I have a 1998 GSX Limited with carbone seal. I took it out today and found I had taken on water. I was looking around for the reason. I pushed back the bellows around the driveshaft and the water just flooded in. I looked in the manual and it has little on replacing this seal. Can anyone tell me how hard it is to replace it. Can I push back the driveshaft and un-couple it or do I need to pull the motor or what? Any help I would be thankful for.
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Driveshaft leaking 98 GSX Limited
- Thread starter bthacker
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Let me start by asking... How much water is in the ski? It's normal for a small amount of water to be in the hull.
The carbon seal works by the pressure of the boot, holding it tight onto the stainless ring. So... If you push it back... water comes in. (That's normal) If you have a bad carbon seal... your ski won't go anywhere since the pump will suck air past it.
So... do you have bad cavitation, or is the ski just taking on some water?
If you don't have bad cavitation... your leak is not from your seal.
The carbon seal works by the pressure of the boot, holding it tight onto the stainless ring. So... If you push it back... water comes in. (That's normal) If you have a bad carbon seal... your ski won't go anywhere since the pump will suck air past it.
So... do you have bad cavitation, or is the ski just taking on some water?
If you don't have bad cavitation... your leak is not from your seal.
I do not have cavitation. It just setting in the water I do not see any water comming in around it. I had water deep enough that it came over the motormount in about 1.5 hours of riding and setting. I had it idling against the dock and checked for water leaking from the exaust system and could not find anything. I tilted the ski to each side keeping the rail under water while a friend looked for water leaking around it. I kept it in the water for about 1/2 hour just setting and I could not see any water comming in. I chance to run into the man's son that gave it to me and he told me that he was the one that sank it. He told me he was on the lake turning it in circles when it started taking on water. He headed for shore and a boat helped him beach it. I had the exaust system appart while rebuilding the motor, it has new gaskets. I am scratching my head on this one. I thought I had found it when I pulled back the boot and thought I had found it. I am somewhat glad this is not it but also sad because it is not if that makes any sense. I don't know where to go to from here, I guess back to the water. I think I have a small bulidge pump somewhere I may install in the hull until I find the leak. Would their be a way to preasure the exaust system to cheek for a leak? I wonder if I may have a small crack that is opening up when it gets hot because I was running it hard when I took on the water? The system looks good but I cannot see much as it is tight in their and I did not inspect the system when I had it out because I did not suspect this. Any advice would be most apprsheated.
bigJake
Well-Known Member
- look for a hole in the plastic bellows that holds the carbon seal.
- check the condition of the gaskets on your drains.
- if the hoses coming from the bailer pickups are not ziptied to the top of the hull they can leak water into the hull
- there are 2 hoses inside your hull that connect to points 23 and 59 on the attached diagram. make sure they are connected.
http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/seadooforums/Seadoo_oem/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=13&A=53&B=18
- check the condition of the gaskets on your drains.
- if the hoses coming from the bailer pickups are not ziptied to the top of the hull they can leak water into the hull
- there are 2 hoses inside your hull that connect to points 23 and 59 on the attached diagram. make sure they are connected.
http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/seadooforums/Seadoo_oem/Seadoo_PWC.asp?Type=13&A=53&B=18
Well I think I may have found part of my problem. I was going to take some pictures to post here of the seal and see what you all thought. I got thinking about things while out in the garage and thought "Why did not the bailing system bail out at least part of the water or is the leak bigger than the bailing system can handle" I thought that maybe a insect could have built a nest in the tubes, so I got a piece of hose that would fit over the tubes comming out from the pump and blew threw it. I could hear air comming from where the tubes go threw the hull. Something up next to the hull on the outside is leaking very badly. How is that sealed? Are the fittings screwed into the housing, how would I seal this? I hope I do not have to pull the pump from the hull I have never done this and think it could be a lot of work. I wonder if maybe it may have froze and busted the housing. In the diagram it looks like the tubes are made right into the mounting plate of the pump but looking at the thing it looks like their maybe a connection with a "O" ring in their between the pump mounting plate and the tubes.
I do not have an account to post a picture of this area. Any suggestions? I need to change the pump oil any way and going to pull this apart and see if I can get this area apart and if it has "O" rings in it.
I do not have an account to post a picture of this area. Any suggestions? I need to change the pump oil any way and going to pull this apart and see if I can get this area apart and if it has "O" rings in it.
djredman99
New Member
The siphon tubes in the pump are separate pieces. The O-rings fit into recessed holes the diameter of the tubes. The tubes are then pushed up into the holes about 1.5". It should be a very snug fit.
This is on the other end where the siphon tubes go from the venturi to the pump mounting bracket where it attaches to the back of the ski, on top of the impeller housing. They are just flat fit on the venturi side and slide up into a rubber grumet on the bulkhead side. It uses the preasure from the fit between the venturi and bulkhead with "O" rings between to seal the tubes. If the "O" rings get dried out, crack. or dryrot you can loose the seal. Something to check. In the drawing diagram it looks like this is made into the impeller housing but it is not. It clipps into it and looks like a good place for failure.
In my opinion the bailing system is marginal at best, and of course it doesn't work at all unless the ski if moving.
I installed a bilge pump in my 96GTI, it was a Rule 500, works great, I do leave my ski's in the water for extended periods, up to 2 weeks. I keep a solar battery maintainer connected so the pump doesn't run the battery down. Pretty cheap insurance.
My 96XP already had a bilge pump, factory installed, I think.
Lou
I installed a bilge pump in my 96GTI, it was a Rule 500, works great, I do leave my ski's in the water for extended periods, up to 2 weeks. I keep a solar battery maintainer connected so the pump doesn't run the battery down. Pretty cheap insurance.
My 96XP already had a bilge pump, factory installed, I think.
Lou
I have a 350GPH pump from a previous boat project I think it would be worth my time to install it. Atleast until I find my leak. I had it setting at the dock for half hour and I could not tell that it was leaking at all, I even stood on the sides making the seam go under water for 5 mins while having a buddy look for leakage. I pulled it up next to the dock and started it letting it run while looking in the hull for leaks. Could not find anything. This thing is going to drive me crazy.
Leave the seat on the dock and go take it for a rip...some leaks dont show till your moving. I had a XP leaking thru the exhaust tube only at 35mph or more.
The bailer system is typically sufficent if they are clean. There are little holes in the elbows so they dont "siphon"...if they get blocked they can send water in instead of out.
I beat the piss out of my machines so electric pump is a requirement. PWC doctor also makes a sick one way valve that lets water out of the hull while you are driving. I have the old style duckbills myself. When you have aftermarket flame arrestors you cannot have water in the hull...in rough water it will splash into the carbs.
The bailer system is typically sufficent if they are clean. There are little holes in the elbows so they dont "siphon"...if they get blocked they can send water in instead of out.
I beat the piss out of my machines so electric pump is a requirement. PWC doctor also makes a sick one way valve that lets water out of the hull while you are driving. I have the old style duckbills myself. When you have aftermarket flame arrestors you cannot have water in the hull...in rough water it will splash into the carbs.
I cleaned the hull really good when I had the motor out and now that I am having this problem I have cleaned out the bailers really good, they did not have much in them but are very clean now. I have thought about a duckbil. I have just got to get this problem resolved and I should not need anymore than the stock system but an electric would be nice if something went wrong. This unit is totaly stock, no aftermarket intakes but the carbs set low, under the exaust.
Yup. As I said run it around with the seat off...if theres a leak you should see it.
96spxpos
Well-Known Member
you NEED to drive it with the seat off
I was in the same boat you're in, about a month ago... djred and seadoo Lou kept tellin me to keep on it (so did DOC, a 'lil bit)...i literally checked EVERYTHING with the ski off, and i could never find it...even with the ski idling in water..(my problem is, i dont have a trailer, i dock it on a boat ramp)...so finally, being a noob, i had the balls to drive it with the seat off, almost toppled at first, but caught my balance...sure enough, it started pissing outta one of the small hoses that connect to the elbow plugs in the exhaust..it was the TINIEST tear ever and caused a waterfall when running...after i fixed that, i ran it with the seat off again, just to find that one of the "weld buttons" on the exhaust was pissing too, but only when i hit 10-15mph...
So, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, and NEVER doubt the obvious! i spent DAYS trying to find this problem, so do as minnetonka suggests, ride with the seat off, or at least with the seat on, then CAREFULLY unlip it from the back, and slide it backward as far as you can...good luck
I was in the same boat you're in, about a month ago... djred and seadoo Lou kept tellin me to keep on it (so did DOC, a 'lil bit)...i literally checked EVERYTHING with the ski off, and i could never find it...even with the ski idling in water..(my problem is, i dont have a trailer, i dock it on a boat ramp)...so finally, being a noob, i had the balls to drive it with the seat off, almost toppled at first, but caught my balance...sure enough, it started pissing outta one of the small hoses that connect to the elbow plugs in the exhaust..it was the TINIEST tear ever and caused a waterfall when running...after i fixed that, i ran it with the seat off again, just to find that one of the "weld buttons" on the exhaust was pissing too, but only when i hit 10-15mph...
So, DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, and NEVER doubt the obvious! i spent DAYS trying to find this problem, so do as minnetonka suggests, ride with the seat off, or at least with the seat on, then CAREFULLY unlip it from the back, and slide it backward as far as you can...good luck
bthacker - you don't need a photo account anywhere to post pics here. Use your digital and you can upload right from your camera card or load it onto your computer then go from there.
Click on "advance" then follow the "not the best" directions to upload. the pics will show up in the post as a small pic but we can enlarge it a bit by clicking on it.
Click on "advance" then follow the "not the best" directions to upload. the pics will show up in the post as a small pic but we can enlarge it a bit by clicking on it.
Thank You Seadoobudy, I am tring to post some pics.
In the first pic you can see how the tubes fit into the bulkhead/pump mounting bracket. I have found the problem the seals/"O" rings/ Grummets were in backward. Who ever serviced the pump last put these things backwards. I did the same thing. It looks like the small end fits back into the bulkhead, but they don't. They fit with the small end pointed outward toward the pump nozzle. I got looking at it and their was too much space in their. So after putting it together several times and it leaking very badly I got looking at it and thought what would happen it I turned it backward. That was it. Not leaking at all now.
In the first pic you can see how the tubes fit into the bulkhead/pump mounting bracket. I have found the problem the seals/"O" rings/ Grummets were in backward. Who ever serviced the pump last put these things backwards. I did the same thing. It looks like the small end fits back into the bulkhead, but they don't. They fit with the small end pointed outward toward the pump nozzle. I got looking at it and their was too much space in their. So after putting it together several times and it leaking very badly I got looking at it and thought what would happen it I turned it backward. That was it. Not leaking at all now.
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flowmasterman
Active Member
correct me if I am wrong someone, but isn't that Tridon screw clamp a big NO NO on the PTO since it will cause it to be out of balance, that is the reason for the Oeitiker clamps
That is all I had at the time, I will change it out. I don't have the right clamp, have smaller ones that fit fuel lines but not one big enough to fit that. I do have some metal wire ties that maybe a better choice. If not I have some T&B tywraps that have the metal catch in them instead of the plastic keeper like the cheeper ones. I just question if I can get the metal wire tie tight enough to hold but would think it would be the best. By the way it is stanless so it won't rust.
This is why I post on this board. I am a novice and knoldege like this is in-valueable. Something as small as a clamp can cause lots of trouble.
This is why I post on this board. I am a novice and knoldege like this is in-valueable. Something as small as a clamp can cause lots of trouble.
The big problem with the hose clamps is they chew into the un-reinforced rubber and it rots quicker. You see alot of VTS boots held on by them b/c thats how they came from the dealer...well they updated them to the plastic clamps b/c the boot lasts much longer.
I use zipties on the drive boot...if any squirts out you put too much in.
Nice Honda trail by the way! cant say I've ever seen a orange one!! Hard to see in the picture but I swear its a 70??
I use zipties on the drive boot...if any squirts out you put too much in.
Nice Honda trail by the way! cant say I've ever seen a orange one!! Hard to see in the picture but I swear its a 70??
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Ok...I was wondering...yellow ones are pretty rare too...I've got a really nice read one myself.
96spxpos
Well-Known Member
bthacker;
I fixed my main leak from when the motor is running, but never DID find the source of the main leak...partly cuz the ski is kept on a boat ramp..my neighbor is giving me unlimited access to two davits this week; so i will finally be able to pull my ski out of the water and up into the air to see the actual problem...
some wanna be mechanic pretty much redid this entire ski, from hull to motor, leaving me with tons of problems along the way, such as putting a -T- into the main gas line, for no reason, so if i never noticed it, the ski wouldve never started...
so i HAVE A GREAT FEELING when he put the pump in, he did exactly this... so i cant really get a good idea from ur pics...
Where EXACTLY should i check to see if my O-rings are in backward? its a 96 spx...
Am I checking where the pump bolts on to the ski?
thanks man
I fixed my main leak from when the motor is running, but never DID find the source of the main leak...partly cuz the ski is kept on a boat ramp..my neighbor is giving me unlimited access to two davits this week; so i will finally be able to pull my ski out of the water and up into the air to see the actual problem...
some wanna be mechanic pretty much redid this entire ski, from hull to motor, leaving me with tons of problems along the way, such as putting a -T- into the main gas line, for no reason, so if i never noticed it, the ski wouldve never started...
so i HAVE A GREAT FEELING when he put the pump in, he did exactly this... so i cant really get a good idea from ur pics...
Where EXACTLY should i check to see if my O-rings are in backward? its a 96 spx...
Am I checking where the pump bolts on to the ski?
thanks man
96spxpos, The "O" ring is right against the bulk head where the pump mounts to the hull. If you look at the pictures you will see that after you pull the nozzle off and these tubes will pull toward you and come out. At the end where these connect to the bulkhead is where these "O" rings set. You will put the big end in the hole and let the small end point to where these tubes will push against them. I am not sure if this is what your unit has. I also have a 96 XP setting beside mine and it has these hoses built right onto the top of the pump housing. That type of pump has just regular "O" rings at both ends. This type of setup must be very air tight to work. I don't have much experance with this but do know regular pumps and any leak will cause this system to not work. What I done was put a piece of hose over the pickup tube at the pump nozzle then lit a cig and blew smoke threw the system and looked for leaks. You could also use water to do this. But blowing smoke threw the system showed me the leak really fast.
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