96 xP Sudden Stalling

[SLIMCAT]

Hello Forum
Picked up a 96 Xp last weekend. Started and runs in and out of water. While at cruise speed it just suddenly shuts off. I did notice that while at cruise the battery light will come on and off but only at higher RPM. The only way to restart it is to pull the DESS key out and re-install and she will start but maybe only run a few minutes to a few seconds and shut off again. No hesitation just quit.
I will check the water flow out of the ports tomorrow for overheat.
I do not get the audible two beeps and will head to the shack for a buzzer. I will take out the fuel selector switch and check for clogging.
The only other thing that makes sense after reading the posts is maybe the POST for the DESS.
I will check for voltage at idle and RPM.
If you all have any other suggestions i would gladly entertain them.

Brian in Bethlehem, PA

 

[Dr Honda]

If you are seeing a battery light... that's probably where the problem lies.

Grab a volt meter, and check the voltage at the battery at idle, and at 5000 RPM. It should be between 13 and 14.5v.

For some reason, we are seeing a bunch of bad regulators this year, and strange things happen when the voltage bounces around.

 

[SLIMCAT]

Thanks

I have spent a few hours working on it this AM. I cleaned the battery terminals and metered that battery without cables. 12.5vdc. Re-installed the cables and she fired right up with the maximum voltage achieved being 13.35-13.50 vdc through the rpm range.
Checked the buzzer and it is dead and i will get to the shack to replace it.
Metered out the DESS post and all seems ok with what was advised on the forum. Even while its running i can move, wiggle, tap and all sorts of other shade tree mechanic T/S methods to see if it was the post or lanyard. I'm convinced it is not either.
Checked the fuel delivery, selector and pre-canister filter with no results on anything being blocked.
Checked while running, electrical connections, plug wires, battery wires and so on to see if i could duplicate the stall.
While running sometimes the pisser jet out the back has a steady stream with force and sometimes it is anemic even though the hose is set at the same velocity. I wonder if it is getting enough cooling and maybe overheating? But the jugs are cool and the first section of the header tuned pipe is warmer than i think it shoud be. It is cooler when the pisser has the stronger stream. I had thought that maybe it shut down on overheat. SO if i had the buzzer it would go off and that would be a clue.
All in all i do believe the problem is electrical related somehow. I have to pull the DESS key off and re-install it and it fires right back up.

Thanks for replying, it is greatly appreciated.

I'm located in Bethlehem, PA by the way.

 

[SLIMCAT]

Repairs

Went through some of the electrical today. Fixed the buzzer and you get the two beeps when installing the lanyard.
Removed the box that houses the solenoid/coil. One of the fuse holders that has the white/red wire was severly corroded. Removed all the electrical and glass beaded all the connectors and metered for continuity. the voltage while running now is at 13.95 vdc. This box although not cracked was getting wet or its from years of condensation.
After re-assembly the XP was started and ran with no stalling. We shall see here if this solved the problem. If not i think i will get the coil on EBAY and try this.

I found a small leak where the manifold joins to the tuned pipe but still notice that the tuned pipe gets warmer than it should although the jugs are cool. There is a small leak of sorts at the pressure relief ( the part that looks like a rave valve on the exhaust).

To remove the rave valves do you just undo the two allen hex bolts and remove the valve? I'm sure the will just pop right off and leave the gasket all intact.
Brian

 

[scooper77515]

Sounds like you are well on your way to fixing this outright.

Yes, RAVEs just pop off after 2 allen screws. The one will have to be disassembled on the engine. You will figure out which one when you start to pull it out and it starts hitting stuff. Just take off the top plastic cover and unscrew the inside plastic cap, then pop off the rubber bellows. It should all come out after that. Keep track of which side says UP on the valve. It is put in almost straight up and down, and almost seems more like it should say LEFT or PORT SIDE, or something like that.

 

[true520]

i am having the same issues with a 97 XP. Just shuts off...and i have tried almost everything...my buddy has a 97 too...so we have swapped out the MPEM and the Key post.
after cleaning carbs, filters and even by-passing the off/on petcock, I too thought it was a bad key post...
Switched out the post yesterday to no avail...now it beeps when you put the key back on...but still dies randomly.

I will check the coil box again...i dont remember anything ugly being in there tho..

 

[Bills86e]

terminal 1-15

i am having the same issues with a 97 XP. Just shuts off...and i have tried almost everything...my buddy has a 97 too...so we have swapped out the MPEM and the Key post.
after cleaning carbs, filters and even by-passing the off/on petcock, I too thought it was a bad key post...
Switched out the post yesterday to no avail...now it beeps when you put the key back on...but still dies randomly.

I will check the coil box again...i dont remember anything ugly being in there tho..

97 XP - MPEM Problem


There are three wires going to the DESS post

- White/Gray
- Black/Yellow
- Black

The black wire is ground. The other two wires use the black wire as common.

Here is what happens when you put a key on the post. There is a small reed switch in the post that connects to the black/yellow and black wire. The key has a magnet in it, so it closes the reed switch, effectively shorting the black/yellow and black wires together.

This turns on the MPEM. It begins sending out a signal on the White/Gray wire. The center post of the DESS post is connected to the White/Gray wire, and when you put the key on, it makes contact with both the center post and the ring on the post, which is connected to the black wire (ground) This signal "turns on" the key, and it sends the serial number of the key to the MPEM over the White/Gray wire. The MPEM reads this serial number, and if it matches one of the key serial numbers stored in memory, it activates the MPEM which sends out the two beeps. Once this happens, the key circuit is shut off. It no longer has any function, except that the magnet is needed to keep the MPEM alive. The short between Black/Yellow and Black must always be present to keep the ski running.

A lot of times I see recommendations to clean the key, for people that have problem with the ski quitting while running. This is inappropriate advice; cleaning is only recommended if the ski will not start.

The 97 XP is known for corrosion problems with the MPEM connectors due to the stupid location they put the MPEM. Bills86e

 

[true520]

The 97 XP is known for corrosion problems with the MPEM connectors due to the stupid location they put the MPEM. Bills86e

Does this mean I can find the bad corrosions spots and clean them?

Thanks, Mitch

 

[Bills86e]

I make sure the contacts in the MPEM connector are making good contact. The standard MPEM pins are .055 diameter; I bought a #54 drill at my local machinist supply place which is exactly that size, and slide it into the female MPEM connector pins & make sure the pin has good grip. I think some people try to diagnose wiring problems and slide nails or whatever into the MPEM connector and don't know how fragile these female pins are. Even an .062 diameter nail or pin will ruin the grip of the pins.
If you find you don't have any grip on those particular pins, the fix is easy. Take apart the front of the connector that goes over the pins, and you will see that the female contacts each have three tangs that are supposed to bend inwards to grip the pin. On the ski I fixed, the tangs were pretty much level with the diameter of the contact, from the previous owner or someone putting a probe or other larger-than-contact item in there. Take a tiny pick or screwdriver and carefully bend each tang inward so that it will grab the pin with some pressure. If you buy a #54 drill, it is super easy to test whether you have bent it properly, and make sure the pin will go into it OK. After I am satified they are clean, dielectric grease them, so if this has
fixed the problem, oxidation won't re-occure (knock on wood). Bills86e

 

[SLIMCAT]

Hello Bill

Thanks for replying. I saw your response to the fella with the 97 XP. In your opinion the DESS key is for starting the ski only. So if you get your two beeps you are have to ability to start the engine. Once running the magnet in the Lanyard keeps the communication line open to MPEM to keep the ski running. If you have a loose connection in this three wire DESS plug connector and you loose contact with a pin and communication is lost the ski will shut off? To restart it you will need to remove your lanyard and reinstall it get the two beeps and restart the ski? That is what i got from your suggestion to this guy.
Ok, i will start the ski. i should be able to tap, beat, jiggle and wiggle and almost unplug this connector to duplicate this fault. It is another option to try.
I appreciate you taking the time out to reply.
Sincerely,
Brian

 

[SLIMCAT]

Cooling

Just noticed while working on the craft for some cooling issues, i found that the Pressure regulator assy on the exhaust has absolutely no parts in in what so ever. Just the housing and cover. HHmmmm. what exatly does this do for the exhaust. Could this be the cause of tuned pipe getting warm.
Also, can you remove the top of the head and clean out this area as it looks like a place where clogs can accumulate.
Brian

 

[Bills86e]

The WR - Water Regulator, injects water into the exhaust so that the marine connectors do not burn/melt during the exiting hot exhaust gases. It slows down
at WOT to not impede the flow and make the horsepower overwork.
The ECWI or Water Regulator, will change the timing of when water gets injected into the pipe, which changes the performance a bit. It will not make your boat faster, but is an aid to the accelleration curve. Typically, the WR red cap is the opposite of where the RAVE caps are set. So, if the raves are adjusted outward, the WR cap in adjusted inward or vise versa. Adjusting the WR spring tension valve will either just delay or speed up when the valve opens. They can severly burn inside,
depending on the setting you've chosen, So an annual cleaning is mandatory. Bills86e

 

[SLIMCAT]

rave valves

While cleaning the rave valves i found alot of black grease like stuff in the bellows. I will get the entire rebuild kit for them. Due to what i have seen so far from the work on the ski by the PO, i have a few questions.

The rave valve orientation. Should the beveled edge be facing the port or starboard side?
The main bracket that bolts the rave in place has a small hole in it that goes straight into the bellows area. The block also has this hole. Should these two hole line up when reassembling? They were not on disassembly.
The bellows is held in place by a white tie wrap, is this normal?
The bellows are red in color.
When re-assembling the rave into the bellows and screwing it into the black cap, should i snug it up to the black cap?
Brian

 

[scooper77515]

The RAVE valve has a flat side that says UP on it. It needs to face UP. On our engines, UP is only a little bit different than DOWN, since they are almost mounted straight up and down. But UP needs to be in the more upward position. Boat is not in front of me, but I think UP is to the port side???

I cannot comment on the rest. I don't recall a tie wrap holding the bellows on.

I have seen bellows in red and green.

And there are two schools of thought on where the red screw should be. Some say all the way down. Most say flush with the top of the black cap.

Hope that helps.

 

[true520]

well...my 97 got a lot worse today

I checked all the MPEM and coil box connections and fuese...really saw nothing that looked unusual, corroded, or loose.

for the last 3 or 4 outings, she dies quite often when cold...then after she warms up, I could run around about half throttle with out the sudden dying issue...today tho, she would just suddly die anytime...and more often too. One time she didnt want to take throttle...bogging and choking out...Then one time she even re-fired and ran really rough...like it was mis-firing, or one cylinder was only firing. Then, if you hit the on/off button to kill it, and then refire her, she would run fine for a few hundred yards...then die again.
ugggg....I think I will try a few more things tomorrow...then find a shop somewhere with someone who has more knowledge than i.
thanks for the help

 

[Bills86e]

True520, Yours sounds more like Stator pick-up in the magnito broke. Bills86e

 

[scooper77515]

True520...how much gas is in the tank?

If half a tank or so, try to fill it up and run it. If it runs better, swap out the fuel selector switch.

Sounds a lot like what I had on my XP last year. I beat my head for 2 summers trying to figure it out, then it "fixed itself" when I swapped out the selector switch.

 

[true520]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

True520...how much gas is in the tank?

If half a tank or so, try to fill it up and run it. If it runs better, swap out the fuel selector switch.

Done tried that one....Thanks for the heads up tho

 

[true520]

True520, Yours sounds more like Stator pick-up in the magnito broke. Bills86e

Yeah, Im starting to think that is it as well. ugggg....means the front of the motor has to come off...right?