Starter just "clicks" 96 GTS 587

[Arriva2001]

HI,
I had my SeaDoo out this weekend, and all was well for awhile...but then when I went to start it for a run, the starter just barely turned over, and then basically "clicks" and maybe turns a tiny bit from what I can hear. Seemed weird since the battery had just been charged the night before driving out to the lake.

I thought maybe the battery was shot (it is a year old), so I took it in to be tested. The auto parts place said the test result came back fine, but that it made a strange popping sound and took a moment before their tester would register it...so he thought there might be something wrong with the battery not showing up on their test.

Thinking that might be the case, I bought a new battery (I can always use a spare), and I got it charged up and once it installed it, the same symptom. Starter just clicks a little and barely turns over.

What are some things I can try to test on my own to determine if there is something wrong other than the starter itself? I watched a youtube video for how to replace the starter...and I don't think I have all of the right allen wrenches and proper tools (or skills) to do that myself.

I was hoping there might be a simple "gotcha" I'm not thinking of that I could try before taking it to the shop? And if I do take it to a shop (I trust the local independent mechanic), is there anything I should be thinking about when getting a new starter? Do they sell refurbished starters, or is a new one better? I saw some on ebay...but the price seems to be 'get what you pay for...'

Thanks in advance for your help.

Adam

 

[JeremyD615]

Try pulling the plug and grounding the spark plug wires on their posts. See if the motor will turn over without those plugged it in.

 

[Arriva2001]

I tried removing the spark plugs and putting the wires on those orange posts, and it acts the same way. I removed the plastic cover over the flywheel and tried turning it manually and it turns ok...so doesn't seem seized up.

 

[JeremyD615]

In that case I would pick up a rebuild kit for your original starter. They are much less expensive and seem to last longer than the aftermarket ones.

 

[AKnarrowback]

Have you ever replaced the starter? It sounds like it needs to be pulled out and checked over. Bad or worn out brushes can produce the symptoms you are describing.

A rebuilt OEM starter is better than a brand new aftermarket.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

One more thing not mentioned yet, grab a pair of pliers and jump the two large posts on the starter solenoid and see if it cranks over that way. If it cranks good, then the solenoid is the issue.

Could also be a corroded battery cable, salt eats them from the inside out if you've been in salty water that could be the issue.

Other than that, yeah possibly starter,

 

[Arriva2001]

I've never replaced the starter, and I'm pretty sure it's the original. This ski is new to me in the last year, and i've really only done basic maintenance items like replacing the grey fuel lines and small oil lines, new battery, etc. I don't "Think" the ski has been in saltwater, but it's pretty old, so anything's possible. I will try bypassing the starter solenoid with a pliers as you suggest. Is the idea that the pliers will just connect the circuit? And insulation on the handle will keep me from getting zapped? Anything I should be paying close attention to? I'm just sort of getting into mechanical things, so don't want to electrocute myself or something! Also, is there any sort of schematic or diagram that helps me see where the starter is even located on this thing? I have seen two different sea doo you tube videos and i'm a little unclear if it's under the exhaust manifold side or on the carb side.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yes that's correct, the pliers are just jumping around the starter solenoid manually in case the solenoid isn't working properly.

I don't expect you'll get zapped by holding the pliers in your hand, but make sure the pliers aren't contacting something else metal or you may get a nice big spark and hot flying metal bits.

There are manuals and diagrams for the '96 GTX floating around the interwebs I believe. The service manual supplement I think, contains the schematic.

 

[Ckrawiec]

To recap.....the ski started and ran ok for awhile. You stopped the ski, then it wouldn’t restart.
1) check battery voltage, should be 12.4 or better
2) check rear electric box connection on top, look for corrosion on Red/purple wire and pins
3) inside rear electric box, check for good clean connections on solenoid terminals
4) check Red/purple wire And 15 volt fuse inside rear box
5) check for good clean and tight grounds to ignition coil
6) check continuity from Red/purple wire in front electric box all the way back to rear box
7) check fuses 5 and 15 amp in front electric box
8) look for any corrosion and clean connections along the way, disconnect and reconnect harness connections along the way
These things cost nothing and could make a difference, report back if anything changes

 

[Ckrawiec]

I tried removing the spark plugs and putting the wires on those orange posts, and it acts the same way. I removed the plastic cover over the flywheel and tried turning it manually and it turns ok...so doesn't seem seized up.

You mean the plastic cover over the drive shaft? The flywheel is under the engine cover towards the front of the ski. How did you pull back the drive shaft carbon seal?

 

[Arriva2001]

Thank you for the checklist, I'm going to try to walk through this tomorrow and see what I can find! I have a couple of questions. I'm definitely a "newbie" with all of this. Comments in green. I appreciate your time to help me think through this!

You are correct about the series of events. The craft started well the last few times this last weekend Started great on the trailer and a handful more times over the day. But it was hard to start the last time it ran (i think it was flooded) and then the next time...just clicks.

1) check battery voltage, should be 12.4 or better--Battery is brand new fully charged.
2) check rear electric box connection on top, look for corrosion on Red/purple wire and pins--I'm not sure what the rear electric box is. There is a grey box on the left side (very close to battery) that I haven't opened up yet that I believe contains the bulk of the electronic components on this GTS). Is there another box that i need to be looking at? (This will probably apply to the items below as well)
3) inside rear electric box, check for good clean connections on solenoid terminals--I'm going to check the starter solenoid for sure, as it sounds like this is a potential culprit.
4) check Red/purple wire And 15 volt fuse inside rear box
5) check for good clean and tight grounds to ignition coil
6) check continuity from Red/purple wire in front electric box all the way back to rear box
7) check fuses 5 and 15 amp in front electric box
8) look for any corrosion and clean connections along the way, disconnect and reconnect harness connections along the way -- i haven't seen any corrosion yet, but I will test these one at a time by process of elimination. This ski has been in landlocked Nebraska...so I think saltwater corrosion is out of the picture.

On your other comment--I'm probably using the wrong terminology--but I am talking about the gray plastic piece near the rear of the GTS (where drive shaft goes from inside to outside the craft). I removed two nylon wingnuts to remove a plastic shield, and now I can see a disk that turns with the motor and driveshaft. I can turn that by hand which is turning the engine over.

 

[Arriva2001]

For some reason, the green isn’t showing up on my mobile device—but my comments are inline with the items. Also—on your other comment...I might not be using correct terminology. I removed gray plastic cover where driveshaft goes from inside to outside of the hull (just a couple of nylon wingnuts to remove it). I could turn the wheel in that area that turns the engine. Maybe that’s not the flywheel but instead some sort of driveshaft wheel?

 

[JeremyD615]

For some reason, the green isn’t showing up on my mobile device—but my comments are inline with the items. Also—on your other comment...I might not be using correct terminology. I removed gray plastic cover where driveshaft goes from inside to outside of the hull (just a couple of nylon wingnuts to remove it). I could turn the wheel in that area that turns the engine. Maybe that’s not the flywheel but instead some sort of driveshaft wheel?

That’s the PTO and cover. Since the motor is not locked up, you can move forward and jump the solenoid to see if that turns the motor over. If it does, your starter is good and we need to dig into the solenoid or it’s wiring. If not, you need to rebuild the starter.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Thank you for the checklist, I'm going to try to walk through this tomorrow and see what I can find! I have a couple of questions. I'm definitely a "newbie" with all of this. Comments in green. I appreciate your time to help me think through this!

You are correct about the series of events. The craft started well the last few times this last weekend Started great on the trailer and a handful more times over the day. But it was hard to start the last time it ran (i think it was flooded) and then the next time...just clicks.

1) check battery voltage, should be 12.4 or better--Battery is brand new fully charged. - Don't ASSUME a brand new battery is not at fault, I've had new batteries that have given me fits. It's NEW to you, you don't know how long its been sitting somewhere....skis need good voltage to get them started (12.4 or better). Test the voltage across the battery terminals as you try to start the ski...if the voltage drops significantly with no start....the battery is suspect.
2) check rear electric box connection on top, look for corrosion on Red/purple wire and pins--I'm not sure what the rear electric box is. There is a grey box on the left side (very close to battery) that I haven't opened up yet that I believe contains the bulk of the electronic components on this GTS). Is there another box that i need to be looking at? (This will probably apply to the items below as well) - You are in the right place...my box is black, yours is grey.....this box should contain the starter solenoid and the ignition coil and possibly/probably a 15 volt fuse (with Red/purple wire to the Red terminal on the solenoid), with a 6 pin connection on top of it....the Red/Purple brings AC voltage produced by the stator, through the rectifier (which converts it to DC voltage - greater than 12 volts) and feeds that voltage back to the battery to maintain the battery charge....THIS IS NOT TECHNICALLY A CHARGING CIRCUIT like a car alternator....the higher voltage just keeps the battery maintained....it sounds like your ski is NOT producing the voltage to keep your battery up to snuff, thus your difficulty with subsequent restarts....the battery is "weakened" every time its used to try to re-start the ski, so unless the fuel and spark and voltage are all in sync....the re-start tries are further weakening the battery.
3) inside rear electric box, check for good clean connections on solenoid terminals--I'm going to check the starter solenoid for sure, as it sounds like this is a potential culprit.
4) check Red/purple wire And 15 volt fuse inside rear box
5) check for good clean and tight grounds to ignition coil
6) check continuity from Red/purple wire in front electric box all the way back to rear box
7) check fuses 5 and 15 amp in front electric box
8) look for any corrosion and clean connections along the way, disconnect and reconnect harness connections along the way -- i haven't seen any corrosion yet, but I will test these one at a time by process of elimination. This ski has been in landlocked Nebraska...so I think saltwater corrosion is out of the picture. - CORROSION happens in salt and/or fresh water.....moisture is the culprit (salt corrosion is worse).

On your other comment--I'm probably using the wrong terminology--but I am talking about the gray plastic piece near the rear of the GTS (where drive shaft goes from inside to outside the craft). I removed two nylon wingnuts to remove a plastic shield, and now I can see a disk that turns with the motor and driveshaft. I can turn that by hand which is turning the engine over.

- Yep, the grey cover is a shield so you don't/can't touch a spinning drive shaft and or the carbon ring seal...so that shield is very important for safety. BTW, did you notice a grease fitting on the disk closer to the engine side of the ski....a little grease in the fitting will help push the carbon ring seal....not a lot, but I pushed some grease into that fitting and watched as the boot swelled up slightly and pushed the ring seal tight.....I bought my ski USED so I can't testify to its previous life and or maintenance.

 

[Arriva2001]

Yeah I did see that grease fitting and added three pumps of grease. I didn’t know how much is too much so I stopped there. I didn’t notice the rubber boot swell or anything.

 

[Ckrawiec]

"SWELL" might be too strong of a word....when I was pushing in the grease, the boot plumped up a bit and the carbon seal moved towards the back of the ski ever so slightly, no grease came out (I was watching closely since I didn't know how much to push in either)....I only did a pump or two on the grease gun...I've had no issues with that part of the ski (not to intimate that there was a problem, but like I said....the ski was USED to me so I don't know if that grease fitting ever was used...but it's obviously there for a reason)

 

[Arriva2001]

Yes...I’m learning you have to “assume the worst” when it comes to the previous owner and maintenance. I haven’t had any issues that I know of from the carbon seal and driveshaft. I planned to wait until this off-season and remove the pump and check everything over, wear ring, impeller, add new oil, etc.

 

[Arriva2001]

So I did the test with the pliers on the starter solenoid, and the starter started to move. I would say it sounded "different" than it would if it were normally starting the sea doo. It just sounded like it was slowly turning, but wasn't engaging fast enough to spin the engine. Is that what the result was supposed to be like if the solenoid is bad? I have a video of what it sounded like, but couldn't figure out how to attach a .mov fie to the forum. I guess I'll buy a solenoid, because I know that was a problem. I'm hoping the starter isn't also bad.

 

[Arriva2001]

maybe this will work? IMG_6760.MOV

 

[JeremyD615]

If the starter began to engage with the solenoid jumped, the starter is going to be your problem. I’d pull it to make sure it’s an OEM starter and then order a rebuild kit for it. They’re about $20 on Amazon.

 

[JeremyD615]

Scratch that, after seeing the video, I would say it is the solenoid or the wiring to/from it... It sounds like the starter itself is turning the motor as it should.

 

[Arriva2001]

thank you for helping me troubleshoot this. So I will order a new solenoid and replace that as a first step. Once I replace that, do I just put it all back together and see what happens? Or should I be somehow testing some of those other wires while I have it all taken apart now?

 

[JeremyD615]

You can go ahead and troubleshoot the wiring coming from the switch/MPEM. See if you have voltage to the solenoid when you hit the start/stop button.

 

[Ckrawiec]

Starter sounds fine....take spark plugs out to reduce load on the engine....she should crank easier with plugs out too.
I’d chase down wiring....I wrote a long novel today about how to chase the wiring through the ski....I’ll link that in tomorrow.
Have we discussed carbs yet?.. old skis need carb cleaning love

 

[Ckrawiec]

Never mind about the carbs....I just saw your other post about removing the inline fuel filter and the ski was running.....that sorta takes the carbs out of the equation. We are back to Electrical.....quite solvable, I’m sure....just a little troubleshooting and patience to narrow down the issue.