Buying advice needed

[Craigmri]

Greetings folks!

Looking for some advice and insight as I'm considering getting back into a jet boat.

My last jetboat was a Challenger 2000 with the 240hp merc. I thought it was a fun boat however three elements of that boat forced me to sell. One, my 240hp merc was a smoke machine at idle. Was so obnoxious. Two, in waters with floating sea grass, the inlet screen would get clogged and only effective way to clear was jumping in the water and manually clearing it out. Finally, it seemed like that boat had a torque steer issue because I recall it was more difficult to steer to one side under speed that the other. Otherwise I really enjoyed that boats performance and features.

I've currently got my eye on two Seadoo's:

Boat 1: 2007 Seadoo Challanger 180(Used three times with about 2 hours)
I really like some of the improvements they've made over my older Challenger 2000. Closed loop cooling, four stroke etc... I've been doing some research on this and I have seen a supercharger washer issue? Whats this all about? What inherent issues are typical and what should I look for when previewing and sea trialing this boat? Asking price from private owner is $12,800

Boat 2: 2004 Seadoo Utopia 205 240hp merc(Approx 50 hours)
I really like the Utopia 205's size and feature set however I'm worried about the smoke issue I had with my older challenger. In addition I'm worried that parts, service and costly repairs could be an issue with the merc/seadoo combo. This boat comes with no trailer but at an asking price of $6999 it sounds like a smoking buy(punn?) however I have only seem some low res pictures so a on-site visual is required before making an assesment on condition.

Can anyone offer some thoughts and suggestions to assist me in making a decision on these boats or perhaps other models??

Thanks in advance.
Craig

 

[rookie101]

Thats a tough one to awnser.

You pointed out the two obvious advantages to both boats, the Utopias size makes it a smother riding more comfortable boat with more room for the family, but the modern four stroke in the challenger would be much nicer than an old two stroke.

I love my utopia, but wish it had a four stroke in it. Don't get me wrong my Optimax runs great and does not smoke at all. I think I may evan use less fuel than the super charged 4tec.

I have sat in the Challenger 180 at the local boat show here, and found it a bit cramped behind the wheel for my liking. The supercharger washers were not as big an issue in the boats as compared to the skis, but for my piece of mind I would have them changed to the stainless steel ones.

In the end I would try and decide how big of a boat I need. If you don't need the full twenty feet of the Utopia, then go with the Challenger. Without taking the Utopia for a test drive on the water to see how the Mercury runs, and too check for smoke I would stay away from it as the cost of rebuilding a Optimax is very pricey. Also remeber to price out a trailer and take that into consideration.



Aaron:cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

Here are my thoughts...I own a "2008" 200 speedster. I didn't go for the supercharger but have be in a bunch of them and have a buddies "2008" 180 with a 215 supercharger. It is strong and fast, and I use it when I want. I have a problem buying anything that has been discontinued. Seadoo isn't using mercury any more so parts are expensive to get, if you can find them... Mercury won't repair it cause it is a seadoo product... I know of 3 mercury seadoo boats sitting with blown motors...they make great paper weights and that's about what there worth. Super Chargers use 91 octane fuel and are real quick. They use same engine (4-tec) that seadoo uses in their production line now. The washer problem isn't with the jet boats, just the PWC's. This is just my personal opinion from what I have seen and read in this forum and some personal experience.

Karl

 

[sporsterjoel]

I say stick with the 4 stroke... I also have to disagree with rookie and karl about the washers, the boats have the same motors as the pwc's and i have heard of the washers going in the boats (same set-up = same problems) seadoo i think also sells way more pwc then boat witch is why youll find more pwc with blown washers. metal washer sets are around 100bucks if you get a supercharged one id change the washers just to be safe. Also all jet boats will turn better one way then the other and have same problems with weeds. if you didnt really like the 240 in your first boat then id think youll feel the same about the utopia. If you dont mind some extra hrs and a couple years older and its within your budget you can find a 2004-05 speedster 200 310hp for around $14,000-16,000 with low hrs.

 

[Dae180se]

Greetings folks!

Looking for some advice and insight as I'm considering getting back into a jet boat.

My last jetboat was a Challenger 2000 with the 240hp merc. I thought it was a fun boat however three elements of that boat forced me to sell. One, my 240hp merc was a smoke machine at idle. Was so obnoxious. Two, in waters with floating sea grass, the inlet screen would get clogged and only effective way to clear was jumping in the water and manually clearing it out. Finally, it seemed like that boat had a torque steer issue because I recall it was more difficult to steer to one side under speed that the other. Otherwise I really enjoyed that boats performance and features.

I've currently got my eye on two Seadoo's:

Boat 1: 2007 Seadoo Challanger 180(Used three times with about 2 hours)
I really like some of the improvements they've made over my older Challenger 2000. Closed loop cooling, four stroke etc... I've been doing some research on this and I have seen a supercharger washer issue? Whats this all about? What inherent issues are typical and what should I look for when previewing and sea trialing this boat? Asking price from private owner is $12,800

Boat 2: 2004 Seadoo Utopia 205 240hp merc(Approx 50 hours)
I really like the Utopia 205's size and feature set however I'm worried about the smoke issue I had with my older challenger. In addition I'm worried that parts, service and costly repairs could be an issue with the merc/seadoo combo. This boat comes with no trailer but at an asking price of $6999 it sounds like a smoking buy(punn?) however I have only seem some low res pictures so a on-site visual is required before making an assesment on condition.

Can anyone offer some thoughts and suggestions to assist me in making a decision on these boats or perhaps other models??

Thanks in advance.
Craig

Thats a excellent price on the challenger 180se. Just change s/c washers out. I would next time!

 

[sporsterjoel]

Thats a excellent price on the challenger 180se. Just change s/c washers out. I would next time!

Dae180se didnt you have the washer fail in your boat??? i also know there are others on here with boat that have had them blow aswell.

 

[Dae180se]

Dae180se didnt you have the washer fail in your boat??? i also know there are others on here with boat that have had them blow aswell.

Ya mine did while just doing a couple of power turns. Then it would only max out at 6500RPM. I find BRP service not to bad and replaced washers for free. Boat still has over a year & 1/2 warranty.

 

[kustomkarl]

I have a 2008 180 Super Charged 215hp Jet boat sitting in my yard, with blown super charged washers...owners says it only revved to 6500...imagine that... He never lets off while jumping waves. :ack:

Karl

 

[Craigmri]

Update

I looked at the 2007 Challenger 180 today. It looked NOTHING like the pictures. It was obvious to me that the pictures were taken when the boat was new and probably NEVER washed or cleaned. In addition the statement about the boat being used only three times was a joke too. The keel was scuffed, scratched and worn looking so this boat had many beachings in the Florida sand. Overall condition was nasty! Wouldnt pay $9000 for this boat.

I did like the model however and I found a BRAND NEW one a few states away for a killer deal of $16,398 plus tax on a Blue 2008 180. This sounds like something I cannot pass up.:hurray:

Craig

 

[kustomkarl]

It sounds like you on the right track...The winter is always the time for bargains.

Karl

 

[sporsterjoel]

just make sure you test drive it first and be sure it the right boat for you, if it is im sure you and karl will have fun boating together while i shovel snow:cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

just make sure you test drive it first and be sure it the right boat for you, if it is im sure you and karl will have fun boating together while i shovel snow:cheers:

Heck yea..I'm going boating tomorrow if it isn't too hot...:rofl:

Karl

 

[JT>]

New Boat Prices -2008

Hi Guys/Ladies, new to the forum and just now getting back into boat ownership after a lag of 19 years due to the job. Noticed Craigmri's situation and just wanted to weigh in with my own comments for any and all to respond to. I did a lot of research and made inquiries of friends with boats and finally decided on a jet and then a SeaDoo. First, Craigmri, what state/dealer did you buy from? Sounds like you received a very reasonable deal. Second, today I just closed a deal on a Blue 2008 Challenger 180 SE with tower and galvanized trailer for $19, 300, out-the-door total price including tax, tags, title, and delivery to my lake (200 miles from him). The dealer, as was noted by you all, was ready and willing to deal on his 2008 inventory - great time to buy, and, if you buy before 3/31 you get an extra year of warranty. I believe this was a very good deal and think I'll be more than pleased with the boat. I'm looking forward to warmer weather to get out on the lake and join my fellow boating enthusiasts, and, do a little fishing.
To all, a happy, healthy, and hopefully prosperous 2009! JT> :cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

Welcome to the seadoo forum JT. That is great advice and wish you best of luck with you new seadoo...

Karl

 

[Jeffy]

Hey guys not trying to hijack this tread but I am going to be picking up one of these boats also. January 10th is the first day of the Toronto Boat show and will be heading down to see what kind of deals they have on the in stock 2008's and the new 2009's.
I have a feeling that I will get a better deal on the 08's but want to see what the difference is. To keep the price down I think I will stay away from the SE and the new 255hp engine.

Any thoughts or help on what I should be looking or asking for next week?

Thanks, Jeff

 

[Craigmri]

JT

JT,

Thanks for chiming in. It sounds like you got a killer deal on your 180se!! Did yours come with a painted steel trailer or galvanized? If I may ask, what dealer did you buy from? I'm in Florida and was going to buy from a NC dealer anyway since gas is reasonable right now.

Craig

Hi Guys/Ladies, new to the forum and just now getting back into boat ownership after a lag of 19 years due to the job. Noticed Craigmri's situation and just wanted to weigh in with my own comments for any and all to respond to. I did a lot of research and made inquiries of friends with boats and finally decided on a jet and then a SeaDoo. First, Craigmri, what state/dealer did you buy from? Sounds like you received a very reasonable deal. Second, today I just closed a deal on a Blue 2008 Challenger 180 SE with tower and galvanized trailer for $19, 300, out-the-door total price including tax, tags, title, and delivery to my lake (200 miles from him). The dealer, as was noted by you all, was ready and willing to deal on his 2008 inventory - great time to buy, and, if you buy before 3/31 you get an extra year of warranty. I believe this was a very good deal and think I'll be more than pleased with the boat. I'm looking forward to warmer weather to get out on the lake and join my fellow boating enthusiasts, and, do a little fishing.
To all, a happy, healthy, and hopefully prosperous 2009! JT> :cheers:

 

[JT>]

Craig,
I was looking through the Boat Trader ads comparing dealers and came up with Smith Powersports, Hayesville, NC. Their number is 800.549.6009. I spoke with Fred Plonsky to make the deal, but had heard through another forum that Charles Smith, the owner, was the one to talk to. I think either would give you a fair deal. I told them they were competing for my business with another dealer in Florida (North Jax Motorsports, but didn't tell them who the dealer was) and that the Florida dealer was giving me the galvanized trailer, so I would expect them to do the same - they did. (By the way, North Jax never did get back to me after I made my offer of $19,000, and said they would.) Take a look at Boat Trader listings and find Smith Powersports. Last I looked, the other day, they were advertising a 2008 Challenger 180 for $15,999, if you're interested in a non-SE model. Fred also told me they were willing to deal and get their 2008's out of inventory.

Good luck with your boat search and find mission! JT> atriot:

 

[Craigmri]

Fred

JT,

Funny...I am dealing with Fred at Smiths

I'm going to ask him if he'll match the deal he gave you. Can I use your name?

Craig

Craig,
I was looking through the Boat Trader ads comparing dealers and came up with Smith Powersports, Hayesville, NC. Their number is 800.549.6009. I spoke with Fred Plonsky to make the deal, but had heard through another forum that Charles Smith, the owner, was the one to talk to. I think either would give you a fair deal. I told them they were competing for my business with another dealer in Florida (North Jax Motorsports, but didn't tell them who the dealer was) and that the Florida dealer was giving me the galvanized trailer, so I would expect them to do the same - they did. (By the way, North Jax never did get back to me after I made my offer of $19,000, and said they would.) Take a look at Boat Trader listings and find Smith Powersports. Last I looked, the other day, they were advertising a 2008 Challenger 180 for $15,999, if you're interested in a non-SE model. Fred also told me they were willing to deal and get their 2008's out of inventory.

Good luck with your boat search and find mission! JT> atriot:

 

[Craigmri]

Looks like and found another used 2005 Utopia 205se. I go to see the boat tomorrow but the "just taken" photos look pretty good. The deal is $12,200 OTD.

They say under 100 hours but I am setting up a mercury service guy to plug into the boat and get all the data. if that checks out and the sea trial goes well I should have the Utopia in my possession tomorrow.

BTW, does anyone know the fuel economy specs for the 250 Optimax?

Craig

 

[seadoosnipe]

Hybrid?.....

I hate to discourage anyone that is looking for a nice boat but the 250 Optimax, Mercury engine is a Direct Injected engine and more technical than a Rotax 4 TEC.

The biggest concern with these hybrids, from what I hear of the owners, that Seadoo won't work on it because it's a Mercury and Mercury won't because it's a jet boat.

Which ever you decide, make sure you have a trustworthy mechanic who will service this engine without robbing you blind.

There has only been one member in the forum with this boat motor. He lost the odd bank cylinders due to a sensor problem and the cost to replace the motor, quoted to him, was $10,000.

So, make sure you do all your home work on the 250 Optimax DFI engine before getting it.

BTW, we do have this shop manual..........if it's not in our library yet, it will be. I have it loaded on my flash drive at the moment and although there are a lot of specs I can give you, I didn't easily see the fuel consumption rates.:cheers:

 

[Craigmri]

I'm in shock!!

Well, I still cannot believe this actually. I canceled the deal on the used 2005 Utopia 205. Although I did have a very reputable service shop that was going to be my go-to-guy for the Optimax, I got an offer I could not refuse.

I'm going to buy a Brand new, never prepped, never in water 2007 Utopia 205!!! Of course this has the twin 155hp Rotax setup totaling 310hp!!! Full warranty and everything....I'm still in shock about it actually as the price is totally shockingly low. I'm assuming the sky is falling in the boating industry right now. I'm actually embarrassed to say how much I'm paying. Lets just say less than half the MSRP!!!

Will pick it up a week from tomorrow Wahoooooooo!:hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:

Craig

I hate to discourage anyone that is looking for a nice boat but the 250 Optimax, Mercury engine is a Direct Injected engine and more technical than a Rotax 4 TEC.

The biggest concern with these hybrids, from what I hear of the owners, that Seadoo won't work on it because it's a Mercury and Mercury won't because it's a jet boat.

Which ever you decide, make sure you have a trustworthy mechanic who will service this engine without robbing you blind.

There has only been one member in the forum with this boat motor. He lost the odd bank cylinders due to a sensor problem and the cost to replace the motor, quoted to him, was $10,000.

So, make sure you do all your home work on the 250 Optimax DFI engine before getting it.

BTW, we do have this shop manual..........if it's not in our library yet, it will be. I have it loaded on my flash drive at the moment and although there are a lot of specs I can give you, I didn't easily see the fuel consumption rates.:cheers:

 

[rookie101]

Less than half???

I'm actually embarrassed to say how much I'm paying. Lets just say less than half the MSRP!!!



Craig

Are you saying you paid 17,000?????

That is an awesome deal. I would put my boat up for sale in a heartbeat for that kind of a price. I think you will be much happier with the 4TEC package than the Mercury. (Although contrary to popular belief the Optimax is a good motor) I know I would take a four stroke over a two stroke any day.


Aaron

 

[seadoosnipe]

250 dfi...?

I'd agree with Aaron on the 2 stroke verse 4 stroke but the 250 DFI was one hell of a power house. It's got awesome get up and go. But, the idea of the "hybrid" syndrome is something I've witnessed personally in working with these boats.

Aaron seems to be one of the lucky ones. Not one has one but knows how to work on it too...........:cheers:

 

[Craigmri]

310hp package

Guys,

The two Rotax 155hp engines in the 205 I'm buying are not supercharged is this correct? I actually hope they are normally aspirated so no worries about washers grenading and hopefully a long life Rotax.

Craig

 

[kustomkarl]

Your correct Craig. I have the same engine set up in my 200 speedster. In a comparison to a Super Charged model, I get lots better fuel economy on 87 octane fuel vs/ 91 for the SC, and is only about 6mph slower on top end... Both engine types have the same pulling power form the bottom till you get to about 52 mph...than the SC slowly walks ahead. The Naturally Aspirated engine is the way to go.

Karl