99 spx won't start/turn over

[Thumper3322]

So I got the new parts (housing/valves) put everything back together correctly. Decide to start it up on the lift before going for a ride.
Well as it seems ever since I have bought the seadoo the starter has been weak. So go to start it (after a week of sitting), it hesitates then turns over a few times before I stop pressing the start/stop button. (Don't want to burn the starter out). Pull choke try to start again, same thing and let it turn over 5-10 cranks. Then let it sit and try again.. well then it just doesn't! Nothing, makes a sound (clunk and red wire to starter moves) like it wants to but nothing happens doesn't turn over at all... WTF??

Thought the battery was low, put a charger on reads 60% let it charge. While doing so, pull the rave valves yet again to makes sure all is well there, didn't jam etc,. all is good. Charger gets up to 100% try again. Same, nothing, just a clunk, but nothing. Check the voltage while starting on the battery charger, down to 9.5ish area. So getting annoyed I hold the start/stop button for longer hoping of something, and some smoke starts to come from the starter. Feel it and it is really hot.

PLEASE help!! I am getting so frustrated, one thing after another it seems.

Could this be the starter? Could something but stuck on the pistons/crank? Where should I begin? How can I get in to move the engine by hand without ripping everything apart?

Thx!

 

[Seadoobuddy]

I think the battery doesn't have enough power to start the motor.
you can turn the crank by hand....remove the plugs and find the shaft in the craft (behind PTO) and see if you can turn it.
smoke from the starter isn't good....good idea to let it cool before trying again. it may be burnt by now????????

9.5 sounds too low....others will chime in on this.

Put a good battery on and see what happens.

 

[Thumper3322]

Thx.... I'm not sure how to get to the shaft behind the PTO, it is covered by a big plastic plate thing.

I hope so... maybe why it has always been crappy, but figured with fully charged and while the charger was on it, would have enough power. I guess I can swap it with my brothers, as his starts np.

 

[Thumper3322]

So swapped my battery with my brothers (his machine starts np), same motomaster battery, and still the same thing, clunk then nothing. Other suggestions? PLEASE!!

 

[jhjesse]

Thx.... I'm not sure how to get to the shaft behind the PTO, it is covered by a big plastic plate thing.

I hope so... maybe why it has always been crappy, but figured with fully charged and while the charger was on it, would have enough power. I guess I can swap it with my brothers, as his starts np.

Remove the plugs.
Remove the big plastic thing by unscrewing the wing nuts.
Grab hold of the PTO (white thing with the drive shaft coming out) and roll the engine over by hand. It should be easy.
If the engine rolls over easy, then replace the starter.
If the engine doesn't roll over easy then further trouble shooting is required.
Start with removing the driveshaft, then trying to roll the engine over by hand again. If the engine rolls over easy, the jet pump is your problem.
If the engine continues to be difficult to rollover then something internally is wrong.

 

[Dr Honda]

The 800 engine is hard to crank.

Just because you swapped the battery doesn't mean anything. You need a good strong battery. If it doesn't hold 10.6v MINIMUM while trying to crank... it's not going to go. Also... when that starter, stalls... it's a dead short on the system... and it will cook everything. (cables, starter, solenoid, etc)

On a cold start... if it stalls for a second or 2... that's normal on the 800. But once it's been running, it should crank immediately.


So...

1) get a good battery
2) Make sure the calbes are clean and tight. (take them off, and clean them)
3) Check the cables for resistance
4) Clean/rebuild the starter


Last thing... since we know you have abused the starter with a weak battery... a new/good battery by itself may not help.

 

[Thumper3322]

Remove the plugs.
Remove the big plastic thing by unscrewing the wing nuts.
Grab hold of the PTO (white thing with the drive shaft coming out) and roll the engine over by hand. It should be easy.
If the engine rolls over easy, then replace the starter.
If the engine doesn't roll over easy then further trouble shooting is required.
Start with removing the driveshaft, then trying to roll the engine over by hand again. If the engine rolls over easy, the jet pump is your problem.
If the engine continues to be difficult to rollover then something internally is wrong.

Well I tried to roll over the engine as you suggested, but can't do it by hand. Doc says it's really hard. I'm suppose to grab this wheel and be able to turn it? It doesn't move at all.

 

[Thumper3322]

The 800 engine is hard to crank.

Just because you swapped the battery doesn't mean anything. You need a good strong battery. If it doesn't hold 10.6v MINIMUM while trying to crank... it'a not going to go. Also... when that starter, stalls... it's a dead short on the system... and it will cook everything. (cables, starter, solenoid, etc)

On a cold start... if it stalls for a second or 2... that's normal on the 800. But once it's been running, it should crank immediately.


So...

1) get a good battery
2) Make sure the calbes are clean and tight. (take them off, and clean them)
3) Check the cables for resistance
4) Clean/rebuild the starter


Last thing... since we know you have abused the starter with a weak battery... a new/good battery by itself may not help.

Thx for replying Doc. From what I can see the starter only runs into the MPEM? Where is the solenoid in the front electrical box?

To get at the starter I have to remove the intake, arrestor, I can leave carbs on? Is it hard to remove?

 

[LouDoo]

Hi Marc,

I've been to the lake, and I just got your PM. Dr Honda is the best on this forum, take his advise. I know that you're frustrated and I can't blame you.

I would take the battery and have it load tested, if it's bad replace it. Check the battery cables, twist them if they crunch they have internal corrosion and need to be replaced. Clean the battery connections and grounds. If that doesn't help replace or rebuild the starter, you're usually much better off either having your starter rebuilt or rebuilding it yourself, do not buy a cheap Chinese starter.

Good luck,

Lou

 

[LouDoo]

Marc,

Looks like a couple of other posts have come in while I was answering.

Remove the spark plugs and see if you can turn the engine over by hand.

If you have removed the plugs and can't turn the engine over by hand then you've got other issues. Since you have just replaced the rave valves I would start there. Take the rave valves out and see if the engine will turn over by hand.

Lou

 

[SPEED18]

when you say "
Grab hold of the PTO (white thing with the drive shaft coming out) and roll the engine over by hand. It should be easy" how much of a turn should you get, a full 360? The reason i'm asking is i am only able to get about a 1/4 of a turn. i had a couple of motor mounts come flying off under the housing thats over the pto. i was able to wiggle the motor around a little to ensure the bolts went in nice and easy, but am now having that same type of clunking that thumper mentioned. my thread is 97 xp down. thanks

 

[Thumper3322]

Marc,

Looks like a couple of other posts have come in while I was answering.

Remove the spark plugs and see if you can turn the engine over by hand.

If you have removed the plugs and can't turn the engine over by hand then you've got other issues. Since you have just replaced the rave valves I would start there. Take the rave valves out and see if the engine will turn over by hand.

Lou

Thanks Lou! I took the head off tried and nothing, the plugs are out, took out both rave valves to check and they are fine. I tried turning the crank by hand (pics above) and can't move it at all. I tried on my brothers and I can move it in both directions only a bit since I didn't take out the plugs, quick test. Mine will not budge. Blah... How do I disconnect it to test the crank from the jet pump? Hope the jet pump is stuck?!?!

Can't believe this...

Oh... would the piston be able to come up high enough for the piece that broke off from the rave valve to drop in underneath it and fall down into the crankshaft and get stuck? Would/could this happen?

Thanks again!

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Yes...if parts of a broken valve got down into the crank you have issues. Entirely possible...and the fact you can turn it a 1/4 turn I would bet on it.

The starter issue (if motor was fine)....Its a bad ground or power wire. Its usually the ground wire; it rots from the inside. I however had a bad power wire going to the starter. Mine would clunk, then 1-2 sec later crank over fine, finding out I had about 3 strands of wire left. Replaced the wire and it turns over fine now.

 

[LouDoo]

Marc,

I've never heard of a piece of the rave valve getting into the crankcase, if a big enough piece breaks of and gets into the combustion chamber, it can really screw up the engine, broken piston, ruined cylinder head, ruined jug. That's why I thought you were "lucky" when this first happened.

You are going to need to remove the pump to see if the pump is locked or if its the engine.

Lou

 

[Thumper3322]

Yes...if parts of a broken valve got down into the crank you have issues. Entirely possible...and the fact you can turn it a 1/4 turn I would bet on it.

The starter issue (if motor was fine)....Its a bad ground or power wire. Its usually the ground wire; it rots from the inside. I however had a bad power wire going to the starter. Mine would clunk, then 1-2 sec later crank over fine, finding out I had about 3 strands of wire left. Replaced the wire and it turns over fine now.

I can not turn the engine by hand at all! It will not move.

 

[Dr Honda]

Well I tried to roll over the engine as you suggested, but can't do it by hand. Doc says it's really hard. I'm suppose to grab this wheel and be able to turn it? It doesn't move at all.

I can not turn the engine by hand at all! It will not move.

Well.... There may be a new problem.

As Lou said... pull the spark plugs out, and turn the PTO by hand. With the plugs out... it should turn easy. It won't "Spin"... but there should be very little resistance.

If it's tight, and takes effort... then there is a bind in the drive. I would start by removing the pump, and then try to turn it by hand. (don't try to crank it) If it get's easy... make sure the pump is free. If the pump spins free and the engine will now spin free... then the system us grossly out of alignment.

If the engine is still tight... then I would pull the RAVES, and the head.

 

[Thumper3322]

Marc,

I've never heard of a piece of the rave valve getting into the crankcase, if a big enough piece breaks of and gets into the combustion chamber, it can really screw up the engine, broken piston, ruined cylinder head, ruined jug. That's why I thought you were "lucky" when this first happened.

You are going to need to remove the pump to see if the pump is locked or if its the engine.

Lou

Thx Lou... question.. how do I remove the pump? lol... I am looking thru the service manual... Can't seem to find details on that yet.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Take the 4 big nuts off, and the hoses from the inside.

 

[LouDoo]

O.K., I'll be the first to admit that, I'm a shade tree mechanic, so I could be wrong on the piece of the rave valve getting into the crankcase, just because I haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I don't want to mislead anyone or cost anyone unnecsssary work or money.

Lou

 

[Dr Honda]

Thx Lou... question.. how do I remove the pump? lol... I am looking thru the service manual... Can't seem to find details on that yet.

It's basically the 4 big nuts you can see in the corners... but....

1) Remove the nozzle. (4 bolts, and any control cables)
2) Remove the bailing hoses, and cooling hose from inside the hull
3) remove the 4 nuts and slide the pump off

Note: The pump may be hard to remove since you put a little RTV around the hoses.

 

[Thumper3322]

It's basically the 4 big nuts you can see in the corners... but....

1) Remove the nozzle. (4 bolts, and any control cables)
2) Remove the bailing hoses, and cooling hose from inside the hull
3) remove the 4 nuts and slide the pump off

Note: The pump may be hard to remove since you put a little RTV around the hoses.

Thanks doc! I will give that a look... this is starting to get over my mechanical head

Is it possible for a broken off piece of my broken rave valve to get down into the crank?

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks doc! I will give that a look... this is starting to get over my mechanical head

Is it possible for a broken off piece of my broken rave valve to get down into the crank?

Not normally. But if it did... it would lock it. SO... you could probably roll it backward. (know what I mean?) The reason it doesn't get into the lower half is... when it's running... the air flow goes from the lower half, up the bypass ports, across the piston... and out the exhaust port. Realistically... the only way for a hunk of the RAVE to get into the lower half is if you destroy a piston, and it goes through a big hole.

It does happen, where the seal in the pump gives out... and the bearings rust up. (Then nothing moves)

 

[Thumper3322]

do I have to remove the 4 nuts that are deep in the back of the seadoo? The bolts look like they go right into the hull. Looks like some silicone around the housing, and then the nozzle bolts on to that.

 

[Thumper3322]

Not normally. But if it did... it would lock it. SO... you could probably roll it backward. (know what I mean?) The reason it doesn't get into the lower half is... when it's running... the air flow goes from the lower half, up the bypass ports, across the piston... and out the exhaust port. Realistically... the only way for a hunk of the RAVE to get into the lower half is if you destroy a piston, and it goes through a big hole.

It does happen, where the seal in the pump gives out... and the bearings rust up. (Then nothing moves)

k thx... working on taking the pump out. I'm guessing once the 4 bolts are out and it slides out, the shaft should slide out with it?

 

[Thumper3322]

I got the 4 bolts off and the back piece off, guess I have to take off the 4 nuts? And then it just pulls out?