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Seadoo XP 2000 will not go over 4000rpm in water reving fine out of water to 7000rpm

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Caloute

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Hello to all the good helpers out there,

More or less this is a continuation of this thread:

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?47402-Carburetor-Questions&p=255531#post255531

...but with new problems which I have spent days on the net looking for a solution, and even similar threads always seems to end before the person who needed the help stop all communication and responding, obviously they get the solution but forget to report back on the forum of what it was.

The model is Seadoo XP 2000

Changed the grey line, to new black lines, rebuilt the carb with new filters and parts from corresponding rebuild kit etc...

Problem 1 Dess post, and no two beeps when key was placed over, resolved by fitting new Dess post, I guess over time the magnet in it just got stuck or something...anyways resolved.

Problem 2 zip tie stuck between carb and engine, causing engine to rev high out of control, resolved, silly employee of mine error when mounting back the carb, managed to get a zip tie stuck in there.

Problem 3 exhaust leak between the main exhaust and the second part of the exhaust, apparently steel ring between the two exhausts was slight bent, although we put exhaust high temp red gasket putty and kind of fixed the bet, does not seem to leak anymore or least not apparently.

The major problem left now, is it will not go over 4000rpm in water, will rev to 7000rpm on hose today.

The problem and the trials:

- On first trial in water will not go over 3500rpm, pulling the chock about 5 millimetres would make it go slightly better, but would bog down to a dead stop if accelerating too much past a certain point, would die before WOT.

On second trial in water, cleaned the spark plugs and would go a bit better up to 4000rpm, couldn’t remember if it bogged down on WOT, but was not revving over 6000rpm on the hose

- On third trial, changed to new spark plugs, but not the BR8ES as Ii could not find them where I live, on water would not go over 4000rpm, but this 4000rpm would be at WOT and no more bogging, slightly better with chock pulled 5 millimetres, may be 100rpm better, on the hose would rev to 7000rpm which might be hitting the limiter. So all in all was running better in a sense than first trial.

So far not sure what is going on...on low rev ski seems to go normal, no problem in starting it either, is just not getting over 4000rpm and not over 20mph on water. It does not feel abnormal at low rpm, is just acting as it should, as soon as I WOT hit 4000rpm and that is it.

What you have to know, and what I tried:

- There might be chances that employee left clothing tissue in the secondary exhaust when using it as a plug for the putty he was removing not to fall in the exhaust. (He is not sure), water still coming out of exhaust though...would think if there was something stuck in exhaust would have end up in cylindrical box at the back of the ski.

- Fuel baffle not sending signal to the fuel gauge, even though I replaced the little floater thing inside with a new one, wouldn’t see why this be connected to my problem, but then again...if it is a fuel delivery problem. The fuel gauge is working when I run a loop on its plug. If XPs have a limp mode, which i do not think they have, I would then probably say may be it is that due to the fuel baffle being electrically dead...???Not sure of that one, may be you have an opinion on it?

- Inspected the water intake and no obstruction of any kind, it is clear as pure water.

- At idle on hose battery gives 12.6ish to 12.7ish volts, so rectifier not toasted i assume, if they have a rectifier.

- Could it be broken reed petals for some reason?

- Could it be problem with RAVE valve which is probably an easier check that pulling the exhaust.

- Could it be due to some errors in connecting the new fuel line at carb or baffle level, also changed 2 check valves which i am sure where in correct direction.

- Could it be the carb, even though pretty sure all screws where reset to original settings, could it be throttle cable not pulling enough? Run the same wether on reserve or normal, so not a switch problem.

- Should I try the ¼ trim of spark plug wire technique as read on a few forum? Coils etc all look brand new in the box!!! This ski looks brand new, i am sure as less than 20 hours, never really been used

- Could it be a leak in the drive shaft and I how do I check this.

- Could it be an unplug electrical wire?

I have not done cylinders compression checks, nor carb pop off test, as I do not have these devices to check, could someone recommend some model I can find on ebay and the correct one for the Xp cylinders and car.

Employee is on the verge of being fired (But not because of this), so I have to put the mechanical clothes again, I really need to check the easy thing first and then if it does not work start to pull apart the exhaust, which I am trying not to.

There is another thing I wanted to check, I have replaced all the oil in the oil tank, but because I found some kind of oil goo, I wanted to check the drain plug of the pump (I managed to replace the oil and not have air in the main line), but checking the drain plug drain flow, it seems to be very very slow to flow, there is some air spaces in the 2 small lines, and the flow in this resemble a clock needle as the way their advance and from time to time seems to have air space, I try opening the throttle of the pump manually at WOT when the engine idle, I see the oil advance but with this bit by bit movement, no matter how long I do this, it does not seem to get rid of small air space in the line...is this normal?

Thank you guys, feel free to quote what you can help with, will respond to questions and will post back if solution is found...so to help others, this ski has been stored for a long period, and I am struggling to get it to back, hopefully will eventually...

Caloute
 
Wow, that's a pretty tall order. I think the first thing to do is get a compression reading. Take it with a cold engine and throttle open. The compression should be close to 135psi. All you need is an automotive type tester, personally I have a gauge from Harbor Freight, mine works great but others have complained about the accuracy.

Lou
 
Thanks to both,

As soon as I get a compression gauge will do.

I was hoping it was not the reeds so I did not have to take everything apart, but if it turns out to be them then at least this might get resolved. Not sure why they would be damaged as apparently before the bad fuel lines problem the ski worked fine, then again few years without running might get things deteriorated.

Thanks
 
I was thinking I will start to check for exhaust obstruction, which I read can cause back compression, so if this silly employee of mine left the tissue cloth in there might explain the phenomenon.

Caloute
 
So far,

Exhaust off, no obstruction it seems, pushed tie wire all the way to the end cylindrical box and seems nothing blocking.

Reed valves, cleaned, no petals broken as good as new.

Flashed the oil pump, the two small lines, will change oil filter and bleed the oil system of air later

I noticed the main fuel filter had small residue on the screen, I did prviously emptied the tank and cleaned it, as well as changed the line. I am keen on taking off the baffle again and check it, should i install another inline fuel filter before the carb, so I can check fuel delivery? For now I am expecting somehow the carb to be the culprit, I will check all the lines again, and flash them if I need too...I am way too deep into it.

Checked the wear ring, seemed allright, but would like to take the grate of, so i can touch and see if it is allright.

Will start to open the carb this afternoon.

How do I check if the bilge pump is working?

Caloute
 
You really need to take a compression test before going much further. I would hate to see all the work you've done to be in vain.

If the compression test shows good, then clean the RAVES. If they are crapped up, they will not open and close properly. If I remember correctly the rave valves open around 5000rpms.
Check the condition of the O rings on the rave valves and replace if needed.
 
You really need to take a compression test before going much further. I would hate to see all the work you've done to be in vain.

If the compression test shows good, then clean the RAVES. If they are crapped up, they will not open and close properly. If I remember correctly the rave valves open around 5000rpms.
Check the condition of the O rings on the rave valves and replace if needed.

Hi Jesse, thanks for your reply would love to do compression test, but hard to find the equipment on the island I am on, will check the RAVE definitely, will clean carb as well

Caloute
 
Actually checked a place and they do have the compression testing kit for about $100!

Opened the RAVE plastic cap and thing seems to spring well, will go further into it later.

So took the opportunity to change oil in line filter, but then got a bit more into it, and wanted to fill the 2 small lines...I thought I would blow in the oil tank and open the pump throttle and the oil would flow in the small line...but I guess it does not work this way, as I could not get oil to go in the small lines...I thought pump must be blocked, so I got the 2 lines out and connect a syringe to one of the nozzle and try to suck it by still blowing in the oil tank and holding the throttle open, not a single drop came out, so I figured out, that the pump must not work like I thought it did...anyone for a short explanation on how it works??? Thanks or is it that somehow the oil pump is obstructed.

Cal
 
At this point... there isn't any reason to even check anything else.

What you have described is either low compression, or a broken reed. Since you checked the reeds... the compression is next.

If the tool is expensive, or hard to get where you are at... put it on the trailer, and go to a local shop, and ask them to check it. If you show up with a charged battery, and the spark plugs out... it will literally take 5 minutes to do. (and without any other tools)
 
The pump isn't obstructed, it just doesn't allow flow to pass through under pressure or vacuum.

To prime the lines, pull and ground the plug wires to the grounding posts, remove the spark plugs and turn the engine over with the starter while holding the throttle at WOT.

IMPORTANT NOTE: Use the starter in burts, say 5-10 seconds on then 30-60 seconds off. It is important to ensure you don't over heat the starter motor from over use.

The fact that the engine runs better out of water generally points to a fuel issue. One there is a load on the engine from the water it requires much more fuel to achieve the same RPM.

Remove the carbs and ensure they HS and LS needles are set to the correct specs. Also make sure everything is assembled correctly and clean. If your employee was careless enough to leave a zip tie in the wrong spot and paper in the exhaust it is possible that something was missed in the carbs as well.

I have been known to miss things here an there (even recently) when working on my own ski and I have been doing this type of work for a while.

Good luck and keep us posted.
 
Dr Honda,

I know from the forums reading on the subject, that doing a comp test is pretty much the standard procedure, but as it go for me once I get the exhaust out, whatever is beneath I might as well go thru all the checks, the ski is pretty new, and was on land for a while, the grey lines were the problems for it to restart, as I do not think anyone in my family got it to even to start it after that stay on land...I really doubt there is anything wrong with the engine itself, although I will end up doing the com test if I cannot get it to work properly.

Thanks Krisppy for letting me know about the pump, it is all clear to me now, I also do start to think it is a fuel delivery problem, there is no problem starting it, may be there was some dust/crap in the new fuel lines, that found their way in the carb, seems like the high speed part is affected but definitely not the bottom end. Tomorrow I work on that beast will definitely, let you know guys how I go.

Thank you
Caloute
 
Your XP is still 13 years old....things wear out, especially in a 2-stroke motor. Honestly if it made it this long and is still running that's good. You are going to have to bite the bullet and either take your XP somewhere or get harbor freight to ship you one. Seems to me like you are checking everything except the obvious. Seems to me like its a waste to fix and replace every little thing on your ski when you overlook the most obvious to begin with.
 
Agree 100x. Why waiste any more time/money until you know compression numbers. The experts on here are great, but they will not waiste time going over every detail with you until you check the compression and verify that the motor itself is either good or bad. Do this and report back
 
Agreed. Check Compression. Dont do another thing until you do that. Then clean your raves. Hell most auto parts stores have compression testers you can rent for FREE with a deposit,
 
Your XP is still 13 years old....things wear out, especially in a 2-stroke motor. Honestly if it made it this long and is still running that's good. You are going to have to bite the bullet and either take your XP somewhere or get harbor freight to ship you one. Seems to me like you are checking everything except the obvious. Seems to me like its a waste to fix and replace every little thing on your ski when you overlook the most obvious to begin with.

Hi Gsxkid, yes I know things wear off either from using them and weather tend to deteriorate things...Ski as more likely less than 20 hours, it was really not used at all. There is not much more I can replace now, coz I can't just go to the shop and buy part, coz there is no parts here, the only thing for me is to check and clean, like i said once I have the exhaust off I might as well double check everything, clean, then put back together, and do that compression make everybody happy...still think it is a fuel problem.

Caloute
 
Agreed. Check Compression. Dont do another thing until you do that. Then clean your raves. Hell most auto parts stores have compression testers you can rent for FREE with a deposit,

Just check where I live!!! But yes I ended up seeing one for $100, so either I buy it here or either I buy in Australia...definitely will get it, so everybody can see the compression I am getting.

Caloute

Caloute
 
Agree 100x. Why waiste any more time/money until you know compression numbers. The experts on here are great, but they will not waiste time going over every detail with you until you check the compression and verify that the motor itself is either good or bad. Do this and report back

I will definitely report back once I do, let me put back everything first.

Caloute
 
and do that compression make everybody happy...still think it is a fuel problem.

Caloute

i have the same exact problem with the ski only going 4K in water and 6900 on land, but i also have a hesitation when i give it full throttle on my 1996 gsx, my compression is good. i was thinking it could possibly be carb/fuel/pop-off pressure (my own thought, I'm not real mechanical..) or fuel regulator valve

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?59493-1996-GSX-Bog-Carb-Fuel

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?43846-how-do-i-test-a-water-regulator-valve
 
So far I had put back 98% of the ski back, started and no go, oops would be better with the spark plug caps on the spark plugs (As opposed to the ground device), so got the caps on the spark plugs, and it started after a few more try (I guess gas had to reach the carb), to my amazement the idle was just right to 3000rpm, so manually opened the oil pump to WOT to bleed the small lines which I had pre-filled so not much air any way, revved it a couple of time and and it felt very powerful on the hose, just wondering if it is a psychological thing or not, tomorrow this babe is going to go back in water for a test.

I cleaned the rave valves they had black residue on them, I don't think they would have caused the issue though.
I noticed something though when cleaning the carb (Which was clean anyway), is that one of the needle seemed slightly stuck to its tube sleeve (For lack of name of this tube) when I touched it to get it off, could this had been the issue (If it turns out to be resolved). Like I said for now it seems powerful, or is it me trying to convince myself this is working, will see tomorrow.

Will let you know how I go.

I still need to figure out if the bilge pump is working, somehow how can i test it?, I need to inspect the water cylindrical box a the end of the exhaust, but I notice to rubber piece of pipe that has a shape of U that connects it to the last funny part of the exhaust is very hard to get off from the box, even though took the screw collar on it...any easy way to ease it up...??

Best regards,
Caloute
 
On land, tilt the front of the ski up. Install drain plugs. Fill rear of ski with 3-4" of water. Leave the key OFF. press start. If the electric pump shoots water out the back, good. If not. Fix it. Also remove and clean those black scuppers. They are a pain to dig out, but they get clogged with oil fast and don't work. If they are kept clean, they work GREAT. That electric pump moves almost a gallon a minute, it's slick, but they do wear out.

Also, never rev a cold engine. The pistons are actually made oval shaped to fit in the round holes. There is more material at the areas where the rods meet them, so when they heat up, they become round. Always warm up before a hard run. Same as working out :)

Get us some pics too. The 2000 XP has a cool color scheme.
 
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