587 failed overhaul

[Miamihoosier]

I'm looking for some input on understanding and handling a failed overhaul. I have attached my overhaul invoice. My local SeaDoo repair shop is a seemingly highly reputable one man operation. He overhauled my 587 last fall. He ran it an hour for break-in. I ran it one tank of gas at variable speeds last fall and took it out. I winterized it and kept it in a 60 degree heated garage. I launched it this spring just prior to Memorial day. 85 degrees outside in Indiana. Water was around 70. My daughter was driving. Idled out for 60 seconds and headed for our lake house. The unit died after 5 minutes. I towed it home. Thought it had a bad battery. Replaced battery. Daughter rode it 5-6 times. It would die but always restart, until no restart. My local guy says it had a cold, four point failure caused by my daughter not warming it up enough before applying full power. Shop owner says the shop who he got the overhaul from won't warrenty it since it has too many hours on it. I thought I was paying for him to personally overhaul it - see the invoice. The engine has always turned over. Not frozen when the head was removed, but evidence of this four point issue in forward cylinder. No compression. He wants $1,000 to repair it again. I'm really lost on this. I'd like to maintain this relationship, but am questioning that I'm responsible for this failure. Could I really be responsible for this failure? Thanks for any input.

 

[WhiskeyD]

After doing all that work did he clean and rebuild the fuel system / carbs? Those parts prices seem extremely high too

 

[racerxxx]

I wonder if he just bought a remanufactured engine and put it in. Can you post some pictures of the engine?

 

[Dr Honda]

Since he did the rebuild... and looks like he deliverd a runnin ski.... AND chanrged $2k for all of it.... did he rebuild the fuel system??

If it was a reputable shop, there is no way they would let a 2-stroke ski leave with a new engine, and not rebuild the fuel system.

Also... what oil did he put back in it? Was it a good API-tc oil? Or was it just some crap he had sitting around.

Oh... and the "Proper warm up" thing is a load of shit. We all jump on cold skis, and run them hard.

Unfortunately, unless he gave specific warranty info, In writing... I don't think you have any recourse. It's been more than 6 months, and even if you go to court... I don't think they would judge in your favor. (sorry)

 

[mwat65]

Since he did the rebuild... and looks like he deliverd a runnin ski.... AND chanrged $2k for all of it.... did he rebuild the fuel system??

If it was a reputable shop, there is no way they would let a 2-stroke ski leave with a new engine, and not rebuild the fuel system.

Also... what oil did he put back in it? Was it a good API-tc oil? Or was it just some crap he had sitting around.

Oh... and the "Proper warm up" thing is a load of shit. We all jump on cold skis, and run them hard.

Unfortunately, unless he gave specific warranty info, In writing... I don't think you have any recourse. It's been more than 6 months, and even if you go to court... I don't think they would judge in your favor. (sorry)

Amen to all of the above. I would have to wonder at this point if they actually rebuilt the entire motor . If they didn’t bother to fix the problem that caused the motor to go out (carbs) they were just taking your money.

 

[Miamihoosier]

After doing all that work did he clean and rebuild the fuel system / carbs? Those parts prices seem extremely high too

The carburetors were rebuilt, on a previous bill... I would just really like to understand what might have caused this failure. I'm not going to scream and shout. I'm just very disappointed, after the money I spent, to end up like this.

 

[Dr Honda]

The carburetors were rebuilt, on a previous bill... I would just really like to understand what might have caused this failure. I'm not going to scream and shout. I'm just very disappointed, after the money I spent, to end up like this.

Unfortunately, could have been a bunch of things.

1) Lean run from plugged/leaking fuel system or improper carb rebuild.
2) overtemp from plugged cooling
3) Lean run from an air leak. (from crank seals, or manifold gaskets)
4) Too much ignition timming. (direct issue from the guy who rebuilt it being lazy and not double checking)
5) Improper piston clearance.
6) Improper ring end gap,
7) Improper squash band clearance. (This is HIGHLY critical, and some guys just slap engines together without checking that. this is why Rotax makes multiple base gaskets to set this distance, but you have to take the top half apart, and replace a gasket to change it)
8) Poor machine work.
9) wrong/cheap oil
10) Could have just had a bad piston or ring, and it cracked. (it happens)

AND so on.....


But without seeing the busted parts... it's impossible to tell from where I'm sitting. And unfortunately, if you took it back to the shop that did the work in the first place, they would have destroyed any real evidence.

 

[Dr Honda]

The carburetors were rebuilt, on a previous bill... ......................................................................

Wait............

I just thought of something. Did he charge you to rebuild the carbs before the first engine gave up???? If they did... that's your smoking gun. 2 failures on the same carb rebuild.

 

[Miamihoosier]

Wait............

I just thought of something. Did he charge you to rebuild the carbs before the first engine gave up???? If they did... that's your smoking gun. 2 failures on the same carb rebuild.

Interesting observation. Same cylinder both times also...

 

[Digdog]

Did he change the crank seals? Same cylinder twice could be caused by bad seal

 

[Miamihoosier]

Thanks so much for all the input. I will visit with the mechanic Monday morning and report back.

 

[Miamihoosier]

So, the follow up... The front piston has damage top to bottom. The rear cylinder looked fine. I went ahead and replaced both pistons. So, what have I learned?? The break-in process for this engine is very critical and very specific. I wish I would have read on this forum before or that my mechanic would have been much more specific about the break-in procedure. I'm still not sure that it should have failed based on the break-in that we did. Anyway... I have switched back from Quicksilver synthetic to XPX Carb 2T premium mineral oil per the manual. I also added 24 ounces of oil to the gas for the first tank, per the manual. I up to four hours on the engine now, trying to follow the owners manual break-in procedure exactly. Looking for 10 hours of break-in riding. I guess I'll never really know what caused the failure. $800 for my lesson. Thanks fagain or all the input and comments.