Penzoil OKAY?

[Teched68123]

Hello,

VERY NEW SeaDoo user here. My question deals with the oil to use with my 2000 3-seater. On the oil access it says DO NOT USE TW3 oil. To use Syntheitc ONLY.

Will it REALLY hurt to use TW3? The synthetic oil runs around $40 a gallon. I can purchase Penziol TW3 at WalMart for $14 a gallon. I thought 2-stroke oil was all the same as long as you got good quality oil.

Thanks ahead of time,

Ron

 

[seadooya]

gonna put diesel in your truck, when the label says "unleaded" fuel only?

Your motor bud...:cheers:

 

[Dr Honda]

gonna put diesel in your truck, when the label says "unleaded" fuel only?

Your motor bud...:cheers:

I put ATF and used motor oil in my truck all the time... and it says Diesel only. :hurray: (sorry, just giving you crap)


Anyway... there are a bunch of threads on here about oil. TC-w3 isn't any good for your engine. You need API-TC certified oil.

The best price will be on Quicksilver PWC oil... or get the new XPS synth blend at your local dealer. if you buy a case... you could probably get it for $26 gal.


What Seadooya is trying to say is... TC-w3 will kill your engine.


if you don't believe us... do a google search of seeaoo oil, and see what you find.

 

[Teched68123]

Yamalube vs Penzoil

Thank you for the information.

Of course there is the problem of people thinking name brand gasoline is the ONLY way to go, but when you go to the refinery you see the same truck running to Shell and then the corner quick stop. I know there is a difference with additives and such, but for my local Yamaha dealer to tell me I HAVE to use Yamalube vs Penzoil when the cost is $45 vs $15 (at WalMart) and Penziol is a superiour oil over YamaLube (I check the spec sheets on both).

Just wondering why TW3 is not acceptable with it is a superior Marine 2-stroke oil?

Thanks ahead of time,

Ron

 

[Dr Honda]

Thank you for the information.



Just wondering why TW3 is not acceptable with it is a superior Marine 2-stroke oil?

I'm not a "Brand Loyal" kind of guy... so none of this info is because I like something because of it's label.

First... let me start by saying this... TC-w3 oil IS NOT a superior marine oil. In many ways... it's crap. TC-w3 was developed to be environmentally friendly. Low smoke, and low residuals. (less oil going into the water) But, it has a lower film strength, and a lower flash point. Because of that, it can not support the horsepower levels that the Rotax engines produce. Also, unlike most engines out there... Rotax uses a rotary valve in the intake. That valve (and it's drive gears) needs the protection of a "Low ash" oil. (zinc, Phosphor, and Sulfur are good high pressure lubricants, but they don't burn) If you look at your engine, you will see 3 hoses going to it. One feeds the injector pump, the other 2 are the feed and return for the rotary gears. TC-w3 will not protect those gears.


Now for the real issue. There are a few reasons for API-TC oil being expensive... the main one is because they are phasing it out of general use, and the certification is expensive. Think about it... if you were an oil manufactuer... would you make oil certified for 90% of the population, or for 10%? In turn... low manufacturing levels run the price up.


The Wal-Mart TC-w3 oil is very high quality. (and it's cheap) I personally use it in my Yamaha SuperJet, and in my Diesel truck to lube it's injector pump. But, my SeaDoo's only get XPS. (since last year, I have switched to the XPS Synth Blend)

 

[Teched68123]

Good info

Hello Tony,

THANK YOU very much for the detail information. The information you gave was the type of informaiton I was looking for.

In general, what brand and what location would you recommend I look at to purchase the oil (I live in Omaha, NE)?

Ron

 

[Dr Honda]

I hope I don't sound like a jack-off... but I guess you only read bits and pieces, as I answered your questions.


I don't live Omaha, so you will have to find a SeaDoo dealer near you.

.......... or get the new XPS synth blend at your local dealer. if you buy a case... you could probably get it for $26 gal.

....... But, my SeaDoo's only get XPS. (since last year, I have switched to the XPS Synth Blend)

If you want to use the Quicksilver PWC oil, that's fine. Some people can get it at Wal-Mart... but I can't find it local to me. So... once again... you will have to find your local source for it.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Great work Dr. Honda...

I'm not a "Brand Loyal" kind of guy... so none of this info is because I like something because of it's label.

First... let me start by saying this... TC-w3 oil IS NOT a superior marine oil. In many ways... it's crap. TC-w3 was developed to be environmentally friendly. Low smoke, and low residuals. (less oil going into the water) But, it has a lower film strength, and a lower flash point. Because of that, it can not support the horsepower levels that the Rotax engines produce. Also, unlike most engines out there... Rotax uses a rotary valve in the intake. That valve (and it's drive gears) needs the protection of a "Low ash" oil. (zinc, Phosphor, and Sulfur are good high pressure lubricants, but they don't burn) If you look at your engine, you will see 3 hoses going to it. One feeds the injector pump, the other 2 are the feed and return for the rotary gears. TC-w3 will not protect those gears.


Now for the real issue. There are a few reasons for API-TC oil being expensive... the main one is because they are phasing it out of general use, and the certification is expensive. Think about it... if you were an oil manufactuer... would you make oil certified for 90% of the population, or for 10%? In turn... low manufacturing levels run the price up.


The Wal-Mart TC-w3 oil is very high quality. (and it's cheap) I personally use it in my Yamaha SuperJet, and in my Diesel truck to lube it's injector pump. But, my SeaDoo's only get XPS. (since last year, I have switched to the XPS Synth Blend)

Going through the thread, I saw were this was going. Then, I read your post... Great work... Pretty much hit the nail on the proverbial head.

The Rotax marine engine is NOT your typical outboard motor. The only thing comarable is it's a 2 stroke motor. The RAVE valves also need the support of the TC-API low ash oil.

There are a few threads from members who signed up just to solve issues from Rotax motor that were running the TC-W3 oils. Running that oil is not going to casue damage that you will notice instantly. It's over a period of time. The motor might last half of what it was designed for.

I personally use the Quicksilver "Full Synthetic" oil from Walmart. It's easily available, cheaper than XPS (which the nearest shop is 2 hours away) and meets all the requirements for the Rotax motor. I've been running it in my GTX and Challenger boat for years. Last year, I took the cylinders off the boat motor and could still read the piston size stamp on the piston head, so its a clean burning oil.......

 

[seadooya]

if yuor wal-mart dont carry the quiksilver "pwc" oil, Bass Pro Shop does.

 

[SurfBeat]

QuickSilver Premimum (not PWC or Premimum Plus)

Thread should read: Not Quicksilver Premium or Premium Plus, Just QS PWC. Having just posted a thread on the bad and the ugly of using TC-W3 in my 587cc, on the advice of SeeDooSnipe and before assembling my engine after a crankshaft replacement, I headed to Wal-Mart to purchase a couple of jugs of QuickSilver PWC oil.

Unfortunately, my trip was unsuccessful because within a 30 mile radius of Riverside, CA, W-M only carries Quicksilver Premium Plus which is a TC-W3 oil.

Not one to be discouraged I visted a local Marine shop and found QS PREMIUM and Premium Plus Oils. The PREMIUM is rated not only TC-W, but also rated API TC, HOWEVER, it is a non-ash oil.

Based upon hours of research on the great oil debate, I've discovered that albeit low ash oils typically provide added protection to an engine, that fact does not necessarily translate into meaning that we should select engine oil based upon whether or not it is ash or ashless, but what is more important is the oil quality classification., i.e., NAMM/TC-W3, API TC, etc.

In light of the forgoing I have a few decisions to make: 1) purchase QS PWC (which is sold in a synthetic formula as well as blend, both low ash oils) or purchase the QS Premium?

Because my 580 engine does not have the RAVE, IMO, full synthetic will not be better for my engine, so, I will pass on that. However, since the QS Premimum is rated both API TC & TC-W3, but is a NO ASH oil, will that protect my engine?

In my case I think I will go the expensive route, sell my Doo's and purchase a pair of Jet Ski's. Under that scenario, I have a greater latitude of oils to purchase.

I've decided on Penzoil blend for my new/old (97) Jet Ski's. See ya on the river and good luck.