Fullbore- Never again

[TandE]

Just a rant as I am at my wits end with this whole ordeal.

Have a 96 gtx. Needed to get a top end done for it and decided that I would send it to Dan at fullbore. I knew going into it that it would take a while and started tearing it apart in July of 2020. Paid for the service on July 28th and shipped the cylinders to him and were delivered the beginning of August (about the 7th or 8th or so). I figured that I would see them again around November or so and would reassemble it around Christmas time during the holidays.

November 24th I had to move the seadoo in the shop to get more room to work on the wifes car and thought I would send a message to him via Facebook and see what the timeframe is looking like. Got an automated response saying to email as that was the best option. While writing the email he responded or someone did saying that they were getting around to those orders soon. No big deal its winter time not like I can ride anyways.

February 2021 I went to message him again but noticed that his father I believed passed away. That sucks and didn't want to bother him during that time. But of course this was after the buyer protection from PayPal ran out.

March 17th I sent an email with a screenshot of the invoice from PayPal asking about the status. No response.

April 1st I sent another asking for info. No response.

There were a couple phone calls in that time frame too but it wasn't until April 30th I emailed and called and was able to talk to his wife who said she was just wondering about my order and why it was still there. Later tells me it would ship out the following week. Nothing

June 22nd I emailed again. Nothing

July 1st another email. Nothing. Another phone call no answer and left voicemail. Nothing

And now I'm on an at least once a day email till I get a response with phone calls mixed in.

This sucks big time. Coming up on our week long lake stay and for sure thought that I would have this ready to go. I went with him because of how many people recommended him but now I'm wishing I would have just went with someone else. Even have seen others say they sent cylinders in this year and had them back less than 2 months.

So since it seems that I am out cylinders and $350 where is a good place to get another set? Where is the recommended place to send them in for work now?

 

[KyleW2]

Post this in the Seadoo 2 stroke page on Facebook and someone will tag him, maybe you will get a response there.

I do agree though, that is absolutely ridiculous. I hear he does good work, but no work should take that long to complete, especially for basic cylinder work.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

The guy completely over works himself and ends up with stuff like this. I've told him over and over he needs to charge alot more to keep his numbers down so he can keep people happy. He over extends himself then with the supply shortage has customers that fall thru the cracks.

It sounds like an excuse but it's not. There is no excuse for things like this, and your story is far from the only one.

What I can tell you is he does great work and is not intentionally trying to screw you.

You are definitely in the right though.

Not alot of great options, ses is a total joke, as is sbt.

I work with small shops locally when I need something, source my own pistons.

Hopefully you see your parts soon. My guess is he's playing a game of... Well full motors take priority for parts.. Shit I'm out of pistons.

 

[TandE]

The guy completely over works himself and ends up with stuff like this. I've told him over and over he needs to charge alot more to keep his numbers down so he can keep people happy. He over extends himself then with the supply shortage has customers that fall thru the cracks.

It sounds like an excuse but it's not. There is no excuse for things like this, and your story is far from the only one.

What I can tell you is he does great work and is not intentionally trying to screw you.

You are definitely in the right though.

Not alot of great options, ses is a total joke, as is sbt.

I work with small shops locally when I need something, source my own pistons.

Hopefully you see your parts soon. My guess is he's playing a game of... Well full motors take priority for parts.. Shit I'm out of pistons.

Its been awhile for me to actually use any type of machine work around me so I do not really know anyone that does anymore. Is there any specific things that would need to be done to have cylinders done locally that they would need to know?

 

[KyleW2]

I saw your post on the Facebook group but looks like it got deleted. I hope that means he got back to you?

Sure seemed like a lot of people having the same issues as you are. Sounds like he needs a customer service agent to answer questions and some serious help on the shop side if he’s truly that busy.

 

[TandE]

I saw your post on the Facebook group but looks like it got deleted. I hope that means he got back to you?

Sure seemed like a lot of people having the same issues as you are. Sounds like he needs a customer service agent to answer questions and some serious help on the shop side if he’s truly that busy.

I have not heard from him. Its funny they deleted it with the report saying Contact vendors directly this is not your personal bi*** page Using the group rule for Seadoo 2 stroke only posts. Like I have tried contacting him and that was a last resort and it was about a service they all recommend people use for 2 strokes but since the admins and mods are all buddies with him I guess it was expected. I actually was surprised it lasted for 12 hours.

I feel sorry for a bunch of the other people. Had quite a few contact me on messenger saying the same thing. Some with even close to a grand spent upfront and no communication at all.

Live and learn I guess

 

[Stealth800]

I have not heard from him. Its funny they deleted it with the report saying Contact vendors directly this is not your personal bi*** page Using the group rule for Seadoo 2 stroke only posts. Like I have tried contacting him and that was a last resort and it was about a service they all recommend people use for 2 strokes but since the admins and mods are all buddies with him I guess it was expected. I actually was surprised it lasted for 12 hours.

I feel sorry for a bunch of the other people. Had quite a few contact me on messenger saying the same thing. Some with even close to a grand spent upfront and no communication at all.

Live and learn I guess

I feel your pain as I’m going through the same ordeal. Still waiting on a 951 cylinder I sent them in December. I can’t get anyone to reply to me. I will say the other 951 wossner kit I got from them recently looks great but it took 6 months and I built the motor. I was lucky enough to find a brand new WSM carb crank through a private sale in May. Sounds like they dig themselves in a hole. Sad as they seem like nice people when I have spoke to them a few times way back.

 

[mikidymac]

Group K does amazing machine work, is fast and always answers his phone.

 

[GGuillot]

To add insult, Dan from Fullbore is a moderator on the FB page. I’ve brought it up before to the admins, business owners that support the community shouldn’t be moderators, it’s a conflict, this includes Nick from OSD, who has in the past deleted posts to protect his business.

I used Group K over the winter, took about 2 months, but you can reach Harry, he keeps you informed where you are in the queue.

 

[GGuillot]

I have not heard from him. Its funny they deleted it with the report saying Contact vendors directly this is not your personal bi*** page Using the group rule for Seadoo 2 stroke only posts. Like I have tried contacting him and that was a last resort and it was about a service they all recommend people use for 2 strokes but since the admins and mods are all buddies with him I guess it was expected. I actually was surprised it lasted for 12 hours.

I feel sorry for a bunch of the other people. Had quite a few contact me on messenger saying the same thing. Some with even close to a grand spent upfront and no communication at all.

Live and learn I guess

I sent one of the admins a personal message the other day about how it puts the FB page in a bad spot. Dan is running a business that is bordering on fraudulent, which you'd think the page doesn't endorse people that have done bad business practices, much less stay on as a moderator. Response I got was "Dan is a friend" well....that explains everything..

Here's the problem, it's obvious his business at Fullbore is in bad shape, yet unbelievably people defend him that he "does good work" and "he's a good person" "quality takes time". Which is all BS when a person is on the other end has your money and your parts. I've done business with him a couple times, didn't have an issue, but that's no longer the case. No way he can be defended or recommended, yet when someone asks, the first thing you'll see is "Fullbore is the best". The solution is to turn work away, at least finish with the people who already sent you money, start with the ones that have been waiting the longest.

I'd be furious if I gave $1000 for an engine build or $350 for cylinders and you have my money and my shit and have been sitting on it for 6 months or in some cases more than a year. File a fraud case with the local sheriff, maybe that'll get his attention.

 

[1of500]

Supply chain issues are a fact of life currently. I'm in hvac/r industry my sheet metal fabricators are having trouble getting metal and labor. I'm not defending Dan but there are shortages across the board for many products. Imo he should return your cylinders and money. I would be looking for my own piston and send to group k or someone reputable that knows how to bore a 2 stroke.

 

[etemplet]

Its been awhile for me to actually use any type of machine work around me so I do not really know anyone that does anymore. Is there any specific things that would need to be done to have cylinders done locally that they would need to know?

Only the recommended piston to bore clearance from the new piston's manufacturer. Locally for my area the price is $50 a cylinder and usually back in less than 3 days. Cylinder boring is pretty common.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Dan does superior work and I'd still send him a motor if I wanted a well done motor... But I'd expect to wait a long time.

I just waited 8mo for a gun to be built, was told 4-6 weeks.

I'm not defending any of it though, many have waited too long and ive railed on him in the past about his communication.

Facebook has gotten completely out of hand in general and that's coming from a guy that runs one of the biggest pages on fb. It's a effen joke.

 

[KyleW2]

Supply chain issues are a fact of life currently. I'm in hvac/r industry my sheet metal fabricators are having trouble getting metal and labor. I'm not defending Dan but there are shortages across the board for many products. Imo he should return your cylinders and money. I would be looking for my own piston and send to group k or someone reputable that knows how to bore a 2 stroke.

While I agree there are supply chain issues that is absolutely not the issue here. If it was, people wouldn’t be getting their parts back in a few months while others wait way longer. It seems to me that he doesn’t operate in order of parts received like it should be in a business like this.

The bigger issue however is the poor communication. At what point do you draw the line and consider it theft or fraud when you send someone money for a service, don’t receive your goods, and then the person won’t contact you back when you call for an update? I’m sorry, but that’s fishy.

Not saying Dan isn’t a good guy that’s doing his best, but come on - it’s not that hard to hire someone to at least answer phone calls and emails. Not like this is a recent thing, it’s been this way for a while now.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

While I agree there are supply chain issues that is absolutely not the issue here. If it was, people wouldn’t be getting their parts back in a few months while others wait way longer. It seems to me that he doesn’t operate in order of parts received like it should be in a business like this.

The bigger issue however is the poor communication. At what point do you draw the line and consider it theft or fraud when you send someone money for a service, don’t receive your goods, and then the person won’t contact you back when you call for an update? I’m sorry, but that’s fishy.

Not saying Dan isn’t a good guy that’s doing his best, but come on - it’s not that hard to hire someone to at least answer phone calls and emails. Not like this is a recent thing, it’s been this way for a while now.

It's easy to say, not easy to do. In mn the small biz laws are a joke. I'd love to hire people but it would cost me way too much for a industry that's so seasonal.

The supply chain thing is real, and when you look at all the components in a motor its tough. Yeah you can source out other gaskets but then you don't know the quality. Cranks.... There's really only one real source and they have been backordered for ages. Pistons are all out of stock everywhere and when they do come it you just hope they got the right cc and diameter you needed.

His communication is atrocious. No doubt. And this is the shiet he gets to read as he's in the shop at 3am trying to get orders done bc of it.

Im so glad I have nothing to do with motors.

 

[mikidymac]

FullBore has had this issue for years so you can't blame the supply chain or COVID on this one, sorry, poor business practices are poor business practices no matter the quality of the work.

Funny how Group K has the same suppliers but is able to get his work out the door in a reasonable time, as promised and answers the phone.

 

[mikidymac]

Only the recommended piston to bore clearance from the new piston's manufacturer. Locally for my area the price is $50 a cylinder and usually back in less than 3 days. Cylinder boring is pretty common.

The big issue is knowing 2-strokes enough to correctly chamfer the ports. A lot of the machine shops that don't do 2-strokes regularly screw up that part and trash a lot of cylinders when the rings catch.
As you said, the other concern is setup clearance for the specific pistons you are using, you can't just go by the book if they are forged pistons.

 

[etemplet]

FullBore has had this issue for years so you can't blame the supply chain or COVID on this one, sorry, poor business practices are poor business practices no matter the quality of the work.

Funny how Group K has the same suppliers but is able to get his work out the door in a reasonable time, as promised and answers the phone.

Amen !

 

[etemplet]

The big issue is knowing 2-strokes enough to correctly chamfer the ports. A lot of the machine shops that don't do 2-strokes regularly screw up that part and trash a lot of cylinders when the rings catch.
As you said, the other concern is setup clearance for the specific pistons you are using, you can't just go by the book if they are forged pistons.

I don't trust anyone to chamfer and prep my cylinders for install. I re-chamfer all my ports no matter who bores the cylinders and flush the hell out of them. I just need the hole the right size and in the correct location. LOL $5 for a pack of very small files from Harbor Freight and you're golden. I'd much rather do top ends than all that other crap which is why I send the complete engines out unless I'm in a real rush.

 

[tomski]

I would just like to chime in and say that that communication should be numero uno... It took me months and countless emails to get some replica decals for my old skis and could never understand why this gentleman could not simply communicate...good luck moving forward!

 

[Lorha1159]

u could be the best or the worst.....communication is everything for me.

so glad the local dirtbike guy does my cylinders for me and i do all the rest. just suck i dont know how much longer he wants to do it and my garage isnt big enough to buy out his stuff lol

 

[Boyd12]

Just a rant as I am at my wits end with this whole ordeal.

Have a 96 gtx. Needed to get a top end done for it and decided that I would send it to Dan at fullbore. I knew going into it that it would take a while and started tearing it apart in July of 2020. Paid for the service on July 28th and shipped the cylinders to him and were delivered the beginning of August (about the 7th or 8th or so). I figured that I would see them again around November or so and would reassemble it around Christmas time during the holidays.

November 24th I had to move the seadoo in the shop to get more room to work on the wifes car and thought I would send a message to him via Facebook and see what the timeframe is looking like. Got an automated response saying to email as that was the best option. While writing the email he responded or someone did saying that they were getting around to those orders soon. No big deal its winter time not like I can ride anyways.

February 2021 I went to message him again but noticed that his father I believed passed away. That sucks and didn't want to bother him during that time. But of course this was after the buyer protection from PayPal ran out.

March 17th I sent an email with a screenshot of the invoice from PayPal asking about the status. No response.

April 1st I sent another asking for info. No response.

There were a couple phone calls in that time frame too but it wasn't until April 30th I emailed and called and was able to talk to his wife who said she was just wondering about my order and why it was still there. Later tells me it would ship out the following week. Nothing

June 22nd I emailed again. Nothing

July 1st another email. Nothing. Another phone call no answer and left voicemail. Nothing

And now I'm on an at least once a day email till I get a response with phone calls mixed in.

This sucks big time. Coming up on our week long lake stay and for sure thought that I would have this ready to go. I went with him because of how many people recommended him but now I'm wishing I would have just went with someone else. Even have seen others say they sent cylinders in this year and had them back less than 2 months.

So since it seems that I am out cylinders and $350 where is a good place to get another set? Where is the recommended place to send them in for work now?
View attachment 55127

Wow, that sucks! I have spoken to Dan before and he was very nice and helped me a lot, but that doesnt make up for what has been done to you.
I spoke to them in August last year and was told 25 business days for boring.
Even though it has been a long time, I would suggest contacting Wells Fargo. Maybe they could help. Maybe a letter from an attorney requesting a refund and your parts?
PS I have had good service from Group K
I hope you get your money and parts back!

 

[Notoriousscottyb]

Nobody's work is worth what this guy puts his customers through. I've been hearing the same thing about him for years. If you take the risk and send your machine work to him that's all on you. None of this is anything new. You should go buy a an SBT remain for $ 800 while you wait.

 

[TandE]

Wow, that sucks! I have spoken to Dan before and he was very nice and helped me a lot, but that doesnt make up for what has been done to you.
I spoke to them in August last year and was told 25 business days for boring.
Even though it has been a long time, I would suggest contacting Wells Fargo. Maybe they could help. Maybe a letter from an attorney requesting a refund and your parts?
PS I have had good service from Group K
I hope you get your money and parts back!

That is the weird thing. I have seen a few people respond on Facebook saying that they called or emailed and talked with Dan or his Wife and they were told about 30 days. Its funny how people who do not have parts with them get answers or responses. He did reply to me on the 5th through the business page saying he was sick for a while and would see what is up but I have not heard anything back.

I've messaged and tried calling multiple times since then saying just to send them back with no response. Ill call the bank and see what they have to say, I don't like doing that but this communication sucks.

 

[Lothsahn]

The guy completely over works himself and ends up with stuff like this. I've told him over and over he needs to charge alot more to keep his numbers down so he can keep people happy. He over extends himself then with the supply shortage has customers that fall thru the cracks.

It sounds like an excuse but it's not. There is no excuse for things like this, and your story is far from the only one.

What I can tell you is he does great work and is not intentionally trying to screw you.

You are definitely in the right though.

Not alot of great options, ses is a total joke, as is sbt.

I work with small shops locally when I need something, source my own pistons.

Hopefully you see your parts soon. My guess is he's playing a game of... Well full motors take priority for parts.. Shit I'm out of pistons.

Why is sbt a total joke? my understanding is they rebuild engines, stand behind their warranty, are reliable, on time. I also heard if you're trying to soup them up, they don't stand up. Is that the concern? Do they use lower quality parts or something?