??'s on First boat purchase.

[Charlesdev3]

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and the boating world. I am very interested in the Sea-Doo boats. I love the styling of them and have always liked the jet drive systems. I have played around on many ski's. I am looking at a 2006 Challenger 180 and the other is confusing to me because they list it as a 2006 Speedster 200 but the photos clearly show a 2009 or 2010 210 Challenger. Maybe the mislabeled it wrong or don't know what they have.

Well here are my questions;
1) What are the normal maintenance costs and procedures on these two style boats?
2)What are the known issues?
3)What boat would you prefer?
4)Are the price points on these two boats fare?

Any other information provided would be great. This is our first boat purchase. Myself and my family (wife and 2 younger boys).
I will include descriptions and a web link to the two boats I am looking at below.

2006 Sea-Doo Challenger 180 asking price of 12,499
Bimini Top
Racing Style Bucket Seats
Burnt Orange Interior
Tow Post
Hydro Turf Matting
Clarion Sound System
4 Tec Supercharged Intercooled Rotax Engine
link to the site is http://www.swrvandmarine.com/viewitem.php?id=854&basename=watercraft

2006 Sea-Doo Speedster 200 (i think its 2009 / 2010 Challenger 210 SE)
Twin 155 hp Rotax 4-TEC
Wake tower with bimini top
All extras the SE comes with.
http://www.southaustinmarine.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=0663067X1K28K2014J1I14I33JAMQ3731R0&veh=24216&pov=3475363

 

[Coastiejoe]

I own two ski's. One has the 155 and the other has the 255 with the SC.

I LOVE the power and performance of the 255. That said, the 155 engine is very nice. You can get 400 hrs on the engine with proper general maintenance. With the SC engine you have required maintenance on the SC every 100 hrs unless you get the update kit and then you will get 200 hrs out of it. Further, the SC prior to 2009 had ceramic washers that MUST be swapped out no matter the hours as they chip apart and destroy the engine.

I am not trying to talk you out of the SC engine, just giving you needed information. As I said, I absolutely LOVE my SC ski and will own one forever no matter the cost to maintain it.

I would think the twin 155 would be a very nice setup...

Hopefully someone that has ridden in both setups will call and give you practical knowledge on ride and comfort.

 

[timeman]

I have a 2006 Challenger (had it since new) I have not had any problems with it other than normal maintenance. It's a great boat one that when you're on board, feels a lot bigger than it's 18.5 size would indicate. Rated for 8 people but if all 8 are adults don't plan on pulling any skiers or tubers. The main issue with the 06 (and into 07) was the supercharger came with ceramic washers. Seadoo recommended replacing them with stainless steel at 100 hours. and even after you change out the ceramics, the supercharger requires periodic rebuilding. The boat handles fine, once you get used to the jet drive, there are a few comments on these boards about problems being able to pull up to or back away from the dock, but that's nothing the normal learning curve for jet drives won't fix in a weekend. My only design complain is she carries her bow a little too low, if you have people sitting in the bow, and you are idling out past the no-wake zone you have to be vigilant for in-coming waves, it's not that hard to take one over the bow.
Price points seem to vary wildly with geographic area. Where I live my challenger blue-books around $15K, but used boats rarely command high blue book, does any gear come with it? vests, tubes, skis, first aid kit, anchor extinguisher can quickly make a cheap boat kinda expensive. Shop around, look and compare a few boats , you'll quickly get a handle on where the price should be.

Good luck, and happy boating!

 

[Charlesdev3]

Thanks for all the information so far. I have read about the ceramic washers and that is what is leading me more towards the 210. Since it has two 155 engines. Plus the added size and features are an added factor. Both of these are from dealers and they would include some safety devices needed. Fire extinguishers, anchor mainly.

What are the costs for the routine maintenance for either boat, whether is be 100 or 200 hours? I know it would vary by region but would like to get a general area. How about fuel costs? Spending all day boating around pulling tubes and just putting around, would I be using an entire tank of fuel?

Again thanks for you guys help so far. Had no idea you guys would respond so quickly. I look forward to joining the Sea-Doo family.

 

[timeman]

I've been boating all my life, and I'm an old fart, No matter what kind of boat, there's a certain, instant comradery. I've found, (I bet you will too), boaters to be some of the friendliest, most helpful folks there are.

My boat,(single engine 215 SC) came with a free 3 year service policy. The dealer charged about $320. for the annual service which consisted of an oil and filter change, installation of 3 new spark plugs, and a multi point check. When I got my last of the free ones I asked how much it would run once I was paying cash and it wasn't going through the prepaid plan, assumed he was ripping off the factory or insurance co. that sold the pre paid plan, I was shocked when he said it would still run $320.00
I found Seadoo annual service kit for $69.00 (free delivery) on EBAY which has the OEM oil, filter, "o" rings and new spark plugs, so my annual cost is less than $100.00. My dealer charges $350 labor and $300 full parts for a supercharger rebuild. Other than that, my boat has been pretty bullet proof. I've been lucky to avoid sucking up any rocks, though getting a hard stick jammed is a pain, but one easily cleared, if you suck up lots of debris you'll be needing a new wear ring from time to time, I have replaced mine once in 7 years, think it ran $150-200. The only other mechanical issue I've had was my nuetral switch went out, after reading this is fairly common, I chose to simply bi-pass the switch.

A "day" on the lake for us usually consists of 4-6 hours of actual pulling and driving, I usually run through just under half a tank give or take conditions and load. I've had days where I used more, never a full tank, but the single 215 S/C can get pretty thirsty if you're pulling around big guys.

Again, best of luck....

 

[RFoster130]

Those 2 boats are going to be totally different. Jumping from a 180 to a 210 will feel like a huge difference. The 180 will be cramped with 5-6 adults. The 210, can easily handle 6-8. The twin 155's are great engines and are very easy to maintain. No supercharger issues or expense.

I was in the same boat last year. I had a smaller 16' speedster and wanted to upgrade. I compared the 180 to the speedster 200. I went out on both boats. They are totally different. That extra 2 feet makes it feel like a totally different boat. The 180 i went out on only had the 215HP and I wasnt happy with it at all really. The 200 I ended up buying has the 310. On the 20 ft it performs very well. I would think the 210 is very similar. I dont see a price listed for the 210...but if it were me and I had those 2 to pick from, id pick the 210, hands down.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I would consider the type of water you plan on running, if shallow the jet might be the best choice. If deep water and you plan on cruising around most all day pulling skiers, tubes, etc., racking up lots of engine time, a stern drive will be easier on your fuel bill by a long shot, depending on how much power you buy.

I run jet boats to avoid the sand bars out here, thus can pretty much go where I want without having to worry about striking something. My old stern drive could run all day on 10 gallons it seemed like, but I kept hitting sand bars. I don't ride around all day anymore, just to the favorite swimming cove and back, so fuel costs are under control despite the jet being the most thirsty boat out there aside from maybe a V8 Mercruiser.

One other feature I really appreciate about the seadoos is their all fiberglass construction, I've has my dair share of boats made with a glass over wood stringer and plywood transom, they'll rot out on you eventually, usually faster than you might expect! A stern drive will easily run 2,000hrs+ with regular maintenance, rarely do I see them get worn out, usually pure neglect is what kills them.

 

[Charlesdev3]

[MENTION=15565]RFoster130[/MENTION]: Thanks for the input. I would like the more room. The price for the 210 is near the 30's and the 180 is 12,500. So the price difference is huge for me. That is why I want to know if there will be a huge difference.
[MENTION=2932]sportster[/MENTION]: I know what you mean about them being thirsty motors. I would assume that the twin 155 engines would be more so than the 215 s/c engine. Also since it would be smaller and lighter I would assume it would be better on fuel. Maybe I am wrong.

I keep hearing horror stories about the s/c in these boats. Is the maintenance really that bad and expensive? I know about replacing the washers (not sure how much that would run) but not about the services needed to be done every 200 hours. Not even sure how long that would be in months or years time frame. What is the average time used in a summer in florida?

Thanks again for all your input.

 

[Coastiejoe]

[MENTION=15565]RFoster130[/MENTION]: Thanks for the input. I would like the more room. The price for the 210 is near the 30's and the 180 is 12,500. So the price difference is huge for me. That is why I want to know if there will be a huge difference.
[MENTION=2932]sportster[/MENTION]: I know what you mean about them being thirsty motors. I would assume that the twin 155 engines would be more so than the 215 s/c engine. Also since it would be smaller and lighter I would assume it would be better on fuel. Maybe I am wrong.

I keep hearing horror stories about the s/c in these boats. Is the maintenance really that bad and expensive? I know about replacing the washers (not sure how much that would run) but not about the services needed to be done every 200 hours. Not even sure how long that would be in months or years time frame. What is the average time used in a summer in florida?

Thanks again for all your input.

There is a substantial difference in the boats. It comes back to mostly ride and comfort. 2 foot in a boat can a HUGE difference. The ride can be like comparing a Pinto to a Cadillac. They both go and will get you there, one will do it smoother and much more comfortably.

Fuel difference really won't be to big I would think. A single larger engine is gong to work somewhat hard not matter what. It is just the way it is. It will do the job fine, just will be doing all the load all the time.

Twins normally work about 1/3rd easier when comparing apples to apples. If you keep your foot (Throttle) off the max, you will find the fuel use to be acceptable.

Is there maintenance with SC's? Yes. But it is not a big deal, not at all. I have owned my skis for 3 years now and have not hit the 100 hr mark yet. Of course I live in Ohio and my season is limited, but i get out when I can.

You HAVE to assume if you buy the SC engine that it has the ceramic washers in it still. Do NOT take someones word. If you do not have paperwork confirming they have been swapped out, then you will need to do so ASAP.

This gives you options. Do just the washers for a relatively minimal charge or do the major rebuild now and be good for years (in most cases). If you do the rebuild get the updated shaft (09 and later setup) and most recent rebuild kit. This will give you longevity. And it changes the rebuilds to every 200 hrs.

Do not be afraid of a SC. When they are setup right, they are very nice to have. As I said above, I truly doubt I will ever own another ski without one. They make a HUGE difference.

 

[Charlesdev3]

Thanks for your help on the SC. It looks like I am going to be going with the 180 as the 210 has sold. I won't be disappointed. I am just waiting for the final details of the sale and get an inspector over there to check everything out and really tell me if its ok to buy or not. I will keep everyone updated.