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Cooked crank seals?
- Thread starter Mekanix
- Start date
- Status
I do not believe so. If there is lubrication for the seal RPM will have no bearing as mechanical things would fail before the seal as the seal is rated for the max RPM and temp of the engine.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What about 4000+- rpm for 45 minutes towing a stranded boat.?
I don't think the seals would get much oiling?
Just grasping at straws here for my midrange missing problem. I'm wondering if the seals are damaged and its only obvious at that rpm...
I don't think the seals would get much oiling?
Just grasping at straws here for my midrange missing problem. I'm wondering if the seals are damaged and its only obvious at that rpm...
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Even that would not hurt the seals by itself.
Running that long under a heavy load could put undue wear on the engine but I would not worry about the seals. If it is starving from lubrication enough to damage the seals you would have already lost a bearing or seized a piston.
Running that long under a heavy load could put undue wear on the engine but I would not worry about the seals. If it is starving from lubrication enough to damage the seals you would have already lost a bearing or seized a piston.
Yum yum clams 
This the 96 gsx. So far the other machines are working perfectly
Issue is around 4000 its misfiring like a lean backfire. 3500 is smoother and around 4500 it misses less but is still there untill 5000. From there up its all good.
I just tried another set of carbs and its the same issue at the same rpm.
At 4k more throttle makes it backfire worse. But push through it and its good or just rev quickly pased that and its good.
An entire engine would be the next thing id have to swap since ive swapped everything else.
This the 96 gsx. So far the other machines are working perfectly
Issue is around 4000 its misfiring like a lean backfire. 3500 is smoother and around 4500 it misses less but is still there untill 5000. From there up its all good.
I just tried another set of carbs and its the same issue at the same rpm.
At 4k more throttle makes it backfire worse. But push through it and its good or just rev quickly pased that and its good.
An entire engine would be the next thing id have to swap since ive swapped everything else.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
In a word... NO.
The only way you can damage them is lack of oil, or mechanical. (like sand, or rust on the crank)
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Hummm??
Well... Seal is protected in most places... and I have a shellfish allergy. (lol)
If you are actually having a backfire the only two causes would be a rotary valve/timing issue or an electrical issue.
You have already ruled out the carbs by trying a known good set.
An air leak will not be rpm specific. It will either leak or it will not although as the engine gets hot it could get worse as the metal expands a little.
You have already ruled out the carbs by trying a known good set.
An air leak will not be rpm specific. It will either leak or it will not although as the engine gets hot it could get worse as the metal expands a little.
Austrian Rotax
Active Member
Sry im not up to date on everything you have done to this ski but have you looked into the possibility that it has obsolete RAVE housings? im not sure if this update appies to the gsx and Im no expert by any stretch of the imagination lol but I heard that there are not only updated rave guillotines (slotted) but also updated rave housings and your problematic rpm range looks like this may or may not be it, I read in another thread about the updated housings solving some guys rpm issue in this range, and sry I cant find that thread again ill look more for it later 
but I swear there was talk about this update fixing something similar to this.
http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=360029
EDIT: NVM just found out this RAVE Housing issue only applies to the 1997 GSX,GTX,SPX
but I swear there was talk about this update fixing something similar to this.http://www.pwctoday.com/showthread.php?t=360029
EDIT: NVM just found out this RAVE Housing issue only applies to the 1997 GSX,GTX,SPX
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Raves are good and opening properly. They are actually closed the entire time this issue is happening. They only start to move at 6000+ when reving up slowly. But they do jump up if I give it throttle quickly.
Top end performance is all there. I mean from idle wot is instantaneous. I can also pull them up and it doesn't change the issue, it seems to cause a loss of power and tone in the exhaust but its still misfiring.
But around 1/4-1/2 throttle it feels and sounds like its misfiring or backfiring. If I jump up to 4500+ or let it go down to 3500 its better and smoother but nothing is stopping the throttle response. It doesn't hang, It just backfires when holding steady where it used to be perfectly smooth.
This issue started out without warning or without me changing anything.
As in from 2500 up it was smooth and rarely missed except the typical random miss all two stokes have.
Then slowly I heard more random misses as I cruised at lower speeds. It sounded like I fouled a plug which I thought would be an easy fix but changing them didn't make a difference. From there I started troubleshooting electrical and on to fuel and then mechanical.
Changed:
Raves
Coil
Wires
Plugs
Caps
Mpem from two piece to all in one unit
Rotary valve (wsm to OEM)
Head
Water regulator
Carbs
Voltage regulator
Stator and pickup
Rebuilt and cleaned carbs several times
Tried various jets and pop offs.
Removed the vts entirely
Then pulled the engine and checked squish which was not in spec but fixing that didn't change the problem.
Did leak down test while it was out. Came back 30 minutes later and lost only 1 psi! So I assumed it was great and seals were not the issue.
Checked wiring harness for breakdown or loose/ corroded connections at the engine connector and inside the front and rear boxes.
Checked fuel lines up to the tank.
Replaced water separator and seal
Replaced fuel selector
Pressure tested all lines and tank
Pressure tested rotary valve cavity
Tried new gas
Tried another rotary valve cover
Checked rotary timing again and again. My block actually has a line on the rotary face in the perfect spot that measures right when using a degree wheel.
Checked all water lines and fittings for blockage
Only thing I haven't done is remove the info center and tach. Which both tap into the ignitor signal wire..
Also I didn't do a suction test instead of a leak down test. Just to see if maybe the seals were leaking one way and not the other way.
Haven't checked the outer crank seals since rebuild but inner seals are good as it never smokes on startup like they do if the seals are bad.
So. Yeah I'm really lost. Short of trying my parts in another machine I've run out of my own parts to swap in.
Top end performance is all there. I mean from idle wot is instantaneous. I can also pull them up and it doesn't change the issue, it seems to cause a loss of power and tone in the exhaust but its still misfiring.
But around 1/4-1/2 throttle it feels and sounds like its misfiring or backfiring. If I jump up to 4500+ or let it go down to 3500 its better and smoother but nothing is stopping the throttle response. It doesn't hang, It just backfires when holding steady where it used to be perfectly smooth.
This issue started out without warning or without me changing anything.
As in from 2500 up it was smooth and rarely missed except the typical random miss all two stokes have.
Then slowly I heard more random misses as I cruised at lower speeds. It sounded like I fouled a plug which I thought would be an easy fix but changing them didn't make a difference. From there I started troubleshooting electrical and on to fuel and then mechanical.
Changed:
Raves
Coil
Wires
Plugs
Caps
Mpem from two piece to all in one unit
Rotary valve (wsm to OEM)
Head
Water regulator
Carbs
Voltage regulator
Stator and pickup
Rebuilt and cleaned carbs several times
Tried various jets and pop offs.
Removed the vts entirely
Then pulled the engine and checked squish which was not in spec but fixing that didn't change the problem.
Did leak down test while it was out. Came back 30 minutes later and lost only 1 psi! So I assumed it was great and seals were not the issue.
Checked wiring harness for breakdown or loose/ corroded connections at the engine connector and inside the front and rear boxes.
Checked fuel lines up to the tank.
Replaced water separator and seal
Replaced fuel selector
Pressure tested all lines and tank
Pressure tested rotary valve cavity
Tried new gas
Tried another rotary valve cover
Checked rotary timing again and again. My block actually has a line on the rotary face in the perfect spot that measures right when using a degree wheel.
Checked all water lines and fittings for blockage
Only thing I haven't done is remove the info center and tach. Which both tap into the ignitor signal wire..
Also I didn't do a suction test instead of a leak down test. Just to see if maybe the seals were leaking one way and not the other way.
Haven't checked the outer crank seals since rebuild but inner seals are good as it never smokes on startup like they do if the seals are bad.
So. Yeah I'm really lost. Short of trying my parts in another machine I've run out of my own parts to swap in.
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I have the housings without the recess and the older style raves without the grooves.
I have windows in the rave caps to see when they open.
[video=youtube;V6kjnpPvCXo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kjnpPvCXo[/video]
[video=youtube;qjcIXO2hSvA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjcIXO2hSvA[/video]
Latest, You can see there is no change in throttle response but holding throttle below 4500 is a problem.
[video=youtube;96mF3WJejYo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96mF3WJejYo&feature=youtu.be[/video]
It sounds much worse without the camera muffling it.
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Well, pulled the engine, took the mag side off, and found black gook on the seal and around it. I think I do in fact have 1 cooked seal
Also the surface of the lip has a wavy patern that looks like a scalloped tire tread.
So I'm wondering if the pto would be the same?? Thinking of pulling the flywheel to check it out.
New seal
Bad seal
When installing new seals like this do you add any lubrication as in white lithium grease or just 2 stroke oil or dry ?
Also the surface of the lip has a wavy patern that looks like a scalloped tire tread.
So I'm wondering if the pto would be the same?? Thinking of pulling the flywheel to check it out.
New seal
Bad seal
When installing new seals like this do you add any lubrication as in white lithium grease or just 2 stroke oil or dry ?
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Pulled the pto off and the seal on that end looks good. Well lubricated and the crank is polished where the seal rides. I don't think I'll change this one but still debating doing it since I'm already this far in lol.
On the mag side though the snout is scratched and haszy where the seal rides. I've managed to clean the snout quite well with 2000 grit sand paper so that there is almost a dull mirror finish. That should allow the new seal to seat in properly.
On the mag side though the snout is scratched and haszy where the seal rides. I've managed to clean the snout quite well with 2000 grit sand paper so that there is almost a dull mirror finish. That should allow the new seal to seat in properly.
Being a 96 with a backfire, I've got to say regulator/rectifier. I know you changed it but I'd unhook the red wire to it if it runs the same way when you get the motor back in.
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