Engine failures oil-injected vs. Premix?
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jwick86
New Member
With premix you know your motor is getting oil assuming you mix it correctly. With oil injection its variable injection. Meaning at an idle or low speed with premix you will smoke alot more than when running higher rpm range. I still run oil injection on both my ski's. Less to worry about when I'm on the lake I can just gas up and go. With premix you obviously have to carry oil in the ski or go back to the truck. But for failure rate, as long as you bleed the oil pump you should be all set.
I know this may not pertain to seadoo's but with 2 stroke quads I have known alot to blow up from the oil line getting clogged or what not, I am new to skis so they may be set up a little different,
I am picking up a 97 speedster and the guy has removed the oil
injection from both motors, He purchased the boat with 2 blown motors! replaced both in 07 and removed the oil injection. well by passed it.
I am picking up a 97 speedster and the guy has removed the oil
injection from both motors, He purchased the boat with 2 blown motors! replaced both in 07 and removed the oil injection. well by passed it.
jwick86
New Member
As for the lines clogging up that could be from old oil just sitting in the lines. I'm not to familiar with too many quads that run an oil injection but its the same concept. If you were worried about the lines clogging just take them off the pump and inlet on the motor, blow them out carefully with an air compressor and re-install them. You just need to bleed the pump if you disconnect it from the oil tank. Also about the boats, I'm not familiar with them but the 97 787 motor is a rotary valve and that needs oil still wheather you by pass the injection or not. So either way you still will run an oil tank (the one already there) if that motor is the 787.
Premix!......
I own a 1997 Challenger (among other skis) and I would not even consider going premix. There were a couple good points made by members in this thread. Smoke! If you premix, then at idle, your going to not just smoke but idling long enough and you'll likely foul a plug.
Premix is going to cost you three times as much than if you simply make sure your VROI system is working correctly.
For beginners, I'd say the single most important test is, "Am I getting oil?". This is a simple test.
With the engine at idle (on the trailer, hooked to the hose), reach up in front, low on the magneto cover and you'll feel the oil pump. If you have a small mirror, it's easy to see the cam. What you do is grab that cam wheel, wind it wide open while the engine is at idle and you should start seeing smoke within 30 seconds or so. It'll get heavier as you hold it open.
What your doing is making the VROI discharge WAY to much oil for ignition and this is the result.
Lines clogged?.....if you notice under the oil injection tank, there is a filter. This filter is of very fine mesh. There should be no way for any debris to pass through that filter. If someone's removed it, put it back on.
THere is a volume test you can perform if you really want to get into it. You'll need a screw gun and a small beaker or something that can measure the oil in CC's.......
But for me..........stay with VROI:cheers:
I own a 1997 Challenger (among other skis) and I would not even consider going premix. There were a couple good points made by members in this thread. Smoke! If you premix, then at idle, your going to not just smoke but idling long enough and you'll likely foul a plug.
Premix is going to cost you three times as much than if you simply make sure your VROI system is working correctly.
For beginners, I'd say the single most important test is, "Am I getting oil?". This is a simple test.
With the engine at idle (on the trailer, hooked to the hose), reach up in front, low on the magneto cover and you'll feel the oil pump. If you have a small mirror, it's easy to see the cam. What you do is grab that cam wheel, wind it wide open while the engine is at idle and you should start seeing smoke within 30 seconds or so. It'll get heavier as you hold it open.
What your doing is making the VROI discharge WAY to much oil for ignition and this is the result.
Lines clogged?.....if you notice under the oil injection tank, there is a filter. This filter is of very fine mesh. There should be no way for any debris to pass through that filter. If someone's removed it, put it back on.
THere is a volume test you can perform if you really want to get into it. You'll need a screw gun and a small beaker or something that can measure the oil in CC's.......
But for me..........stay with VROI:cheers:
hypo069
New Member
UR the man Seadoosnipe, i am new to jet ski's, always had motorbikes, until just now i was going out tomorrow to buy a blockoff kit for my 96 gsx after reading everyone saying the injection pump is no good, though u r the man and it seems u know every aspect of the 787, im going to take your word and stick with it,, Thanks heaps,,,keep on :boxing_smiley:
Scott - Australia
Scott - Australia
jackson09
New Member
seadoo snipe is right, i have two of the same ski and one is premix and the other isnt and the premix really will use three times as much oil because it always burns the same amount of oil. the only reason i think anyone would want to go premix is if you have to, like you broke the oil pump and dont want to buy a new one, like me. everyone says the oil pumps are really reliable too.
Gear pump...
These oil pumps are a simple gear type pump. Lubricated by it's own oil and shafted to the magneto. People think they are un-reliable. I think they are just un-informed...........:cheers:
These oil pumps are a simple gear type pump. Lubricated by it's own oil and shafted to the magneto. People think they are un-reliable. I think they are just un-informed...........:cheers:
. Thanks Scott
jackson09
New Member
actually, the oil pump didnt break just the spring on the arm broke so it would stick open and stall the engine and foul the plugs. The spring didnt have a number on the parts list so I assume you couldn't buy just that so i just premixed it. I would think if youre not getting oil the ski would beep when it started overheating and you would know to turn it off so you wont blow the engine. If you see smoke when you start up, youre getting oil.
Why?
Is there a reason to go premix? If you think your oil pumps are going to fail, what do your plugs look like?
These oil pumps are simplex pumps. They are a gear type pump lubricated by their own oil. If you go premix, expect to pay 3 times what you pay now for oil. And the non NMMA TC oils are expensive.:cheers:
Is there a reason to go premix? If you think your oil pumps are going to fail, what do your plugs look like?
These oil pumps are simplex pumps. They are a gear type pump lubricated by their own oil. If you go premix, expect to pay 3 times what you pay now for oil. And the non NMMA TC oils are expensive.:cheers:
I am probably just over-worrying, but after one engine failure and having to put in a new engine, I have a right to be worrying.
If I am fouling plugs every other trip or so, is it safe to say that my oiling system is up to par, if not running TOO rich?
I tend to put in new plugs each week just to not have to mess with it on the water. If not, 3rd or 4th trip it will start to run crappy and I have to swap plugs.
I did Snipe's oil test and it smoked a little at dry idle (3000 rpms) with the oil pump wide open, but it didn't smoke as much as I expected. I expected to fog the entire block, but only got a little visible smoke sort of in an on-again/off-again pattern alternating every 5 seconds or so.
I don't think I filled the oil tank but once last season, and it is still half full. THAT is the main reason I worry.
If I am fouling plugs every other trip or so, is it safe to say that my oiling system is up to par, if not running TOO rich?
I tend to put in new plugs each week just to not have to mess with it on the water. If not, 3rd or 4th trip it will start to run crappy and I have to swap plugs.
I did Snipe's oil test and it smoked a little at dry idle (3000 rpms) with the oil pump wide open, but it didn't smoke as much as I expected. I expected to fog the entire block, but only got a little visible smoke sort of in an on-again/off-again pattern alternating every 5 seconds or so.
I don't think I filled the oil tank but once last season, and it is still half full. THAT is the main reason I worry.
Sorry if I'm hijacking this post. I'm new to boating and I've got a question about a SD Challenger 2000 that has this variable oil injection issue.
I'm a complete noob to SD's or jet boats at all for that matter and could really use some help. The boat I'm interested in had a motor rebuild (whose warranty just expired) because the oil pump failed. While the guy had the engine repair they blocked off the variable oil injection and they now just put premix into the gas.
Would you hesitate to purchase this boat solely because of this. I realize that it will probably smoke much more at idle and that it will use much more oil since it will no longer vary the amount. But are there really any other disadvantages?
Also, what kind of oil goes into the gas now--normal 40:1 2-stroke oil? Thanks for all the help....
I'm a complete noob to SD's or jet boats at all for that matter and could really use some help. The boat I'm interested in had a motor rebuild (whose warranty just expired) because the oil pump failed. While the guy had the engine repair they blocked off the variable oil injection and they now just put premix into the gas.
Would you hesitate to purchase this boat solely because of this. I realize that it will probably smoke much more at idle and that it will use much more oil since it will no longer vary the amount. But are there really any other disadvantages?
Also, what kind of oil goes into the gas now--normal 40:1 2-stroke oil? Thanks for all the help....
The OEM oiling system prolly just had operator error, they seldom fail but they get clogged from gel that is the result of mixing oil types or brands - find one and stick with it, if you are stuck with a premix machine 40-1 is where you want to be, a synthetic will be nicer when you idle along the nowake zone with the stinky cloud behind ya. In time you may find the oil system was blocked for no valid reason, put 1/2 gal kerosene in the tank and with extensions slipped over your little oil injector lines run into a peanut butter jar for half an hour and see what happens - you may be lucky and flush the nozzles out the same way, kerosene again and see if the tank drops after 1/2 hr, amazing eh? Now find a brand oil and stay with it, when you get your first bottle empty cut the front off and put in the glove box.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
That is a perfectly valid reason to switch.
BUT...
1) did you buy the ski used?
2) did you service the oil system yearly?
Realistically, if you service the system every spring before the first ride... you will know it things are working or not. (new filter, and a bleed) For a check valve to fail, it would have needed to get clogged up, or water in it.
injection or premix
I bought it used from a friend.She always used seadoo mineral oil so i still
use it.It basically sat in her garage from 2006-2010.When i got it in march
i drained the oil and replaced the filter.i bled it at the pump until the lines were solid.The day it broke I started it in the water and let it idle and pulled up on the pump arm and in a second or two it started smoking.seemed ok
so i figured everything was ok.About 20 minutes later a loud noise and it
seized up.I only paid 65.00 dollars for the ski and trailer so a 600.00 engine
still isn't bad.
I bought it used from a friend.She always used seadoo mineral oil so i still
use it.It basically sat in her garage from 2006-2010.When i got it in march
i drained the oil and replaced the filter.i bled it at the pump until the lines were solid.The day it broke I started it in the water and let it idle and pulled up on the pump arm and in a second or two it started smoking.seemed ok
so i figured everything was ok.About 20 minutes later a loud noise and it
seized up.I only paid 65.00 dollars for the ski and trailer so a 600.00 engine
still isn't bad.
injection vs premix
could be but i rode it a few times with no problems before the failure.The
person I bought it from never had trouble with it but hated the aggrivation
of cleaning it and everyting else envolved with owning it.Like a lot of people
she thought you just put it in the water and go.When i got it she was the second owner.She bought it from a neighbor.Neither one rode it very much.
probably had less than 60 hrs on it when the engine went.as for the sale price she just wanted it gone from her house.
could be but i rode it a few times with no problems before the failure.The
person I bought it from never had trouble with it but hated the aggrivation
of cleaning it and everyting else envolved with owning it.Like a lot of people
she thought you just put it in the water and go.When i got it she was the second owner.She bought it from a neighbor.Neither one rode it very much.
probably had less than 60 hrs on it when the engine went.as for the sale price she just wanted it gone from her house.
Stevenarita
New Member
direct?
Is this what is meant by Direct Injection? If so, what years had direct injection?
Is this what is meant by Direct Injection? If so, what years had direct injection?
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