GTX 97 Towing Tube

[prd]

Hello Guys,

I was wondering, do you guys run into the same issue when the seadoo has a hard time to get going when pulling the tube?

We were 2 on the seadoo maybe 380LBs total + 60 foot line + 1 person(150lbs) on tube and we had to give it almost full throtle for the ski to actually take some speed but once we're going everything seems fine.

Can towing cause any harm to the ski itself also? Because the next day, I felt like the ski didn't respond like it used to before towing.

Third question, is it just me or it seems like the ski has some sort of transmission almost. When it starts to accelerate the RPM goes high (5000RPMish).. but once he gets his speed it drops down to 4K.

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[Coastiejoe]

The transmission you speak of is the impeller slipping. This is also the issue in regards to pulling a tube.

Check the wear ring gap. If it is the width of a dime or more, replace it.

If it isn't, then you would need to look at the carbon seal.

Betting it is your wear ring though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[prd]

CastieJoe,

In order to verify the wear ring gap, do I need to remove all the front section of the impeller?

 

[LouDoo]

I agree with Kevin, it sounds like you are experiencing cavitation, I'm betting it's the wear ring. But you are also putting a pretty big load on the ski.

I'll go ahead and answer your question, you will need to remove the reverse gate and the steering nozzle to check the impeller to wear ring clearance. Just a few bolts.

Lou

 

[prd]

LouDoo, do you think that load is too much for the ski? I mean at the end of the day, its 3 adults but I thought this ski was able to even pull 2 people of the tube, but I might be wrong. (ps. I know its not legal).

 

[prd]

Also, I'm still hitting that top speed of 80KM/h but the issue is only when accelerating from 0 to 10-20km/h.

Does this still seems to be a wear ring issue?

 

[prd]

Check the wear ring gap. If it is the width of a dime or more, replace it.

Is this the gap between the ring and the impeller we're talking about? Sorry, I've never really worked with that section of the ski.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Is this the gap between the ring and the impeller we're talking about? Sorry, I've never really worked with that section of the ski.

Yes. It is that gap.

It sounds like you are at the edge of within specs to me as you still get decent response and good top end.

Even with a bad ring you can get to the normal top end speed. Why? Because as the ski increases speed the load (friction) is less. There fore it takes less to get the ski moving. The forward motion of the ski is easy to maintain compared to the initial movement of the ski. Especially when pulling a load.


Repairing and selling iPads, iPhones and Mini iPads.

 

[LouDoo]

LouDoo, do you think that load is too much for the ski? I mean at the end of the day, its 3 adults but I thought this ski was able to even pull 2 people of the tube, but I might be wrong. (ps. I know its not legal).

Not necessarily too much weight but it's getting there. I'm not sure how the USCG rates ski's Kevin could probably give a better answer, but when a boat is rated for say 8 people, they consider, and this is probably unrealistic, the weight of each person 150 lbs., so do the math. Plus you've a got the added resistance of pulling a tube.

Lou

 

[prd]

Yes. It is that gap.

It sounds like you are at the edge of within specs to me as you still get decent response and good top end.

Even with a bad ring you can get to the normal top end speed. Why? Because as the ski increases speed the load (friction) is less. There fore it takes less to get the ski moving. The forward motion of the ski is easy to maintain compared to the initial movement of the ski. Especially when pulling a load.


Repairing and selling iPads, iPhones and Mini iPads.

Thanks, Yes I'm still hitting that 80km/h at 7000RPM, but as stated its when accelerating that the ski needs to hit about 5K to get going then it feels like a transmission and you heard the motor dropping to 4K RPM once it gets moving. So from what I read, this is related to the wear ring. I'll open it up tonight and see if its actually the wear ring or not.

I must agree though, when pulling a tube it took about 5-10 seconds for the ski to get going, sometimes we needs to give it full throttle to get going. We ended finding a way by starting to ski on the right (reducing the tube's tention), then moving forward and pulling the tube.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

the 97 GTX is all of... 70 HP? 90? You aren't going to hurt it in anyway, however it's not 130HP nor 200...

you don't need to open anything to check the wear ring, get under the ski w/a flashlight and look from the front to back around the impeller. there should only be a 2-5 paper thick gap around it.

 

[Strizzo]

sounds normal to me, you don't have a positive connection to the water like you do with a prop, the jet pump accelerates water through the nozzle which pushes the ski forward. this works fine for a relatively light boat that planes on top of the water, but less well when dragging a load through the water. when you first start pulling a tube, the person's weight is on top of the tube and its sitting down in the water. until the tube planes out on top of the water its creating a lot of drag in the water, this is why it takes longer to get moving when pulling a tube.

Sqrl, the 97 gtx is 787 powered, so 110hp.

 

[prd]

Well the GTX is still 110 force, I mean my father-in-law has a boat with 60HP and its pulling the tube without an issue, so I wouldn't see why the Ski with 110HP wouldn't be able.

 

[prd]

sounds normal to me, you don't have a positive connection to the water like you do with a prop, the jet pump accelerates water through the nozzle which pushes the ski forward. this works fine for a relatively light boat that planes on top of the water, but less well when dragging a load through the water. when you first start pulling a tube, the person's weight is on top of the tube and its sitting down in the water. until the tube planes out on top of the water its creating a lot of drag in the water, this is why it takes longer to get moving when pulling a tube.

Sqrl, the 97 gtx is 787 powered, so 110hp.

We posted at the same time. I didn't know that Prop wasn't the same thing as the ski. That would probably explain.

 

[prd]

sounds normal to me, you don't have a positive connection to the water like you do with a prop, the jet pump accelerates water through the nozzle which pushes the ski forward. this works fine for a relatively light boat that planes on top of the water, but less well when dragging a load through the water. when you first start pulling a tube, the person's weight is on top of the tube and its sitting down in the water. until the tube planes out on top of the water its creating a lot of drag in the water, this is why it takes longer to get moving when pulling a tube.

Sqrl, the 97 gtx is 787 powered, so 110hp.

The thing is, yesterday I was on the water with a second person on the ski, and I felt like it wasn't accelerating like it used to in the past. But ever since I've bought the ski I've always had the transmission type of feeling once the ski started going.

Guys if it's not the wear ring, is the carbon seal the only thing else to verify?

Also, for other GTX 97 owners, does your ski go from 0 to 20 quite easily and fast or does it have the transmission feeling also?

 

[Strizzo]

The thing is, yesterday I was on the water with a second person on the ski, and I felt like it wasn't accelerating like it used to in the past. But ever since I've bought the ski I've always had the transmission type of feeling once the ski started going.

Guys if it's not the wear ring, is the carbon seal the only thing else to verify?

Also, for other GTX 97 owners, does your ski go from 0 to 20 quite easily and fast or does it have the transmission feeling also?

wear ring is most likely, and carbon seal close behind. less likely but also possible are the seal around the pump shoe and ride plate coming loose. i would inspect the wear ring first, not sure how long you've owned the ski but if it hasn't been changed in 2-3 years, its due.

 

[prd]

Actually the ski has 197hrs, and I've just bought it at 185hr. I'm not sure if it has ever been changed.

 

[soccerdad]

My 96 GTX does exactly the same thing if the tube is deep in the water. The tube has to be pretty hard and the people leaning back on it. I pull a pair of girls on it at a total of about 200 pounds, but it is just me on the ski. (legal here in NC). It fights to get traction some times, then pulls them up on plane. Once on plane, you back off some so I guess it seems like it is shifting. Just like the ski does when you get it up on plane. The raves opening also kind of acts like shifting as well. I think your ski is OK, but it may also need a wear ring.

For the group, it was noted above that the ride plate or inlet shoe may also need to be sealed to reduce cavitation. Since all of it is in the water, I don't see how this can cause cavitation. But I believe it, just don't understand. Anyway, what do you seal? I had the ride plate off the ski, but did not see any seal that I remember.

 

[MLars]

The thing is, yesterday I was on the water with a second person on the ski, and I felt like it wasn't accelerating like it used to in the past. But ever since I've bought the ski I've always had the transmission type of feeling once the ski started going.

Guys if it's not the wear ring, is the carbon seal the only thing else to verify?

Also, for other GTX 97 owners, does your ski go from 0 to 20 quite easily and fast or does it have the transmission feeling also?

I've never had a problem pulling a tube with my 97 gtx. I can get a 150lb person on plane with about 350 lbs on board the ski in about 2 to 3 seconds, and never need to go full throttle. It sounds like something's wrong with yours.

 

[Coastiejoe]

A bit off topic...

Lou,,, I still love that picture every time I see it.. LOL

USCG does not get to heavy into the rating PWC's as they fall below the requirement of being shorter than 13 foot. Once they hit 13 foot they fall into the "Boat" category and then the USCG has some serious input into things.

That said, the certification is based on input from engineers PRIOR to mass production.

The USCG enforces the laws and regs based on the engineering data for the most part.

For boats, the USCG uses a rough formula for when they are out cruising around. It is Length X Width / 15. So if the boat is 26 foot long and has a 8 foot beam, it would be 26X8/15. Which equals. 13.86.. So, if they see around 13 people in a boat that is as described, they will do a "courtesy boarding" and ask to see the Manufactures DATA plate. The plate will be permanently attached normally with rivets and contain the limits of the boat.

 

[kicker]

If it feels like a transmission.......you have cavatation. You ski should never rev up and then rev down once it starts to "hook up".

As Strizzo said its probably Wear ring or carbon seal

Hear is a how to on the carbon seal
http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?71248-How-To-carbon-seal-service-and-replacement

The wear ring should not have a gap more then 1mm between the impeller and wear ring.

 

[prd]

Thanks guys for this information. I'll take pictures and see

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

a propeller, at a given HP, will put more GO to the water than a jet pump.

 

[prd]

Hey guys,

I took pictures last night.



I know it's a bit hard to see but I think everything seems normal. As for the carbon seal, I'm not sure what to look for.

 

[kicker]

The rubber boot on the PTO has no grease in it. Pump some grease in there until the boot expands slightly, that will tighten up the carbon seal a bit. From what I can see the carbon seal looks to be lined up and I dont see any chips or cracks. Try pulling the rubber boot back so the carbon seal separates from the SS ring and look for any deformities in the SS ring or the carbon seal.

The gap on the wear ring looks to be ok but its hard to tell a measurement from a picture.

BTW that bolt laying in the bottom of the hull looks to be from the bottom tuned pipe, you might want to check to be sure that both bolts are still holding that piece of pipe in there.