1995 Speedster Starting Problem

[achtungbabi]

HI Everyone, well it has happened finally the boat is finished and ready to take out and as we all know, something went wrong.

In Summary one of the engines will not start.

The twin battery set up has been changed to a single type doing the start up modification.

Before the mods both engines started one needed the "Two battery switch" to really turn over.

The engine directly behind the steering wheel started stronger than it ever has. Not so much as a question - just wham and start.

The engine close to the oil filler / passenger side will only give a few clicks and thats it. nothing more.

Any ideas?

I do notice that the Negative and positive wires to that engine are getting extremely hot to touch after continual attempts to start.

The spark plugs are not in the greatest of shape.

Im not getting any "cranking" when putting the igintion leads onto the grounding plate. just a loud click and then a "whine"


Have also had to remove the switches and replace due to faults. All have been checked and found to be working. I know dont have the "twin set battery" set up - should the two wires for this be connected or just left taped in the steering wheel bay?

The battery in use at the moment is one that that is a deep cycle and recomended for Large 4 wds.

I do have a long continuous squeel from the beeper that seems to get louder at each attempt.

should i go back to the twin battery set up and see what happens? - Really dont want

Any help will be valuable as im trying to sell the boat and what it gone quickily - Boss has the foot down.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Single battery...

HI Everyone, well it has happened finally the boat is finished and ready to take out and as we all know, something went wrong.

In Summary one of the engines will not start.

The twin battery set up has been changed to a single type doing the start up modification.

Before the mods both engines started one needed the "Two battery switch" to really turn over.

The engine directly behind the steering wheel started stronger than it ever has. Not so much as a question - just wham and start.

The engine close to the oil filler / passenger side will only give a few clicks and thats it. nothing more.

Any ideas?

I do notice that the Negative and positive wires to that engine are getting extremely hot to touch after continual attempts to start.

The spark plugs are not in the greatest of shape.

Im not getting any "cranking" when putting the igintion leads onto the grounding plate. just a loud click and then a "whine"


Have also had to remove the switches and replace due to faults. All have been checked and found to be working. I know dont have the "twin set battery" set up - should the two wires for this be connected or just left taped in the steering wheel bay?

The battery in use at the moment is one that that is a deep cycle and recomended for Large 4 wds.

I do have a long continuous squeel from the beeper that seems to get louder at each attempt.

should i go back to the twin battery set up and see what happens? - Really dont want

Any help will be valuable as im trying to sell the boat and what it gone quickily - Boss has the foot down.

No, for the moment, stay with the single battery hook up. The engine that is showing high power cranking amps is the motor that is closest to the battery. This is normally the case because the ground for that motor runs tiredtl to that battery.

Your wires are getting hot for a couple reasons. Your either running the starter to long trying to get a crank, heating up the wires or, what I figure to be your problem is connections.......

Your twin engine set up. You should have one ground running to the battery from the closest engine, usually the starboard. Then, you should have a ground wire running from the mag of the starboard motor to the port sinde motor ground.

Suggestion, change the gage of your grounding wire. Go to Advanced auto parts and buy a ground strap long enough to reach the port enigne and connect it to the starboard at a good, clean point to make the best connection. If you've changed out your hot wire to a smaller gage wire, chane it back to.

Lastly, your starter has a hot wire running to it but in most cases, is of proper gage size. If you changed it out or messed with it, make sure you clean it and got a nice tight connection.

If your starter is dragging or not long from burning up, you might have a weak starter because it's not long from going out. You might change out your starter from the good engine to be sure fre buying a newoonelllllllll:cheers:

 

[achtungbabi]

Hi Snipe,
Let me try this again as i may have confused you. The Motor that is starting and is really easy to start is directly behind the drivers seat - Furtherest from the battery.

The Wiring hasnt been changed at all through to the engines or the starter or through to the mpem - ( grey control box) are the ones that are getting hot.

The engine that wont start is the engine is ( when sitting in the drivers seat furtherest away) closest to the battery.

In the single battery mod all i have done is removed the current terminals and replaced with on big single one for both the positive and negative..

There are two main concerns. One no start obviously and two that the engine has started previously from the two battery set up.

Would it be an idea to get the same guage ground wire and run directly from each starter directly to the battery?

 

[mudpie]

you first need to determine if it is elecrical or mechanical
take a known good battery and a set of good jumper cables
attach jumper cable black end and clamp to a known good engine ground.
make sure this ground point is clean and proper, try to go to a nice clean point on the engine avoiding any suspect ponits that might corrupt this test
take red lead of cable and apply to the red wire going to the starter motor, taking care that you do not let the jumper lead touch any metal other than the lug on the starter.
set your know good battery outside of engine compartment and attach only the red lead to + post on battery.
then you will apply the black lead to negative post of battery, put it on firm and hold there for a second, it will spark a bit as you make contact and the starter motor will start to spin.
YOU MAKE THIS CONNECTION OUTSIDE THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT SO THE SPARKS WILL NOT IGNITE ANY FUEL VAPORS, BE CAREFULL !!!
if the starter turns over normal, then you do have some sort of electrical isssue.
if not then its mechanical, bad starter, siezing engine,siezing pump.
remove all leads and jumpers, pull plugs out of engine and try to rotate the engine by hand, this should have some resistance but you should be able to do it , rotate engine back and forth by hand and see how she feels
if tight they maybe mechanical issuse
good luck and keep us posted
mud

 

[achtungbabi]

Even with the engine starting previously? all that has been changed is the battery and the terminals nothing else. Seems unlikely to be a mechanical problem. Will try the starter test tonight. is the starter hard to get to ?

 

[kustomkarl]

No it isn't. You could just jump across the starter solenoid to see if the starter kicks over. The starter is easy to locate if you follow the hot wire from the mpem box.

Karl

 

[achtungbabi]

And if the starter kicks it would most likely be a connection or grounding issue?

Is teh best way to cross the starter solinoid the old way car way with a screw driver touching both points or do you have a better suggestion?

 

[kustomkarl]

Use a piece of insulated wire to jump across the posts. The ground wire must have a good connection to allow the starter to kick, from a full cycle of power.

Karl

 

[seadoodude1]

I use a metal wrench or screw driver to jump posts on solenoid. To me if the wires are getting hot there may be internal corrosion, replace the wires and a larger gauge wire won't hurt.

 

[mudpie]

in your first post you said one engine needed the " two batt postion"
this was before your batt mods, right?
this is what is making me think you had a problem before your mods
did you pull plugs from ill engine and try to rotate by hand yet
just curious
mud

 

[achtungbabi]

Hi mud,

No problems before the mod. It was a little hard to start but did evntually kick. I think it mught be a gounding problem as i was yanking on the wires a little when doing the mod to get a little more room.

Other problem that the Garage i have the Boat in is at about 45 degress celesius due to a massive heat wave. so any more than two minuts in there and is frying this little aussie shrimp.

Will get a chance to test hopfully this weekend.

Cheers.

 

[achtungbabi]

HI everyone,

Well the heat wave has surpased and can finally get into the garage. have take off teh exhaust and got to the starter. Cleaned off both Ground points. Checked the new battery battery terminals to make sure i had a good connection and still only get a Loud click then a whine. Wires still getting hot. and no turn over.

I havent had a chance to try and turn over by hand.

I have test with the spark wires on the grounding points and i get the same click and whine.

have checked all fuses.

I feel i only have two options 1 try the starter from the motor that is kicking very easily

or 2 take it to shop and get them to fix it.

I have tried going from the battery directly to the starter and it does seem to crank just very poorly.

have also tried adding an extra ground wire directly to the starter and back to the battery

What else can i try ? Desperate to sell it so any advice very very welcome.

 

[kustomkarl]

It sounds like it is down to 2 things...either the engine is seized or has experienced a seizure, or the starter / bendix is the problem for engagement. As mentioned early in the thread pull the spark plugs and rotate by hand in a counter clockwise direction then if it turns free, remove the starter assembly to look for problems there.

Karl

 

[achtungbabi]

thanks for that Karl,

whats the procedure for spinning by hand?

would i be worthwhile swapping the starter from the good engine to the bad to see if it is just the starter?

 

[kustomkarl]

That might do it but just take out the spark plugs and at the drive shaft at the PTO end of the engine see if you can turn the shaft under the boot by hand, counterclockwise. It should turn over pretty easy.If it is really tight it might be the problem ...a seized engine. Swapping out the starter is a pain in the butt..

Karl

 

[achtungbabi]

HI Guys,

Im more talking what needs to come off so i can spin by hand? if im kneeling on the seats looking at the engine do i take off the white cover closest to me and try and turn ?

Whats the course of action if it is a seized motor? is it likely to un seize? or is a rebuild in order?

 

[kustomkarl]

If memory serves me right on the rear of the engine. Is a cover with 2 wing nuts, remove it and you will see a rubber boot on a PTO (Power Take Off) You should be able to turn it by hand rotating it counter clockwise. If it is really tight...use the other engine to compare it to, it might be seized and require a tear down...if it turns the same as other engine with the spark plugs, out it must be the starter or starter bendix...As I mentioned in previous posts.

Karl

 

[achtungbabi]

Sorry karl whats all that in plan english. If kneeling on the seats looking at the motor are you talking near the seats or near the stern ?

 

[kustomkarl]

If memory serves me right on the rear of the engine. Is a cover with 2 wing nuts, remove it and you will see a rubber boot on a PTO (Power Take Off) You should be able to turn it by hand rotating it counter clockwise. If it is really tight...use the other engine to compare it to, it might be seized and require a tear down...if it turns the same as other engine with the spark plugs, out it must be the starter or starter bendix...As I mentioned in previous posts.

Karl

That's toward the stern...you will be wanting to turn the shaft...jet pump shaft, under the boot...