Priming new fuel lines... Help!!!

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stonekolb

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i just changed all the fuel and vent lines along with rebuilding of carbs on my 94xp. im trying to start it but not able to get fuel yet. tank is in good condition as well as the fuel. baffle is new in tank too. i've seen other threads that talk about in order to get fuel after changing lines you have to pour a cap full of gas in the carbs to get the engine running for about 10-15 sec which is how long it takes to get the pulse line to start getting fuel to the carbs on its own. is that true or is there other processes i should go through instead? thanks alot for your help!!!

tim
 
make sure, lines are on the right fittings, and that the inline filter cup, is tight, and gas selector is on/res. With good battery, should pull gas, no problem.
 
Fuel delivery Routeing

Knowing your carbs and fuel system is clean and flowing properly is very important on old motors. A clean fuel system and carbs will go along way to keep you from needing a new motor premateurly.

Open gas cap in case any pressure is in there, then re-tighten. Remove the gas supply line from carb
and put the hose end into a catch bottle. Remove the fuel return gas line from carb nipple and blow a small amount of air chuck pressure into return line. Watch routing fuel flow from
supply in a bottle, IF it routes good, the carb is faulty from a clog or pump diaphram has a hole.
Check pulse tube for clog, it operates the fuel pump with a push-pull or suck-blow as pistons
go up-down in engine case, that is how the mag carb pump actuates route pressure thru the carb, and back into gas tank . A WD-40 straw works good for that. Attach a 2'short fuel line to the tube and if you can blow into the crank-case, its clear of debris.
On dual carb systems, when the mag carb (it gets fuel first) clogs and the PTO carb starves as a result, and that cylinder runs lean, then seizes first. Running lean can cause Glow-plugging and the engine will Rev run-away. Pulling off the lanyard will not help. Asphyxiating by pulling choke and opening throttle may stop engine run-away. Pulling spark wires may injure you and not kill engine as its getting fire from burning piston carbon or red hot spark plug.
Any SeaDoo or other jetski with OEM grey tempo fuel lines will need the entire fuel system rebuilt due to known problems with internal fuel-line deterioration & resin goo clogging up the small internal carborator filters, fuel selector valve and most other fuel system components. Symptoms also include engine bogging at higher speeds (3500 rpm). Continued riding will cause carbonizing & a burned aluminum pistons and engine failure due to lean fuel/air mixtures and high combustion temps. The only solution is to replace ALL the fuel lines with standard automotive NAPA lines, clear race Fuel lines like: http://fuellines.biz, or equivalent, rebuild the carborators with rebuild kits,new needle & seats, and replacing the fuel selector valve. It is suggested to install a clear glass marine grade inline fuel filter just before the carborators to catch any remaining debris.
Inspect the fuel separator/filter O-ring and gas tank vent one-way check valve.
 
OK, it's 2010 but I'm working the same problem. Super stuff, but what happens if the fuel does NOT flow into the catch bottle when you blow on the return line? Any suggestion would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
Then you have a line off, a restriction, or the fuel valve is in the Off position.

Hypothetically=#1 the return line goes to tank bafel and dumps into bafel tunnal.
Any unused fuel pressurized by the fuel pump is forced tru the carb(s) and is carried back to the tank via this return line. Gas oxigenates from movement and can breath
fresh air in or expell overpressure from tank tru bafel tunnal #2. line. this is a single connection line has a tee then and adjust the tank's internal pressure via a directional check valve to regulate air direction and will open at approximatly 3-5 psi. tank bafel #3 is a straw that can sip fuel from a depth of 3/4 and is called the
ON line that goes from the bafel to the ON niple of the fuel selector valve. #4 line
is connected to a bafel tunnal strw that goes from the tank bottom tru a line called the reserve line to another nipple on the fuel selector. The fuel can now be sipped tru either line ON or RESERVE or can be closed by the turn of the fuel selector valves position. A third nipple on the valve is the OUT line to the carburetor fuel pump referred to as the SIP or SUPPLY fuel line. Located near the valve the line connects to a water separator/filter that has a removable cup with a filter that can be manually cleaned. The supply line continues to the carb, where the action of the pump draws fuel from the tank and pushes the gas tru the carburetor(s). This circular flow of fuel is an action referred to as "ROUTING". If you did not put the cup on the separator/filter on correctly, or you lost its fitted square "O" ring, the fuel pump will suck air instead of gas from the tank. Or a line is loose/disconnected.
 
Great write up Bills86e!

Bills86e said:
Fuel delivery Routeing

Knowing your carbs and fuel system is clean and flowing properly is very important on old motors. A clean fuel system and carbs will go along way to keep you from needing a new motor premateurly.

Open gas cap in case any pressure is in there, then re-tighten. Remove the gas supply line from carb
and put the hose end into a catch bottle. Remove the fuel return gas line from carb nipple and blow a small amount of air chuck pressure into return line. Watch routing fuel flow from
supply in a bottle, IF it routes good, the carb is faulty from a clog or pump diaphram has a hole.
Check pulse tube for clog, it operates the fuel pump with a push-pull or suck-blow as pistons
go up-down in engine case, that is how the mag carb pump actuates route pressure thru the carb, and back into gas tank . A WD-40 straw works good for that. Attach a 2'short fuel line to the tube and if you can blow into the crank-case, its clear of debris.
On dual carb systems, when the mag carb (it gets fuel first) clogs and the PTO carb starves as a result, and that cylinder runs lean, then seizes first. Running lean can cause Glow-plugging and the engine will Rev run-away. Pulling off the lanyard will not help. Asphyxiating by pulling choke and opening throttle may stop engine run-away. Pulling spark wires may injure you and not kill engine as its getting fire from burning piston carbon or red hot spark plug.
Any SeaDoo or other jetski with OEM grey tempo fuel lines will need the entire fuel system rebuilt due to known problems with internal fuel-line deterioration & resin goo clogging up the small internal carborator filters, fuel selector valve and most other fuel system components. Symptoms also include engine bogging at higher speeds (3500 rpm). Continued riding will cause carbonizing & a burned aluminum pistons and engine failure due to lean fuel/air mixtures and high combustion temps. The only solution is to replace ALL the fuel lines with standard automotive NAPA lines, clear race Fuel lines like: http://fuellines.biz, or equivalent, rebuild the carborators with rebuild kits,new needle & seats, and replacing the fuel selector valve. It is suggested to install a clear glass marine grade inline fuel filter just before the carborators to catch any remaining debris.
Inspect the fuel separator/filter O-ring and gas tank vent one-way check valve.
Click to expand...


I don't know how I missed this one, but great job Bill.

I often read posts where members say they still have the Tempo lines but are experiencing no problems. With all that is in the forum on these lines, it surprises me that some will still wait until it's too late, then end up with the "goo" all through the carbs and fuel circuit.

Great work!.........:cheers:
 
Thanks again. First things first: After reading many posts, about a week ago, I pulled all the gray fuels lines and replaced them with automotive black fuel lines. In the process, I made sure everything is routed correctly. The gas selector is clean, and in the ON position. I have 4 gallons in the tank (also pulled the tank and the fuel pick ups inside the tank (its all clean and serviceable).

I also pulled the carbs, and sort of cleaned them up. That is to say, the diaphrams appear good, I cleaned the little filters, and I sprayed them down with carb cleaner. Not a rebuild but they looked OK, at first blush.

So, today I am following Bills excellent procedure for checking fuel routing. I removed the fuel delivery line at carb # 1, and the return line (after the Y connector, after carb # 2). When I blow in the return line, a trickle of gas flows from the delivery line (more than a trickle but not a gusher).

I also removed the pulse line, and cranked the motor; not a tremendous pulse but it seems to be doing its thing). In one post, someone claimed the pulse could force the hose to collapse upon itself ... there's no way. It gives a pulse but it's not so forceful as to be able to make a line collapse upon itself.

Finally, I followed the directions in the Sea Doo manual and did a little blowing/sucking on the outlets of the 1st (forward) carb. With a hose hooked up to the return nipple, and the fuel inlet open, if I blow, it does not hold pressure; if I cover the fuel inlet and blow in the return line, then it holds pressure. With a hose hooked up to the pulse inlet of the 1st carb, blowing/sucking seems to hold pressure(and alternately blowing / sucking sounds like the pump is running). Finally, if a hose is hooked to the fuel inlet of the 1st carb and the return line is open, I can blow air through; however, if I block the return outlet simultaneously, then I cannot blow air through, but rather it holds pressure. I only experimented with the forward (# 1) carb in this fashion.

Finally, if I throw some premix down the throats, it fires up in a heartbeat but dies due to lack of fuel from the tank.

So, what's next? Does the pulse seem OK to you guys? In spite of my goofy blow-test, Carb rebuild ... anything to check before doing the rebuild?
 
You have the bafel lines in the wrong position. Remove all four, then re-connect.
If you were looking at the Bafel it has each line marked. If you have the two electrical wires at 6 o'clock, the ON is 2 o'clock, return from carb is 4 o'clock, RES
is at 8 o'clock, vent (hull breath line) is 10 o'clock. Use stainless screw clamps on
these, Quality Zip ties also work if taughnt. Re-try air chucking a small amount of
pressure into the return line thats goes to tank bafel nipple position 4 o'clock.
Look at the fuel selector valve to see which is the "ON" and RES line to bafel.
If you put a short clear line on the Mag carb inlet nipple and the other end into a short glass of Pre-mix, if you cranked engine with *plugs out and the *plug wires
put on the grounding lugs on magnito top to prevent spark arcing, you should see
the carb sip gas. If not, the fuel pump is not operating. The case pulse line could
be clogged, or the pump diaphram is shot, indicating the carbs need rebuilt and leak-down tested after re-assembly, then re-installed. Bills86e
 
Last edited by a moderator:
seadoosnipe said:
I don't know how I missed this one, but great job Bill.

I often read posts where members say they still have the Tempo lines but are experiencing no problems. With all that is in the forum on these lines, it surprises me that some will still wait until it's too late, then end up with the "goo" all through the carbs and fuel circuit.

Great work!.........:cheers:
Click to expand...

In my opinion any USCG like Goodyear red stripe are best, Tempo are USCG worst.
Read the side of the fuel lines. See where it says USCG APPROVED ? That is why Sea Doo used those lousy fuel lines, not because Bombardier wanted to use them. It is because they HAD to use them to pass USCG regulations.

My guess is that because of US bueracracy, Sea Doo paid twice as much for the fuel lines with that approval and got a lousy "government approved" product.
 
Bafel lines in wrong position. No way. The baffles are marked ON (for the ON hose, goes to Selector), RET (for return, comes from carbs), RES (for Reserve, goes to selector, and no-mark-at-all, which I assumed was the air vent split line.

Same thing on selector: its marked ON RES and OUT (Out goes to fuel filter, and fuel filter has a second line, which feeds the inlet on carb # 1.

I'll check, but there's no way the lines are mixed up. However, I like the rest of the post. I'll try the short line and feeder bottle. I'm going to check the pulse line again too. But my guess is the carbs need rebuilt.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll try again tomorrow ... and I'll make sure the pulse is clear too .
 
Something I have on my ski and will prolly add to my boat is a small clear lawn mower fuel filter in the engine bay, when you have this you can see tiny or big bubbles indicating air, could be selector seals are pooped out or filter/water seperator is not sealed well - use a dab of oil on the o-ring sometimes it get squished out while turning the bowl on.
 
Different ways...

rgp717 said:
Bafel lines in wrong position. No way. The baffles are marked ON (for the ON hose, goes to Selector), RET (for return, comes from carbs), RES (for Reserve, goes to selector, and no-mark-at-all, which I assumed was the air vent split line.

Same thing on selector: its marked ON RES and OUT (Out goes to fuel filter, and fuel filter has a second line, which feeds the inlet on carb # 1.

I'll check, but there's no way the lines are mixed up. However, I like the rest of the post. I'll try the short line and feeder bottle. I'm going to check the pulse line again too. But my guess is the carbs need rebuilt.

Thanks again for all the help. I'll try again tomorrow ... and I'll make sure the pulse is clear too .
Click to expand...


When you work with the twin carb system, you'll notice there are pointer arrows on the plates on the forward end of them. On your mag carb, the nipple at the center top of the first plate is for your pulse line. On the bottom, next plate back on the pump is your fuel inlet. Then, the last plate will have two nipples with arrows pointing in and out. The nipple on the plate with the arrow that is pointing in, actually is the cross connect for fuel going to the PTO carb. That line is connected to the plate which has the arrow pointing in. Then, the two nipples at the top of the carb left over connect to the "Y" for the return......... That's how I set mine up.

When I want to prime, I normally have the carbs covered with the flame arrestor but not the air box. I take a plastic bag and hold it over the flame arrestor. Doing this causes the intake to create maximum vacuum on the fuel circuit and will draw the fuel into the carbs and engine. When you hear it hit or within 15 seconds, then let go and you should be primed.....:cheers:
 
Great post and instructions.

I have a question related to this.
I am going to change my lines tonight and forgot to grab a piece of fuel line off the ski for the size.
I am wanting to stop on the way home from work and get the new fuel line.
What size do i need and any idea how many feet i need to replace everything.
Thanks
 
25' of 1/4" will do one 95GTX. Need instruction, just ask? Lots of Talent to help!

We suggest you start a new thread, and talk about your ski.
We also appriciate any knowledgable comments to help in existing persons threads.
 
We offer further advise to you to use protectant inhibitors. Use a plastic fuel selector valve, use 1/3 of the recommended storage strenght Stabil gas additive during the riding season, liberally bush white litheum grease on your carb bodies, linkages & cables. At launch, open the seat and inspect for gas leakage. Bills86e
 
OK ... some more observations.

1. Bill, thanks for all the tips. However, I believe your mistaken about the 2 4 8 and 10 o'clock positions; the return is at 10 o'clock and the vent is at 4 o'clock. I don't say this lightly, but (1) it's fairly evident by the markings on the baffles (on the tank) and by the markings on the Res/On/Off selector switch, and (2), I have a second 96 GTI (which works) and that's how it is set up also (perhaps a manufacturing change during the model year). The 2 skis have sequential hull numbers, so I bet the came off the production line together.
2. Back to the analysis, I pulled the fuel inlet hose, put some premix in a bottle, and a tube from the bottle to the carb. Worked great. Sucked up the gas in a heartbeat and of course the jet ski ran for a bit (till I turned it off ... 10 sec).
3. I let it sit for a couple of hours, re-established the fuel line, and nothing! What the h...?


Are these things just hard to prime? I'm going to by-pass the fuel filter, and see what happens? If that doesn't work, then I'm going to by pass the selector switch.

I guess I should also mention that these skis are new to me. I picked them up at Xmas from a guy who picked them up from another guy, in trade for work. Long story short: He never ran them and didn't have a clue. So, they probably sat for a while.
 
im havin same problem on my 94 xp. turns over wont start. I replaced lines and rebuilt carbs and set to factory specs. This weekend im gonna check to make sure baffle is hooked up right and pull the return off un hook carb inlet to a bottle and try to blow in it and see if it works. Then ill toss a little premix in the carbs. thanks for the good info guys!
 
I will input this here in case it helps others with their issues.
Picked up 14' of fuel line (all they had in stock) and some hose clamps.
Started disassembly including removing the complete filter housing and the selector switch. What i found is this.. The previous owner was a idoit but that aside the selector switch was clogged on the run side so instead of cleaning it he just switched the lines so the res was the main. Wont bore you with the rest of the details but i was able to replace all the lines except the vents with the 14' i got. I will replace the rest this weekend once i pick up more line. Installed the filter and filled the cup with fuel and screwed it on. Removed the air breather cover but left the metal screen. Poured a small amount of fuel into the carbs thru the screen and it fired right up then stalled. Added a little more fuel and tried it again. Started up and stayed running this time. I spent less than 2 hours from start to finish.
Thanks for the help and hope you guys figure it out.
 
Holy smokes, thank you seadoosnipe for the bag tip. I put a plastic grocery bag (like you get at Krogers) over the carbs, hung on tight (probably should have had the flame arrestor in place, but I didn't), and cranked.

5-10 seconds later, the motor primed and started, and ran. I think these things are just hard to prime. But that's another thread.

Thanks all for the tips, info, etc. I don't regret a thing; new fuel lines, verify fuel flow, verify fuel line hook ups; love the short-bottle and bag tricks.

Hopefully this is closed for me. I'll try starts again over the next couple of days, and post a final confirmation (or more pleas for help).
 
Final Post. Yup, my fuel problem is solved. After a day or so, I need to choke the daylights out of it initially, but after 5 seconds of cranking, it starts (and I see fuel in my return line (a portion of which I replaced with clear line).

So, a final thank you to all. I couldn't have done it without you.
 
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