Help! 97 XP with water flooded engine

[SquidDaddy]

First some background...

I just bought a 97 XP with the 787 that just had a new top end last season and the carbs rebuilt. An R&D Rec head was installed as part of the new top end and the compressions were at 178 and 180 when I got it. It ran really good during my lake test with the only notable problem seemed to be a bit of difficulty turning over at first but then would spin well then start. The owner said the battery was about 3 years old and could use replacing and that seemed very plausable to me.

I took it to the lake for the first time this past Saturday. It ran fine but still had the same difficulty turning over, so I naturally assumed the battery was slowly going bad. I let my wife then take it for a spin and during her dismount back at the boat, she ended up flipping it upside down. She tried to right it a couple of times without luck so I ended up diving in and getting it right side up...it probably spend 3 minutes upside down. I did roll it the correct direction. It started up again and I rode it another 10 minutes or so and came back to the boat to take a break. Probably an hour later we decided to head in but the ski would just barely turn over and finally not at all. I just figured the battery had finally gone dead....oh well I guess I will have to tow it. Being the owner of a 97 Speedster also, I knew you had to clamp the incoming water hose or tow it very slowly...well I didn't have a clamp so I towed it back at basically just over idle speed on the Speedster....less than the 10mph indicated...for probably a mile or so. When I got home I put the battery on the charger and left it over night....mind you I had no idea that I had flooded the engine with water some how. On Sunday the ski still didn't start so I figured the battery was finally gone so I picked up a new one on Monday. After charging it up all night, I tried it this morning and it was the same...no turning over and just some clicking. So I come back to forums and started searching and everything was pointing to water in the engine.

Current...

Ok so I pulled the plugs and turned it over....oh yes plenty of liquid coming out...oh crap. Well I have done the procedure in the shop manual of cranking a bit....then fogging...then cranking some....then fogging....even after a lot of cranking it always seems like more comes out. When it finally looked dry I put the plugs back in (after cleaning them) and tried to start it. It didn't start and then it wouldn't turn over any more....so I take the plugs back out and they are wet again...so I start that whole procedure over again and so on and so on. I have been doing procedure over the last three hours or so and I can't seem to get all the water out I guess. Ok so this is where I might be missing something or not doing something the correct way....at this point I have just filled the cylinders with the fogging oil and I'm letting it sit and going to wait on some suggestions for this helpful community. Thanks in advance!

-Jeff

 

[kustomkarl]

Well fogging oil is just that...I use wd-40.

Here is some information on a flooded engine...The longer it sits with water in it the worse the damage.

Flooded engine​

The problem isn't so much about the water in the exhaust, but the water that got in the engine. I would get it fired up as quickly as possible so as not to lead to rust and corrosion and possible engine seizure. Remove the spark plugs and leave the caps on the grounding post. Turn the engine over to remove the water from the cylinders. Spray a little wd-40 in the cylinders to help displace the water. Hit the starter for a few seconds at a time letting it cool down abit while trying to get the water out. When it seems like all the water is out insert the spark plugs and get it started. Use the choke or a little fuel and injector oil as a premix to help fire it up. Don't use starting fluid. If it doesn't fire up repeat the procedure. Pull the spark plugs, hit the starter, insert spark plugs get it to fire up. Time is of the essence. the longer it takes to get it fired up the more chance of damage to the internal engine components.

Karl

 

[SquidDaddy]

Thanks Karl.

Your post is exactly what I have been doing...I have even used the WD40 inplace of the fogging oil but I haven't had any luck getting it to fire. About how long do you spray the WD40 into each cylinder? 5 seconds, 15 seconds....then how long to you wait before you turn the engine over....then do you keep cranking it till it stops spitting liquid out? This seems to be part of my problem....it just keeps spitting liquid (not sure if it's water, fuel, oil, WD40, or just a mixture of all of it)...I just can't seem to get it dry and I keep worrying about more damage from cranking without lubrication. Does the WD40 stick to the walls enough to not worry about lube while you are cranking?

 

[kustomkarl]

That's what wd-40 does...it displaces the water and lubricates at the same time. Just a small dab will do it...spray like 3 seconds...keep turning it over till it stops spitting water...now make up some pre-mixed fuel.Use the same oil you usually use... add like 3 oz per cylinder. Install new/ clean dry spark plugs...see if it fires. Keep doing it, the fuel will eventually fire and start up. After it does start connect the hose, start it again and turn the water on. Run it for about 5 minutes. No longer as the impeller bearings and seals aren't getting cooled. They get cooled in the water. Turn off the water and shut the engine down. Let it set and start it again about 20 minutes later. If you can run it in the water it is best, so you can run it to get any extra water out of the engine.

Let me know how it goes.

karl

 

[SquidDaddy]

Well I have about 5hrs in doing this procedure with no luck. Time for a stiff drink and some reflecting on the problem...sigh. I shot some WD40 in the plug holes and it's going to have to sit till tomorrow. I ran a compression check also and got 181psi in the front and 210psi in the rear cylinder...not sure where the 210 is coming from?


So reading over the background in my first post, does anyone have a good idea where my problems started. I was so focused on the battery in the beginning that I didn't give anything else a thought...I'm wondering if maybe there had been some water in there from the beginning causing the initial difficulty starting? Do you think towing under 10mph without pinching the water inlet caused the water ingestion? Once I get this fixed I don't want to repeat my errors through ignorance.

 

[kustomkarl]

Towing under 15 mph is fine...I'll reread you post and repost here.
This procedure should be maybe an hour tops!!! Go get a cold drink.
Ok I re-read the first post. I forget, cause I read it like 300 posts ago. YEKS that thing has 180 psi! What fuel are you running in that monster... That engine is designed to run with 150 psi. If you running that high compression it's gonna need higher octane fuel...What spark plugs are you running? Did you check them before you had this trouble...The water might not be your problem, just a contributing factor to the problem.

Karl

 

[timmyboy76]

Squid...stop shoot'n fogging oil/wd-40 in the cylinders. Keep crank'n til all is out, use the same plugs for now, and hold the choke out. Once it gets goin, keep the choke out, til it "grabs" ahold (motor firing), then "ease" the throttle some, with choke in.

 

[SquidDaddy]

The previous owner put on the new R&D Rec head to bump the compression up and he has been running 93 octane fuel in it just fine.

As much as I have cranked this motor over, fogged it, and WD40d it, there shouldn't be any water left in the crankcase. During my first hour of cranking after I thought I had gotten most of the water out, I put the plugs back in and got it to turn over and that pushed a ton of water out of the exhaust behind the ski. I kind of expected that since I hadn't been able to crank it since pulling it out of the lake.

Everytime I put the plugs back in and crank it, they just get coated with a wet mist. Oh, I'm still using the BR8ES plugs correctly gapped.

Ok, so even if I have sustained some damage to the crank or bearings, it COULD still fire and run...maybe only briefly but I would think it could as long as it wasn't too corroded.

I let it sit over night with more WD40 in the cylinders and crankcase...I guess that can't hurt anything any worse than it may already be. When I get home this afternoon, I will again try to crank it till its dry then mix up some more premix and give it another try.

If the engine is toast, what is the general concensus....rebuild or get another one from SBT?

 

[CAVPILOT]

Squid,
I am going through your exact scenario only the water in my ski sat for damn near 1 year!
It blew water AND rust out of the spark when I finally got it turning. I went through 2 batteries and almost 8 hours of cranking...and cranking...and cranking trying to get all the water out! It had FINALLY cleared up but I wanted to see the damage inside so I pulled my top end and saw rust everywhere! My compression was 135 & 50!! :ack:
One of my pistons' rings had seized to the piston! Rust all over the rods, jugs, just everywhere. Needless to say, I'm getting a new engine.
You should be OK...maybe some surface rust at most, so KEEP AT IT until it gets running!
Timmyboy had some great insight to this problem for me.

atriot:

 

[SquidDaddy]

Well a friend of mine help me put another 3 hours or so into trying to get it started. We made some progress as it appears that I have finally gotten all the water out. I did manage to get it running for about 5 seconds toward the end but by then the starter was getting hot and the battery needed charging.

This high compression is really making it a biotch to turn it over. I guessing it will still be a major PITA even after I get it running again. I'm going to contact the previous owner and see if he still has the stock head. The power is nice but reliability is more important to me these days.

I lubed up the cylinders with the fogging oil last night and turned it over a few times to spread some to the bottom of the case. This morning it was still turning just as smooth as last night so that is encouraging. I'm going to attack it again this afternoon with a cool starter and a fresh charge on the battery. I hope it will finally run!

 

[CAVPILOT]

Outstanding!! Good luck!
And its great to see you already sharing your experience with others (cross-posts)

 

[kustomkarl]

That is good news...That high compression head could be a problem down the road. Keep us posted on you out come.

Karl