2007 gtx limited s/c 4tec NO START

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THEREVIVAL

THEREVIVAL

Active Member
Hoping someone here can make sure I'm not missing anything.

Base story- over the last year the ski has intermittently had starting issues which I thought was just the start/stop switch. If you pressed the switch a few times it would eventually start. Finally got around to replacing s/s switch and checking out old switch found it has seriously high resistance even when being pressed. So thought I was good to go - wrong. I was good for a few starts then suddenly it started happening more often. To which point the ski will never start now. Did some diagnostic (I'm a 20 year auto tech) found that if you jump the starter solenoid it runs fine. The start solenoid has 12v to it all the time and the ecu grounds the circuit. Tested the voltage at the solenoid and have good voltage. Tested the circuit from solenoid to ecu wiring has .03 ohms. I'm left with only thinking that the ecu is bad, BUT I'm worried there's possibly something else going on.

Can't find any info on any prerequisites the ski may have that would prevent it from starting. I know it checks the dess key but what else? Anything like in the auto world where you have a neutral safety switch, maybe a rollover switch or some sort of fail safe. That would tell the ecu its NOT allowed to crank. Don't wanna put a ecu in if the ecu is being told it can't start. (I have tried both keys).

Any info or help would be appreciated.
 
Have you changed your solenoid? The brown ones are a known problem and do exactly what you are describing. They will always click but they don't actually make contact internally and won't pass voltage through. It starts not making contact every once in a while, and then goes to only starting once every 10 pushes until it won't start it at all. The new black plastic version is proving to be way more reliable and be bought for about $10.
 
ski-d00 said:
Have you changed your solenoid? The brown ones are a known problem and do exactly what you are describing. They will always click but they don't actually make contact internally and won't pass voltage through. It starts not making contact every once in a while, and then goes to only starting once every 10 pushes until it won't start it at all. The new black plastic version is proving to be way more reliable and be bought for about $10.
Click to expand...
It doesnt even click when pressing the start button. To be sure I've bench tested solenoid it's good. But also swaped out with another one I had (that was also bench tested) still same. And both are actually black ones too 🤦
 
Need more info on exactly what it is doing. When you put the key on what happens? 2 beeps? single beep? does cluster come on? The DESS post has 2 circuits that it closes. One can work while the other doesn't. Did you jump start the ski or charge the battery while in the ski? If you supply ground to the solenoid trigger circuit does it start and then run fine? Have you driven it like this to make sure there are no other running problems. Have you gotten any codes through any of this? Have you checked main power to the ECU is supplied when the key is on?

It's not common for the ECU to fail on the starting circuit only and have the ski run fine when the solenoid is jumped. I'd check connections and grounds.
 
ski-d00 said:
Need more info on exactly what it is doing. When you put the key on what happens? 2 beeps? single beep? does cluster come on? The DESS post has 2 circuits that it closes. One can work while the other doesn't. Did you jump start the ski or charge the battery while in the ski? If you supply ground to the solenoid trigger circuit does it start and then run fine? Have you driven it like this to make sure there are no other running problems. Have you gotten any codes through any of this? Have you checked main power to the ECU is supplied when the key is on?

It's not common for the ECU to fail on the starting circuit only and have the ski run fine when the solenoid is jumped. I'd check connections and grounds.
Click to expand...
Dess post reed switch is good. And i get 2 beeps. So key is registering.
Yes if I back probe the ground circuit, and supply ground it starts and runs. Also starts and runs if you take a wrench and short the positive circuits together.
Edit: also took off all the ground connections on the front of the engine and cleaned them up.
 
Jump start, low battery recently, or charge battery? check the output ground signal to the solenoid right at the ECU when the start button is pressed which is the B-31 position. Then check the ground circuit from the ECU to the bus bar on the small fuse box and the ground circtuit from the buss bar to the DESS post and back to the ECU, positions B-17 and B-26.

I suspect a connection problem in one of these circuits. The reed switch may be good on the post but is the ground circuit connecting?
 
Last edited:
skiasylum said:
Do you have the 4 wire or 3 wire DESS Post? and does the start/stop switch power up the instrument cluster or does the dess key do it when you put it on the DESS Post?
Click to expand...
Suddenly I can't remember if it's 4 or 3 wire. And the key turns on the cluster and I get 2 beeps
 
ski-d00 said:
Jump start, low battery recently, or charge battery? check the output ground signal to the solenoid right at the ECU when the start button is pressed which is the B-31 position. Then check the ground circuit from the ECU to the bus bar on the small fuse box and the ground circtuit from the buss bar to the DESS post and back to the ECU, positions B-17 and B-26.

I suspect a connection problem in one of these circuits. The reed switch may be good on the post but is the ground circuit connecting?
Click to expand...
No ground output from the ecu at pin 31 when start button pressed. Pin B-19 has 12v when button pressed.

B-17 to bus bar - .03 ohm
Dess connector under hood to bus bar -.03 ohms
B-17 to B-26 (key out -OL) (key in - 38 ohms)
B-17 (key in- extremely high resistance to battery gound 30k ohms)
 
if its a 4 wire post should be a bl/pu wire and a bl wire at the dess post. Jump them and see if it powers up. If it does its either the post or the s/s switch is stuck on or off, probably the post.
 
skiasylum said:
if its a 4 wire post should be a bl/pu wire and a bl wire at the dess post. Jump them and see if it powers up. If it does its either the post or the s/s switch is stuck on or off, probably the post.
Click to expand...
The ski has always powered up. Just not cranking. And it's a new start stop switch already. Which is working I'm getting 12v at ecu where s/s switch is at B19 when button pressed
 
@ski-d00 does the ground bus bar in the small fuse box get grounded to battery through the ecu? im getting overly high readings of resistance from pin B-17 to battery ground.

while testing on sunday it started cranking and runnning properly for about 5 minutes then i walked away and came back and it went to no crank again.

im still thinking that something is telling the ecu not to crank. like tops sensor or something like that the might prevent it from cranking. but cant find any info on what prerequisites the ecu looks at aside from dess key that would not allow it to crank.
 
Yes, the buss bar gets grounded through the ECU. The ECU receives the ground signal circuit from B-17 and delivers to various components but it is supplied by B-26 which goes through the DESS post and then directly to the ground buss bar in the small fuse box.

Have you tested your DESS post? Sometimes they work intermittently and you should not have any ground circuits with high resistance.

What is your resistance between the 3 black wires with the key on the post? I've tested several and while they bench test good they still didn't work once powered up.
 
ski-d00 said:
Yes, the buss bar gets grounded through the ECU. The ECU receives the ground signal circuit from B-17 and delivers to various components but it is supplied by B-26 which goes through the DESS post and then directly to the ground buss bar in the small fuse box.

Have you tested your DESS post? Sometimes they work intermittently and you should not have any ground circuits with high resistance.

What is your resistance between the 3 black wires with the key on the post? I've tested several and while they bench test good they still didn't work once powered up.
Click to expand...
B-17 to B-26 with ecu disconnected and with key in is 38 ohms.
Pin B-17 key in with ecu connected is like 30k ohms. I think B-26 is the same.
How can I test dess post properly?
I am going to double check ecu grounds on B- 1, 2, 32, and 41. Want to make sure ecu has strong ground.
 
ski-d00 said:
Do all 3 sets of black wires.
Click to expand...
All 3 have .7 ohms or less with key in
All are o.l. with key out.

With Key In:
B-26 to B-17 is 38.0 ohms
B-26 to battery ground is 40.0 ohm
B-17 to battery ground is 2.9K ohms

B-1, B-2, B-32, and B-41 to battery ground is 0.4 ohms.
 

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Unplug dess post wiring connector. On the ski side of the harness, short out the black/yellow wire to the black wire. The computer should fire up. If it doesn't you have a bad dess post.
 
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