battery storage in this frigid weather

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bigJake

bigJake

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Hey guys,
How ya'll doin. I've been MIA a few months. Revenuers were on my trail so I had to lay low for a while. I think Lou set em on my trail cause I sent him the same fruit cake for Xmas that he sent me the previous year.

I was wondering about my batteries sitting in my garage where temps have often been below freezing at night. Is it ok to leave then out there or do I need to bring them inside? Also, I didn't know if it is good or bad for the battery to run the trickle charger when they are this cold? If I bring them into the basement, I was concerned about charging them inside the house because of fumes they might vent when charging?
 
I keep my batteries on maintainers throughout the winter months. They run 24/7. Learn from previous experience that if you leaver a wet cell battery in a car or boat over the winter month without it being on a trickle charger or maintainer that you will need to buy a new battery in the Spring. For a trickle charger you can put it on a timer so that it isn't on 24/7.
 
My battery's still installed in the boat with battery switch off, outdoors under a roof with the factory Seadoo cover over it. The battery tender 800 is attached through the cigarette lighter power outlet on the helm and I plug the tender into 120V AC occasionally every couple months to see how it's holding up.

So far, the battery tender goes right to green, same as last winter. I've had this setup over 10 years and my batteries typically last 5~7 years or more, this is a group 24 automotive starting battery.

My oldest currently working batteries were purchased in 1995, both of them still cranking but probably not for long.

If the specific gravity of the electrolyte drops too low a battery can freeze and burst, I've never seen this happen with my own eyes (I don't live at the north pole, either).

As long as a battery electrolyte isn't frozen, you can charge it. Actually, cold weather slows down the chemical reaction so storing a battery cold is better. A wet environment (such as condensation from sweating) can cause a small parasitic current to flow between the terminals across the top of a dirty battery slowly discharging it.

I feel a good battery should be able to hold a voltage of at least 12.5 volts for a few months, otherwise there's probably an issue of some sort.
 
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Last week when the temps got cold here in NC I took the battery from the garage and placed in the kitchen pantry floor towards the back hoping my wife would not see. Well made it two days before she asked what thing in pantry.
As with others, I place on the tender and monitor.
I am sure the temps have been much colder in the old home town. I just think it's best to keep from extreme temps....I maybe wrong.
 
Jake, didn't Pa teach you nuthin, Pa always keeps his batteries over by the still, where it's nice n' warm.

Lou
 
I'm going on a 3rd season with a 45$ ZIPP sealed battery off eBay. It stays in the ski disconnect hooked up to a 1.5 amp trickle charger in my garage. Not bad for a cheap eBay battery



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!
 
as long as they are fully charged on the shelf they cant freeze trickle charge them once every 2-3 months and they will be fine
once they have no charge they can freeze and then they are f#$t. I have 12 batteries at the moment and 10 of them are over 5 years old my jeep battery was manufactured in 2004 so cold don't hurt nothing till you let them go dead and leave them for an extended period
 
Mine are inside in the basement, probably 60 degrees down there. I don't use trickle chargers... I simply charge each battery once a month at 2amp.


Anyone have any gripe against this? Has worked better for me than the tenders.
 
Do your self a favor, buy a trickle charger off amazon for $20 and trickle charge the battery at the very least. as far as being indoors or outdoors, I thinks it preferable to bring the battery inside...the battery isn't that heavy...if you cant bring it inside, then leave in the ski and run an extension cord to run the trickle charger!
 
During the winter I bring the battery inside and hook it up to the trickle charger every month or so. That keeps it nice and fresh come spring time.
 
Battery tenders/maintainers are generally a bad idea and total waste of money. They NEVER improve battery life, and most cases reduce battery life. They are basically snake oil.

The optimum way to care for your batteries in off-season is to disconnect them at the very least, fully charge them, store in a cool dry place without temperature extremes (like a basement), and top off the charge by using a standard charger for a few hours once a month.

The only reason for using battery tenders (which is not a good reason) is that you are lazy and don't care about shortening the battery life.

Before you jump in a try to debate me, first know that I once worked for the largest maker of battery chargers for lift truck applications (where the batteries are obscenely expensive, and the chargers used to get maximum life are horribly expensive) There are no tenders/maintainers out there that are properly matched to both the environmental conditions and the battery chemistry, that are needed to ensure you apply the correct charging profile to extend the battery life.
 
I agree, which is why I don't leave my battery tender plugged in constantly. The Battery tender does seem to bring the batteries back up though, I don't need a large charger for small batteries. Basically I do use a larger charger to bring large batteries back up and that works well too, my oldest batteries are from 1995(yes, I expect they won't crank next time I try).

What's a standard charger, one that's not regulated or automatic? I've seen these manual chargers burn boats to the ground when they were forgotten about and left unattended.

Basically though, the Battery Tender we're talking about isn't really a float charger, it doesn't do anything until the battery voltage drops to ~ 12.5v then takes it to 14.2 and shuts back off. So if your battery is in good condition I think it never actually does anything, or much of anything at all.

I have a question for you though, why do so many battery manufacturers swage the sections together, those straps that connect between cells, as opposed to casting them as one or soldering them? What about isolation between cells, how tight is it really? I bought a battery once the top plastic seam wasn't welded and the damn thing leaked acid all over the place. The reason I ask is I've seen lots of batteries with problems in these areas. Or am I mistaken? Teach us something about why batteries fail prematurely and what to look for, how to avoid a piece of junk, aside from always the same it's our own fault for giving them too much love (which is partly true but there's more to the story).
 
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Dang Jake, ya come back on line and right away start causing trouble and controversy ... welcome back!

Not to be contrary or anything like that, but ...

I really hate to see where someone jumps in and calls a whole category of items junk and waste of time/money.

As simple as batteries appear to be, why are there so many different types and recommendations for maintenance? Lead-acid, AGM, gel-cell, etc. just for SeaDoo applications. Do not get me started about NIMH batteries.

I did make the mistake of getting a couple of them Harbor Freight trickle chargers quite a while back; 2 worked pretty good, 1 totally discharged the connected battery; lessons learned: ya get what ya pay for and check the voltage occasionally to insure no overcharge or discharge.

As for the very expensive chargers for various types of lift vehicles ... I acquired a Prestolift pallet lift a while back to lift stuff up to work on rather than bending down. The built-in charger with a plug attachment did not work, used a standard auto 12v battery driving the hydraulics. Manufacturer quoted me over $150 for a new charger. Being an old electronics tech, a quick perusal of the innards of the internal charger appeared to be no more than a full-wave rectifier and voltage regulator, no sophistication at all, but very high cost. Lesson being that high cost does not necessarily mean high quality or functionality.

Got a Schumacher charger a while back which seems to work very well: turns on at lower voltage and turns off at some upper voltage and goes into monitor mode ... kinda like a battery and charging system in a vehicle. This charger does have selection modes for lead-acid AGM and gel-cel as well as battery size, but I have not seen yet what the consequences are for selecting the wrong type and to complicate the issue it seems the battery manufacturers do not want to clearly mark the battery as AGM. Battery/charger experts out there, clue me in please.

I personally do not think that these smaller batteries would generate enough gas to be a problem in a basement; I do not think the typical basement is confined enough or gas-tight enough to be a problem. Likewise the area around the still should be good: warm and definitely a draft to keep the fire burning.
 
I vote for battery tenders and Costco has the new battery tender plus for $39.99. I have two and just rotate all my batteries through them all year. My boat is still going strong with the original blue top optimas from 2006 and my GTI battery that came with it used 3 years ago is still strong.
 
RodInEscondido said:
As simple as batteries appear to be, why are there so many different types and recommendations for maintenance? Lead-acid, AGM, gel-cell, etc. just for SeaDoo applications. Do not get me started about NIMH batteries.

high cost does not necessarily mean high quality or functionality.

Got a Schumacher charger a while back which seems to work very well: turns on at lower voltage and turns off at some upper voltage and goes into monitor mode ... kinda like a battery and charging system in a vehicle. This charger does have selection modes for lead-acid AGM and gel-cel as well as battery size, but I have not seen yet what the consequences are for selecting the wrong type and to complicate the issue it seems the battery manufacturers do not want to clearly mark the battery as AGM. Battery/charger experts out there, clue me in please.
Click to expand...

So true, often you don't get what you pay for and obviously battery manufacturers are confident you're not going to perform a comprehensive failure analysis. I'd like to see a web site where someone does this type of analysis, the few wet L/A's I've cut open were poorly constructed and I feel that's the primary downfall.

The solar guys seem to like the AGM type and they're known for stretching pennies very thinly, they probably answers all your questions here:

http://www.amsolar.com/shop/images/Lifelinemanual.pdf

http://www.amsolar.com/home/amr/page_21
 
I have switched to AGM batteries, did so several years ago. They are basically maintenance free. Their internal discharge rate is much lower, so they only need to be "topped off" with a charge every 3 months or so.

The main reason for going to AGM's is they are more robust. Pounding of wakes really kills traditional lead acid batteries.
 
Sea Dood said:
I have switched to AGM batteries, did so several years ago. They are basically maintenance free. Their internal discharge rate is much lower, so they only need to be "topped off" with a charge every 3 months or so.

The main reason for going to AGM's is they are more robust. Pounding of wakes really kills traditional lead acid batteries.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I do. The batteries are removed and placed in the basement where it's about 60 degrees. Check the voltage every month or so and charge if needed. Usually not needed. I am on 7-8 years with 4 batteries. One other thing, I did try a name brand battery tender one winter. The darn thing shorted out and melted. Just lucky it didn't burn the garage down.
 
yea Rod, almost as much controversy as if I asked "what oil should I use?".

Lou, Sis was refusing to go outside and chop firewood when it was -15 so we ran out of wood to keep the still going.

I have an Optimate IV charger that I top the batteries off with every month or so. I just figured that if car batteries go dead in the frigid temps, it might not be a good idea to leave the batteries sitting in my garage where it has been below freezing several nights. Sounds like everyone has their own opinion on that. Maybe we should get the Doc to conduct an experiment on this like he did with the antifreeze last winter.
 
Just keep them in the living room close (but not too close) to the fire place; they will be just fine. Back in the old days at the University of Alaska you could always tell who had a car because they kept the battery in the dorm room when not actually in use.

I am a big fan of quality battery maintainers, mostly because I tend to lose track of time and forget to check things.
 
bigJake said:
yea Rod, almost as much controversy as if I asked "what oil should I use?".

I just figured that if car batteries go dead in the frigid temps, it might not be a good idea to leave the batteries sitting in my garage where it has been below freezing several nights.
Click to expand...

The battery loses some ability to produce current in cold weather and the engine is more difficult to spin, thus winter will reveal weaknesses.

Then IMO, as long as the electrolyte didn't freeze and dislocate and break a plate lose, create a microshort or break the case, everything should be as it was once warmed back up.

One phenomenon that can happen to a wet cell sitting undisturbed for months is the electrolyte can stratify, meaning the specific gravity of the water will become non-uniform. Charging will create electrolyte circulation in that case, to correct the issue. A discharged battery will grow an insulating passivation sulfide layer on the plates, causing loss of capacity.
 
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