JeremyD615
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind, it’s really not that difficult to remove the exhaust if you need to. Just make sure you have the gaskets on hand...
Starter just "clicks" 96 GTS 587
- Thread starter Arriva2001
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Arriva2001
Member
That’s a good point. I definitely do not!
AKnarrowback
Well-Known Member
The brushes in the starter are a wear item. No matter how well you maintain the machine they will fail in time. The commutator also gets contamination and wear over time.
With a machine as old as this one is, and the symptoms you are descrbing, the starter is the first place I would start.
With a machine as old as this one is, and the symptoms you are descrbing, the starter is the first place I would start.
Ckrawiec
Well-Known Member
Geez...this whole time I never even indicated/mentioned the "signal" wire to the solenoid to activate it (i.e click). On my '96 there is a Yellow/red wire to the solenoid that tells the solenoid to click, thus bridging the internal posts to allow battery voltage to flow to the starter.
So, in your case....your signal wire appears to be good (as you hear the click of the solenoid). The Yellow/red comes from the ECM, so you at least have that. IF the starter is "weak", we have to first consider 1) battery voltage may not be enough to turn the starter over forcefully (really need full 12.6 V DC) or 2) the solenoid is impeding the flow of battery voltage through it (burnt spots internally) or 3) your solenoid connections are compromising the flow of battery voltage (clean them - bright and tight) or 4) the cables themselves to the a) RED battery to solenoid b) RED solenoid to starter c) Black battery to starter are contributors.
Tangent: I once bought a pickup truck from a friend...friend says it won't start anymore, get it OFF my driveway. OK, I pulled it home....Black Battery cable to starter looked fine on the outside (insulation sheathing intact, ends clean).....tested it...no continuity through the cable - huh?....cut the insulation off...the cable was corroded to powder inside. All new battery / starter cables...truck started fine, never had to do another thing to it. SIMPLE stuff first!
So, in your case....your signal wire appears to be good (as you hear the click of the solenoid). The Yellow/red comes from the ECM, so you at least have that. IF the starter is "weak", we have to first consider 1) battery voltage may not be enough to turn the starter over forcefully (really need full 12.6 V DC) or 2) the solenoid is impeding the flow of battery voltage through it (burnt spots internally) or 3) your solenoid connections are compromising the flow of battery voltage (clean them - bright and tight) or 4) the cables themselves to the a) RED battery to solenoid b) RED solenoid to starter c) Black battery to starter are contributors.
Tangent: I once bought a pickup truck from a friend...friend says it won't start anymore, get it OFF my driveway. OK, I pulled it home....Black Battery cable to starter looked fine on the outside (insulation sheathing intact, ends clean).....tested it...no continuity through the cable - huh?....cut the insulation off...the cable was corroded to powder inside. All new battery / starter cables...truck started fine, never had to do another thing to it. SIMPLE stuff first!
Arriva2001
Member
so, slow going, but I did get the new solenoid today. Installed it. I also sanded the battery cable ends so there was good contact. Hooked it all up again.....and kinda the same response. I do not hear a "click" anymore when I press start/stop.
However..i also do not have the starter doing anything at all..just like before. I did the same test with the new solenoid as the old one (to make sure I'm not moving backwards) by doing the "jump" with pliers, and the starter starts to move...but way way way too slow. This might be a dumb question---but if I know the battery is 12.8 volts (tested it!) is there any way to directly hook the battery up to that starter--without having to remove it. So in other words...avoid all of the other electrical components between the battery and starter....just to see if the starter is the problem? Or is it not that simple?
I looked at that gray box with all of the wiring in it, and it looks as new as it would have when it left the factory (very surprising considering the outside of the box). Fuses were intact and looked brand new. So I'm kind of thinking the wiring may be OK.
However..i also do not have the starter doing anything at all..just like before. I did the same test with the new solenoid as the old one (to make sure I'm not moving backwards) by doing the "jump" with pliers, and the starter starts to move...but way way way too slow. This might be a dumb question---but if I know the battery is 12.8 volts (tested it!) is there any way to directly hook the battery up to that starter--without having to remove it. So in other words...avoid all of the other electrical components between the battery and starter....just to see if the starter is the problem? Or is it not that simple?
I looked at that gray box with all of the wiring in it, and it looks as new as it would have when it left the factory (very surprising considering the outside of the box). Fuses were intact and looked brand new. So I'm kind of thinking the wiring may be OK.
Arriva2001
Member
of course, as you say, looks can be deceiving--as the corrosion could be from the inside. I'm just wondering if I can jump to the starter first and work my way back to the switch? Since some have already suggested the 23 year old starter is probably worn out.
AKnarrowback
Well-Known Member
You can go direct from the positive terminal on the battery to the terminal at the rear of the starter and do a test. But the clearances between that rear post and grounded parts of the motor are pretty tight, be very careful.
Arriva2001
Member
I found this video and I think I'm going to try going this route to remove the starter. At the very worst....i'll not be able to get it out, and I'll have to remove the exhaust. But that sounds like what I was gonna have to do anyway. If this is really a 20 min thing (doubting anything is that easy for me 
--but hopefully easier than removing all of the exhaust parts...) then maybe i just pull it out and test it out of the craft to avoid touching positive to the ground parts of the motor.
--but hopefully easier than removing all of the exhaust parts...) then maybe i just pull it out and test it out of the craft to avoid touching positive to the ground parts of the motor.
Ckrawiec
Well-Known Member
You can do that by connecting the solenoid posts with a screwdriver....that should put full battery juice directly to the starter. The battery black should already be connected to the starter.....you can also just touch battery red to starter red ( those are right there on top of the solenoid posts). Did you find a wire connected to the battery red side of the solenoid inside the rear box through a 15 amp fuse?
Arriva2001
Member
yes, there was a smaller (maybe 12 gauge?) red wire connected to the big post on the solenoid on the battery side.
Arriva2001
Member
oh one thing though...you said "rear box." There is only one box on the GTS (that I've found!) and it is on the port side next to the oil/gas tank. That one had the solenoid and the small wire you are describing.
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock
Well-Known Member
If the starter is rolling over slowly as the solenoid is jumped, the issue is either the battery, large gauge battery cables are corroded, or the starter itself is no longer up to the task.
If water entered the starter, this will cause corrosion, the shaft bushings and brushes have lived a full life in that wet bilge so a rebuild isn't out of the question by any means.
The new solenoid may be defective if it's no longer clicking when you press the start button.
If water entered the starter, this will cause corrosion, the shaft bushings and brushes have lived a full life in that wet bilge so a rebuild isn't out of the question by any means.
The new solenoid may be defective if it's no longer clicking when you press the start button.
94pattyspride
Member
I had the same thing happen. It would just click several times then once in a while the starter would engage, then finally, it would not. I opened up the electrical box and found the 5 amp fuse blown and corroded and the solenoid questionable. See picture below. I replaced the fuse and solenoid and cleaned all the wire connector ends and fuse holder, etc. $25 for the solenoid and $1 for the fuse, after that it turns over every time.
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Arriva2001
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Well I ordered a starter rebuild kit and am going to try to remove the starter over the weekend. Wish me luck! It’s 99° here and I just have a shaded garage with no AC!
Arriva2001
Member
I’m hoping the new solenoid isn’t defective—but I guess I’ll find out soon enough! I hung onto the old one and can return the new one to Amazon if needed.
Arriva2001
Member
Ok. I removed the starter today using the long ratchet extension and really “feeling around” in the compartment. After all the hugging of the engine I had to do to loosen those bolts...I feel much closer to the sea doo now lol! Couple questions for you all. When I loosened the bolts and starter got a little loose...I heard a lot of hissing..like pressure being released. And a powerful smell. Not sure how to describe it. Anyway...removed starter and tested it and it’s dead. Was the weird pressure release normal or anything to be concerned with? Also. I’m going to post a couple starter pictures. Does this look worth rebuilding? Very very rusty.
Arriva2001
Member
...also, I kind of want to replace the positive and negative wires as a precaution. Anywhere to source those, or is it just standard automotive wiring with a certain gauge? And then add crimp connectors for the connection points?
I would gebuild t and use a rust stopping epoxy like POR15.
For battery cables I make my own using Bestboatwire.com Westside Powersports makes really nice cables if you don't want to DIY.
That pressure was probably in the Magneto housing but not really sure why. The good news is that if you had a leaking crank seal or gaskets there would not be any pressure.
For battery cables I make my own using Bestboatwire.com Westside Powersports makes really nice cables if you don't want to DIY.
That pressure was probably in the Magneto housing but not really sure why. The good news is that if you had a leaking crank seal or gaskets there would not be any pressure.
AKnarrowback
Well-Known Member
Without a doubt rebuild it.
Ckrawiec
Well-Known Member
When you say "dead"...you hooked up a good 12V battery to the positive bolt post and the black to the black and the starter did absolutely nothing? Even a weak starter would give a little spin on the bendix....if you truly got nothing...you know where to start anyway.
FWIW....I've had starters that I've hooked directly to batteries to test and they jumped to life...I'm thinking its good.....I would take them to old timer mechanics to get their opinion and they would say "too weak". Hooked a battery to a brand new starter and - YEP, what a difference.....
Arriva2001
Member
I hooked directly to a battery (brand new fully charged reading 12.8) on the starter posts and starter barely turned over. Certainly not fast enough to push the small gear up the shaft to engage the engine.
Arriva2001
Member
I posted in the wrong place...but yes. Starter moved a little bit when connected to good strong battery.
Ckrawiec
Well-Known Member
Re-build it...its time. FWIW...new ones aren't that expensive either....whatever floats your boat (bad pun!-sorry)
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