Has new engine, what else to consider?

[sed6]

I am considering purchasing an '02 Utopia with a 1yr old 10hr 240 EFI engine. The owner of 8 years says it was replaced due to 'water intrusion into the engine'. Specifically he believes a piston was damaged.

He says everything else is in great shape and the pictures support that. He's also willing to take it to the dealership for them to inspect it for me. I'm not sure my schedule will allow both a trip to the dealership and a sea trial. He's open to either. Which ones the better option?

Everything seems on the up and up but I'm worried about what else might break or need service or repair. He's unsure of the total hours, can the dealer tell me that without the original engine? If it's a 200+ hour boat is there something or things that normally break or need repair next?

Any other ideas or suggestions are appreciated!

-Scott

 

[Coastiejoe]

Nothing can replace a test drive per say.

Also, getting a compression test is very important. Any dealer can do a look-over but few will do a test drive.

If it were me, I would do a test drive that lasts about an hour. Normally any issue will show itself within 30 minutes. I would also do a compression test as it will tell you MUCH about the condition of the engine. If you do the compression test you need to do so with a cold engine, all plugs removed, spark wires grounded, full throttle.

 

[sed6]

How about hours? Any way to tell that once the engine's been replaced?

What kind of inspection to the jet drive can I perform at his house? What should I look for?

 

[Seadoobuddy]

calling [MENTION=16022]Dr Honda[/MENTION]

he will answer your question as he is the forum expert on mercs.....actually he is the expert on almost everything.

 

[Dr Honda]

calling [MENTION=16022]Dr Honda[/MENTION]

he will answer your question as he is the forum expert on mercs.....actually he is the expert on almost everything.

Was I called? (LOL)



As Coastijoe said........ Nothing like a test drive.


A dealer will simply give it a once over, and plug into the diagnostic port. They may not even do a compression check, unless it's asked for. AND... even the best mechanic can have a bad day. Oh... and an engine/drive system can look and sound good on the trailer... but you don't know the exact health, until there is a load on it.

So... take it for a water ride.

1) It should start reasonably easy cold.
2) It should idle
3) It should transition to full power without any stumbles/stalls,
4) There should be minimal cavitation.
5) It should shift F/N/R smooth.
6) Steering should be smooth.
7) After warning up, let it sit for a few min, and re-start.
8) Turn on every switch, and check for function.


Obviously, everything above depends on the price. If the price is low... don't nit-pick a few minor issues, or chips/gouges in the hull. (That's normal wear and tear)

The 240 EFI engine should run warm or cold the same. The EFI unit does very well with making a cold engine run. BUT... the 240 is a "Smokey" engine. So... on start up... expect a LARGE CLOUD !! Once warm... it should be able to idle with only a small amount of smoke. (pic below: you can see a small amount of smoke around the edge of the swim platform. I was idling for about 15 min at that point) But... better oils can minimize that. (Pennzoil XLF or Platinum seen to be the best for minimizing smoke)


As far as run time.... it's a moot point if the engine was replaced. The gear case in the drive can live for the life of the boat, assuming the oil is changed, and no water gets into it. And... the pump unit can be damaged regardless of time. Also... things like the control cables, and other parts have more to do with maintenance, that time.

If the engine was replaced with a regular "Rebuilt" power head... then the ECU would have been moved from the old engine, to the new engine, and all the history can be read out. If it was a "Merc OEM" power head... then the new engine would have come with a new ECU. In that case... it would only have the history of the new engine.

As far as the "200 hr" comment... that would still be a low hr boat. The Sportjet power heads are know to run for 400 to 700 hrs if maintained. The 240 has the shortest life... but that's because it spins 500~700 rpm more than the others. Mine had over 500 hrs on it (it came from a rental shop) I bought it with a bad engine, and it threw a rod. (one of the cap bolts broke)



Anyway... if it was a quality rebuild... it should last for a lot of years. (it seems like life time is more important than run time) Remember... a low hr boat, that is neglected, will require more $$$ in repairs than a high hr boat, that is maintained.

 

[sed6]

Thanks for the great info Dr.H! At a cost of $10k would you guess the engine was a rebuilt or new? Not that it matters. In addition to a compression check what else can I look for?

I recall a thread where someone posted a pic of the impeller and wear ring and mentioned some proper clearances. Just from the pic the guys here said it looked good. Is that easy to inspect? If there's a thread or two you can point me at that would be great. I tried searching for what I thought were good terms but the search here...seems to suck.

Appreciate the help!

 

[Coastiejoe]

Thanks for the great info Dr.H! At a cost of $10k would you guess the engine was a rebuilt or new? Not that it matters. In addition to a compression check what else can I look for?

I recall a thread where someone posted a pic of the impeller and wear ring and mentioned some proper clearances. Just from the pic the guys here said it looked good. Is that easy to inspect? If there's a thread or two you can point me at that would be great. I tried searching for what I thought were good terms but the search here...seems to suck.

Appreciate the help!

Impeller clearance should be no more than the width of a dime.

If you search in Google but include seadooforum.com the results are normally very good

 

[Dr Honda]

As Coastiejoe said.... The thickness of a dime. But... the tighter the better. This is why I recommend a water ride. Sometimes a wear ring that looks bad, can still make good thrust... and sometimes one that looks good, has cavitation issues. For a basic inspection... all you can do is look into the nozzle with a flashlight. AND... if you are feeling adventurous... you can crawl under it... and look up thought the intake grate.

Speaking of intake grates.... you will want to look at that too. The OEM grate is aluminum, and is on a hinge. Make sure it's not damaged !!! If any of the tines are bent, or missing... it will need replaced.


As far as the engine... it will be a rebuild, regardless of if it was a local shop, or Merc. It's just that the Merc powerhead is fully dressed, to make it faster for the shop doing the work.

 

[sed6]

Great info, thanks guys. I'm already suffering from 2ft-itis, sort of. Also considering a 21' foot boat that costs twice as much, won't fit into my garage, and my SUV isn't big enough to pull. Once friend says start small and upgrade later if boating suits my family. Another friend says go all in and finance the biggest boat I can afford. Which would you do?

 

[buckeye_paul]

Next boat I get will be a minimum 21' I/O with a cuddy cabin. Should have got one when I bought my Seadoo.

 

[sed6]

My wife just nixed the larger SUV idea so something under 3500 lbs is my limit. Guess this might be the wrong place to ask what everyone thinks about Yamaha's offering in a 10yr boat the same size.

I did ask the Utopia's seller to come down in price but he wouldn't. He said try back in a few weeks. Seems early winter here could be the right time to get a deal on a boat. Perhaps his will last until I can get a nice price. If not the wife said we can go to the boat show in Jan. I hear right after the boat show the market swells with used boats. Sound right?

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Dr Honda]

Buying used in the spring is DUMB !!!! All the prices are going to be high, because that's when the buyer's are out. The only real deals in the spring will be on new, old stock. BUT... even the dealers know it's the hot time for sales.

The real deals are at the end of the season. (basically, right now) In the used market... there are boats that haven't been used in a while, and/or people don't want to store them for the winter.


As far as Yamaha... I haven't played with enough of them boats to know. At one time, I was a die-Hard yamaha fan (Bikes, ATV's, Watercraft, generators, etc) But in 2005~2007 they were kind of F-ing their customers. In the R6, R1, and FZ6... they were having problems with the throttle position sensor, and they weren't fessing up to the problem. They would start to fail, and it would make the bike dangerous to ride. Also, it was expensive to replace. They didn't make it a recall until someone actually got hurt.

Since then... I kind of stayed away from Yamaha. (other than the older products)

 

[Coastiejoe]

I just have to reiterate Docs post.

Buy now, not spring. The exact same item you can buy now can be several hundreds to a thousand dollars more in the spring.

Much has to do with,,,
1). The end if the season.
2). Don't have to pay to winterize the ski/boat.
3). Don't have to pay or worry about storage.

Do take advantage if you can do so. Though it is colder to do a test ride. You really need to do so as once you buy it, you likely won't use it until next season.