is really constricted. I have to try the stubby today once I get home that might work. Been reading a bunch of forum posts and articles. The shop manual suggests taking the Rotary Valve(RV) cover off. to get better access to the bolts. I might have to do that, I will take a look at it when I get home today. I wonder if somebody in this forum with the same model have to say. I will post my finding as I go through this.

and you are absolutely right in regards to age and treachery.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Get a cheap wrench and a grinder. Make the wrench thinner. If need be, you can put a slight bend right near the end or at the tines themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RodInEscondido]

Taking the rv cover and carb(s) off as a unit will make life easier. Then as long as you are there, go ahead and change the small oil lines from the oil pump to the rv - 3/32 tygon seems to be the ticket, usually found as fuel line for small engines: lawnmower shop.

 

[ardy]

Rotary Valve Cover - Question.

OK finally got it off the body:drool5:, Had to bend my own tool, it helped. OK I have couple of questions. Rotary valve came off as I separated the cover. Timing is not an issue pretty straight forward. I do have couple of questions.

• The service manual suggests applying SEA-DOO injection oil on rotary valve before reassembling rotary valve cover. What substitute can I use, what do you guys suggest?

• 
  Oil pump flange has this two oil injection lines(very small, 1/8"? or 3/16"?). I found some fuel lines, usually used for weed wacker carbs, it is rates at fuel and chemical resistant.
  Can fuel lines be used for Oil injection lines?
  The clamp used for these I think is re-usable, Haven't been able to find such small clamp yet any Ideas?
  
  The Oil pump has an O-ring that seems to be good but doesn't hurt to replace. Any Idea as to where I can get that. Rivamotorsports don't list it , ebay?
  

• 
  I Think the O-Ring and the Rubber ring on the Rotary valve cover still good, but Coming this far I think it is good idea to replace them while I am at it. Any Idea where I can get these, Rivamotorsports don't have them in their parts list. Any Idea where else, ebay?
  

Really do Appreciate you all for suggestions and help.

 

[RodInEscondido]

As said above, 3/32 fuel line for small engines (weed wacker fits the description) for the oil injection lines. A lot of people use the best quality tie-wraps, I use .020 safety wire wrapped around the small oil lines and .025 safety wire on the fuel lines; finesse is the name of the game with the wire, not much pressure needed as there is little to no pressure in the oil lines. I can take a picture if a visual will help.

 

[ardy]

Thanks for the reply, no picture needed yet, I think I have just the medicine for this. Can't wait to finish this project. Man those carbs are pretty dirty

 

[ardy]

the rebuild s done.... all went ok, with some minor difficulties. the carb is back in, i started the engine. can you guys give me procedure and steps to tune the carb.

 

[jjsinaz]

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?40380-Carburetor-Adjustments