Supercharger washer failure - should I expect to find fragments?

[KenSt]

I have just had my supercharger rebuilt for my 2003 GTX 4-Tec and learned that the original ceramic washers had failed and were missing from the SC, and I was informed that the parts were likely still inside the engine. I have pulled the engine out of the machine and have removed the front oil scavenger assembly and the rear PTO cover to search for washer fragments and inspect the inner parts for damage. There is no obvious damage to any of the housings. I have disassembled the oil pumps as well. This was the first time I have tackled a job like this, so it was quite the learning experience. I'll post my notes and pictures once I get everything put back together.

Now, my question for those with experience in this area. I haven't come across any chunks of washers and the front and back screens didn't have much in them. Should I have expected to find fragments, or would they have likely been mashed up by the oil pump? The oil filter itself has a fair amount of fine grit in the folds of the filter, but no real chunks. I am not sure what more I should be doing to locate fragments. In some other posts, I saw comments about splitting the motor to more fully clean things out, but is that really what is needed? Does anyone have guidance on how else to flush/rinse any fragments that may be lingering about?

I have also attached a picture of the rear oil pump cover and of the pump rotor assembly. You can see some scarring on the surface of both parts, but I don't really know what should be considered bad enough to replace. Any experienced advice would be appreciated. Right now, I am planning to replace these parts but I'd be interested in hearing from others.

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The front pump cover and rotor assembly has some very slight scratches on the surface of the parts, but no real scarring. I don't plan to replace those parts, aside from a new gasket.

All in all, I am looking for some guidance from forum members who have done this type of job before. Any insight is most appreciated. Thank you all.

KenSt

 

[ravens9273]

I just dealt with the same issue. I just installed an engine that had washer failure. I did open the engine and there was fragments inside that I had to clean out. Also had to replace both oil pumps since they were scared by the fragments. It is best to be safe and open it up to check. I took the whole engine apart to fully clean it out. I am glad I did because I found little fragments everywhere. While I am glad I did I am paying for it now since I messed up doing the timing putting it back together. Just remember if you take it all apart you will need to buy new stretch bolts. Do not use the old bolts. You will pay for that later in a big way. It sucks I know. I had to buy bolts today and will have to buy also tomorrow.

 

[Chester]

You should split the cases and clean it out. Also, I recommend you replace the timing chain. It's possible a piece of washer went between the chain and sprocket and may have stretched it. If this happened, the chain will eventually break. This picture is what can happen when a timing chain breaks at WOT.

The crankcase bolts are not torque to yield and do not have to be replaced. Only rocker shaft bolts, head bolts, and fylwheel bolts need to be replaced if removed.

Chester

 

[Chester]

I can't open your pictures.

Chester

 

[KenSt]

Strange, I used the insert image button for the picture. Let me try again...


And, the other one:

 

[KenSt]

I have spent some time looking into what it will take to split the engine to clean out the oil passages. Is it as straightforward as flipping the engine over and removing the crankcase cover? I assume that I don't have to lock the crankshaft if all I am doing is opening up the case to clean it out.

I do realize that changing the timing chain will be more involved, but for now I want to get things cleaned out and then look at how much further I want to take things. It is a 14-year old machine after all...

 

[Seadoodoc]

Common overlooked is the oil cooler that gets debris and sends back thru mtr after fresh rebuild. At 250 bucks I gambled on a new one for fresh $7k mtr. Good tip Slow91

 

[KenSt]

Common overlooked is the oil cooler that gets debris and sends back thru mtr after fresh rebuild. At 250 bucks I gambled on a new one for fresh $7k mtr. Good tip Slow91

Yeah, good point.

 

[ski-d00]

The 2003 did not have ceramic washers. This was the first year of the sc and had metal washers. In 2004, they came up with the brilliant design of the ceramic washers. The 2003 models wore out the metal washers but did not damage the engine.

However, if somebody rebuilt the sc between 2004 and 2007, they would have removed the metal washers and added the ceramic. I think this is unlikely and based on your description it is pretty evident that you did not have ceramic washers at all. All you had to do was install your freshly rebuilt sc and you were done. When the metal washers wear, they don't do any major damage to the engine like the ceramic does.

You did a lot of unnecessary work. The person at fault is the person who rebuilt your sc. It is very obvious when there are no ceramic washers or if they were there and broke apart.

When ceramic washers break, you will find large chunks of them in the oil screen and since you didn't find these, you did not have ceramic washers at all.

 

[Coastiejoe]

[MENTION=13190]Chester[/MENTION],
I thought the 2003 didn't have Ceramic Washers? Isn't it 2004 to 2007 only?

 

[Chester]

My mistake, I didn't look at the year and was going off the rest of the information.

Chester

 

[Coastiejoe]

My mistake, I didn't look at the year and was going off the rest of the information.

Chester

I wasn't questioning you, I just wanted to make sure I was right. If that is the case, are there parts that fall into the case still? I know very little of the 03 SC.

 

[KenSt]

Ski-d00 and Coastiejoe, thank you for the information! Of course, it would have been nice to have gotten this information before I embarked on my disassembly mission;-) It has been driving me crazy that I haven't been able to find any washer fragments. I was going on the information that I had received from the shop that rebuilt the SC, not knowing better. I'll have a conversation with him to sort that out.

But, having this information will give me some peace of mind that I didn't miss something that could cause me other trouble. Live and learn, and now I know how to disassemble the engine. Let's hope that I don't screw something up putting it back together...it has cost me mostly my time and some money for the new parts that I needed for the re-assembly.

There is some wear on the oil pumps where the covers of both front and PTO pumps are scarred a bit and the rotors themselves do show signs of wear. I was planning to replace those parts as I put things back together, just to be safe.

 

[Sea Dood]

Ski-d00 and Coastiejoe, thank you for the information! Of course, it would have been nice to have gotten this information before I embarked on my disassembly mission;-) It has been driving me crazy that I haven't been able to find any washer fragments. I was going on the information that I had received from the shop that rebuilt the SC, not knowing better. I'll have a conversation with him to sort that out.

But, having this information will give me some peace of mind that I didn't miss something that could cause me other trouble. Live and learn, and now I know how to disassemble the engine. Let's hope that I don't screw something up putting it back together...it has cost me mostly my time and some money for the new parts that I needed for the re-assembly.

There is some wear on the oil pumps where the covers of both front and PTO pumps are scarred a bit and the rotors themselves do show signs of wear. I was planning to replace those parts as I put things back together, just to be safe.

All 4 TEC engines show scarring of the rotors and pump assemblies, just the nature of the beast. The reason is because the PTO housing also includes the starter bendix assembly, and little bits of flywheel from starting the engine end up in the oil in the PTO housing, and then into the pumps.

 

[KenSt]

All 4 TEC engines show scarring of the rotors and pump assemblies, just the nature of the beast. The reason is because the PTO housing also includes the starter bendix assembly, and little bits of flywheel from starting the engine end up in the oil in the PTO housing, and then into the pumps.

Thank you for the additional info, Sea Dood.

Oh, and now I know why the class action lawsuit that was settled in California only covered the '04-'07 years. That one was a head scratcher why they left out the '03 from the class, but now that makes sense...

 

[Lexman]

So does a 2011 RXT have metal washers making it a 200hr kit install on them originally???

 

[ski-d00]

Yes, metal washers but not 200 hours. They are all 100 hours until 2016 when they didn't change anything but said it is now 200 hours but more importantly it is 2 years or 200 hours whichever comes first.

 

[Chester]

Yes, metal washers but not 200 hours. They are all 100 hours until 2016 when they didn't change anything but said it is now 200 hours but more importantly it is 2 years or 200 hours whichever comes first.

2012 is when they made the change.

Chester