So I just pick up a 2005 RXT with 54 hours on it for a smoking deal! But there is a catch! The engine needs a complete rebuild. It starts but sounds horrible and there is metal shavings in the oil filter. So I'm trying to put together a list of parts I need for a complete rebuild. I have experience rebuilding the older 2 stroke motors but this will be my first 4 stroke plus it being supercharge too. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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2005 RXT Rebuild Shopping list Need your help guys!
- Thread starter koontek
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BMANN06
Well-Known Member
Pull it apart and see what kinda of condition crank is in. I did a rebuild on a 155 and took the crank and top case to a machine shop to see if the crank was true and if I needed to oversize piston rings. After getting that all sorted I would start with:
1. Crank Bearings
2. Rod Bearings
3. Balance shaft bearings
4. Timing Chain
5. New Stretch bolts (all of them)
6. Tube of Loctite 5940 / loctite medium (blue stuff) / loctite permanent (red stuff)
7. Complete engine gasket set.
8. Spark Plugs
9. Oil filter
Since the hours are low your timing chain may be okay and go over the cylinder head but again with that low of hours its probably in decent shape.
That list will get you started but I might be forgetting something. I ordered all my stuff through sbt ... if I recall it was a little over a $1000.00
1. Crank Bearings
2. Rod Bearings
3. Balance shaft bearings
4. Timing Chain
5. New Stretch bolts (all of them)
6. Tube of Loctite 5940 / loctite medium (blue stuff) / loctite permanent (red stuff)
7. Complete engine gasket set.
8. Spark Plugs
9. Oil filter
Since the hours are low your timing chain may be okay and go over the cylinder head but again with that low of hours its probably in decent shape.
That list will get you started but I might be forgetting something. I ordered all my stuff through sbt ... if I recall it was a little over a $1000.00
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
Wow! That's low hours to need a complete rebuild already.... I gotta wonder just what happened to the thing? Are you sure it wouldn't be simpler/faster just to pull the block out of the hull and send it off to SBT for a professional rebuilt block with warranty? I'd look into it if I were you, you could spend all season trying to learn how to rebuild this block and if you miss even 1 little thing then it won't run right when you get it back into the hull and you're back to square 1!
It would be very helpful to know what the previous owner did to the thing to get it into this kind of condition however. If for instance it simply hydrolocked while the previous owner was running it, then it's likely got a bent connecting rod on 1 of the piston's and replacing just that 1 connecting rod would fix the engine and that you can do yourself! A bent connecting rod will make all kinds of noise as the lower skirt of the piston will strike the crankshaft on the downstroke, and it won't go to full stroke on the compression stage either so the engine will make noises and not run right as a result of just 1 bent part inside. But, you need to know what the previous owner did to cause this 1st so you'll know what to be looking for... at a mere 54 hours it is NOT worn out in any shape form or fashion, something's happened to damage this engine the question is what?
- Michael
It would be very helpful to know what the previous owner did to the thing to get it into this kind of condition however. If for instance it simply hydrolocked while the previous owner was running it, then it's likely got a bent connecting rod on 1 of the piston's and replacing just that 1 connecting rod would fix the engine and that you can do yourself! A bent connecting rod will make all kinds of noise as the lower skirt of the piston will strike the crankshaft on the downstroke, and it won't go to full stroke on the compression stage either so the engine will make noises and not run right as a result of just 1 bent part inside. But, you need to know what the previous owner did to cause this 1st so you'll know what to be looking for... at a mere 54 hours it is NOT worn out in any shape form or fashion, something's happened to damage this engine the question is what?
- Michael
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
Unless it got antifreeze in the engine oil, or was allowed to sit with saltwater in the crankcase, the bearings and timing chain should all be like brand new with only 54 hours on them. We need to know what happened to the thing!
New stretch bolts (for head and case) are all required, but a new head gasket should be all that's needed in the way of gaskets the other's probably won't have to be disturbed. Also need to know what condition the supercharger is in, whether the ceramic clutch washers are still in it and intact... if it's not leaking oil, then simply upgrading the clutch washers to steel should be fine for it until the 100 hr rebuild interval is reached (at only 54 hours, I would not rebuild the SC unless there is definitely something wrong with it!).
Unless there was contamination in the engine oil from antifreeze or saltwater, I wouldn't replace those bearings they should be like brand new still.
- Michael
New stretch bolts (for head and case) are all required, but a new head gasket should be all that's needed in the way of gaskets the other's probably won't have to be disturbed. Also need to know what condition the supercharger is in, whether the ceramic clutch washers are still in it and intact... if it's not leaking oil, then simply upgrading the clutch washers to steel should be fine for it until the 100 hr rebuild interval is reached (at only 54 hours, I would not rebuild the SC unless there is definitely something wrong with it!).
Unless there was contamination in the engine oil from antifreeze or saltwater, I wouldn't replace those bearings they should be like brand new still.
- Michael
BMANN06
Well-Known Member
Finding out what has happened would be nice ... but you'll never be sure even with what the previous owner told you. If your that deep, might as well do the rebuild. In my opion anyway, this way you'll be sure to have everything apart and be able to inspect it. I've rebuild a cylinder head on a 4tec with 47hrs on it. And a sportster 4tec that needed a complete rebuild ... it had 79 hrs on it. Its all in the way ppl maintain their boats ... and you just never know.
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
Well if you're going to go that far, when you add the time involved to the cost of all those parts he might as well just get a short block from SBT and save himself alot of time and aggravation and have a warranty. I just don't think it's worth doing a full and complete rebuild yourself if you're not a professional rebuilder that is well experienced with these 4TEC engines.
Just saying...
- Michael
Just saying...
- Michael
BMANN06
Well-Known Member
Not really sure why we're arguing this ..
OP asked for a shopping list for a rebuild on his 4tec ... I gave him mine, he wasn't asking for advice on whether or not too ... He also stated he's rebuilt the 2 strokes so naturally I assume he knows what he's doing. I saved almost 3 times the cost of a shortblock by doing the rebuild myself including the $180.00 charge for the machining. If you look through the shop manual all the info you need is right there ... including warning areas and very specific details.
OP asked for a shopping list for a rebuild on his 4tec ... I gave him mine, he wasn't asking for advice on whether or not too ... He also stated he's rebuilt the 2 strokes so naturally I assume he knows what he's doing. I saved almost 3 times the cost of a shortblock by doing the rebuild myself including the $180.00 charge for the machining. If you look through the shop manual all the info you need is right there ... including warning areas and very specific details.
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
Ok, I concede rebuild the entire thing then. I never saw this as an argument, just differing thoughts on how to approach getting the machine usable and enjoyable again, I thought that was the point honestly. My mistake I apologize for saying anything.
Regards and best wishes to the OP on it.
- Michael
Regards and best wishes to the OP on it.
- Michael
SBT is out of the question! I had a very bad experience with them last year. I bought a core 787 motor. I went through 3 of there motor before just deciding to rebuilding it myself! They kept on sending me bad motors that had been machined and assemble with the wrong wrong size pistons. I spent more money and time on pulling the bad motors and shipping it back to them then anything. Never again will I buy anything from SBT.
Yah it would be nice to know exactly what happen with the previous owner but he does not know himself. Hopefully I will find time this weekend to pull the motor out and inspect it. I know is that when it was running before it started making the really bad sounds it was running extremely hot. I will keep everybody updated with pictures.
Is there a aftermarket company that makes stronger exhaust valves?
Also the whole rebuilding the motor vs buying a SBT discussion:
Rebuilding it is always cheaper and assuming that this is the first time its being rebuilt the block should still be in good shape! Also from personally experience with sbt you never know what is going into your block ( i kept on getting motors that was bored with the incorrect size pistons and rings) , and who is putting it together. If you do it yourself you know whats going in side your motor and who's machining it. SBT does offer a great warranty but shipping the motor back every time cost a little over $100 bucks each time. The motor should not fail if everything is machine and assemble correctly which with my personal experience with SBT never was!
Anyways here are some pictures of the ski itself!
My 2003 XPDI on the same trailer.
I will also keep you guys updated on the total cost just in case somebody runs into the same situation in the future. Whats the average price for a 2005 RXP with a single trailer go for now days? I see more RXT's for sale then RXP's around where I live.
It was the first motor i rebuilt in my Challenger 1800 that had a fuel problem and scared the pistons. That was not a sbt motor. After that I had my friend who was a service manager at a local seadoo dealer help me installed the SBT motors. We never took them apart to inspect the new motors cause they where new motors. Also SBT frowned on any of there customers taking the motors part to inspect them. After the second bad sbt motor we took the cylinder head off to find out they had installed incorrect pistons and rings for the bore. I'm not here to bash on SBT but i just wanted to let everybody know my PERSONAL experience with them and there 787 motor and that is why I refuse to buy a core motor from them for this rebuild.
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
You are 100% correct, the motors should not have failed somebody at SBT needs to be fired from the sound of it... after the 2nd bad one, I would have called and asked for a supervisor or the owner. No warranty is worth getting a piece of junk after a piece of junk after another piece of junk... shipping isn't free after all, installing and removing is time consuming (bet you got good at pulling and installing them though!).
I wasn't trying to promote SBT particularly, they're just the only "professional" rebuilder shop I know of. If my 4TEC needed a complete tear down and rebuild I've no idea what I'd do actually, hopefully it won't be an issue for me for a very long time. My RXT had a bent connecting rod when I bought it cheap, I was able to replace the bent rod and re-assemble the engine myself and re-install it over 3 weekends time. It was an interesting learning experience, but I wouldn't want to try fully rebuilding it myself if I had any choice.
Regards and good luck and hopefully you'll find something simple and straightforward inside that won't be too difficult to fix. That it overheated is concerning though, a lot of damage could have been done throughout the engine by excessive heat... hope not though!
- Michael
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
ps. I see '05 RXT's lake-ready on single place trailers with less than 100 hours on them selling on Ebay for ~$6000 just about every week... very few sell for less. I have an Ebay search for '05-'06 RXT's that e-mails me the results every morning. I also check my local CraigsList for SeaDoo RXT's about once a week and prices for ready-to-run ones still run ~6K. Just saying.... I keep thinking I might find another one with a bent connecting rod for cheap, LOL!
- Michael
- Michael
Hey Guys,
So we got the motor out of the rxt and broke it down to see exactly what happen. To start off I talk to the previous owner and he stated that he had the dealer do a regular oil change and it never ran the same after that. He inspected the dip stick and he notice it was over filled and had the dealer extract some oil and still never ran the same. When we tore it apart we notice that cylinder number 2 was missing the rod bearing and the rod was damage. We believed the motor hydro lock when it was over filled with oil and caused that bearing to break. It was ran some more after that causing it to score the crank. No sign of over heating though. Other then that pistons and cylinder walls look great. I do however believe the metal shavings from the broken bearing chewed up the oil pump. So here is my shopping list of parts so far. If you guys have any suggestions on where is the cheapest place to buy these parts please let me know!
Super Charger Rebuild kit (mine as well since its all tore apart)
Case Stretch Bolt Kit (do i really need this guys?)
Complete Engine Gasket Kit
1 Rod Assembly
Primary Oil Pump Kit (Rear)
Rod Bearing Kit (do they make over size ones because I will be shaving down the crank .010 down to fix smooth it out)
Timing Chain (do i really need this guys ?)
Wear Ring
Piston Ring Set
Rod bolt kit
Crank Shaft thrust washer kit
Counter Shaft bearing kit
Counter Balance trust washer kit
Counter Balance bearing kit
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
3 Quarts of motor oil
Let me know what you guys think about my shopping list. Tell me if i should get more parts or if i shouldn't buy some things on the list. The motor is at the machine shop getting cleaned. They are also waiting for me to find the correct bearing sizes before they send out the crank to get fix. And now the pictures!
So we got the motor out of the rxt and broke it down to see exactly what happen. To start off I talk to the previous owner and he stated that he had the dealer do a regular oil change and it never ran the same after that. He inspected the dip stick and he notice it was over filled and had the dealer extract some oil and still never ran the same. When we tore it apart we notice that cylinder number 2 was missing the rod bearing and the rod was damage. We believed the motor hydro lock when it was over filled with oil and caused that bearing to break. It was ran some more after that causing it to score the crank. No sign of over heating though. Other then that pistons and cylinder walls look great. I do however believe the metal shavings from the broken bearing chewed up the oil pump. So here is my shopping list of parts so far. If you guys have any suggestions on where is the cheapest place to buy these parts please let me know!
Super Charger Rebuild kit (mine as well since its all tore apart)
Case Stretch Bolt Kit (do i really need this guys?)
Complete Engine Gasket Kit
1 Rod Assembly
Primary Oil Pump Kit (Rear)
Rod Bearing Kit (do they make over size ones because I will be shaving down the crank .010 down to fix smooth it out)
Timing Chain (do i really need this guys ?)
Wear Ring
Piston Ring Set
Rod bolt kit
Crank Shaft thrust washer kit
Counter Shaft bearing kit
Counter Balance trust washer kit
Counter Balance bearing kit
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
3 Quarts of motor oil
Let me know what you guys think about my shopping list. Tell me if i should get more parts or if i shouldn't buy some things on the list. The motor is at the machine shop getting cleaned. They are also waiting for me to find the correct bearing sizes before they send out the crank to get fix. And now the pictures!
Michael211_2000
Well-Known Member
Wow! That'd take a lot of oil to lock the engine that way.... way way way overfull! How could somebody do that and why would only the #2 rod bearing fail and not all 3 rod bearings? Weird!
I guess they locked it on #2 piston after "changing" the oil, realized it was far too full of oil and sucked some out, then returned it to the owner with that damaged bearing and he ran it that way not realizing what they'd done?
I bet they sucked all the oil they could out for the oil change, then put back in the total capacity of 4.6 quarts (or maybe a full 5 even, since they obviously must not have had a clue to being with) not realizing they'd only removed ~3 quarts! That would explain the "how" at any rate. :-(
You can find a good take-out connecting rod off Ebay, that's what I did (my engine had a bent connecting rod when I bought my '06 RXT). ~$70 good used. Replace ALL stretch bolts with new ones (head, case and connecting rod cap stretch bolts). Do not reuse the stretch bolts, they literrally stretch out a bit after they've been torqued down. Many of your parts can be found new on Ebay also for really good prices, but generally there are no returns. I bought used connecting rod with matching rod cap and a new head gasket off Ebay, but got the new stretch bolts from SeaDoo Warehouse. Those were all the parts I needed though to fix my engine. I picked up new filter and 5 quarts of engine oil at local SeaDoo dealership just because it was about the same price as online prices + shipping.
Also starting with a totally oil-less engine it'll take 4.6 quarts of oil so go ahead and buy 5 quarts put 4 in crank and run it a minute then stop and check oil level and add a little more as necessary to reach the middle of the bend in the dipstick. Rated crankcase capacity is 4.6 quarts though not 3.
ps. Be careful when you put the pistons into the cylinders, there is a specific orientation (I put mine in backwards then flipped the crankcase over and realized something looked funny... had to flip it back over and split it again to turn the darn piston around). :-(
- Michael
I guess they locked it on #2 piston after "changing" the oil, realized it was far too full of oil and sucked some out, then returned it to the owner with that damaged bearing and he ran it that way not realizing what they'd done?
I bet they sucked all the oil they could out for the oil change, then put back in the total capacity of 4.6 quarts (or maybe a full 5 even, since they obviously must not have had a clue to being with) not realizing they'd only removed ~3 quarts! That would explain the "how" at any rate. :-(
You can find a good take-out connecting rod off Ebay, that's what I did (my engine had a bent connecting rod when I bought my '06 RXT). ~$70 good used. Replace ALL stretch bolts with new ones (head, case and connecting rod cap stretch bolts). Do not reuse the stretch bolts, they literrally stretch out a bit after they've been torqued down. Many of your parts can be found new on Ebay also for really good prices, but generally there are no returns. I bought used connecting rod with matching rod cap and a new head gasket off Ebay, but got the new stretch bolts from SeaDoo Warehouse. Those were all the parts I needed though to fix my engine. I picked up new filter and 5 quarts of engine oil at local SeaDoo dealership just because it was about the same price as online prices + shipping.
Also starting with a totally oil-less engine it'll take 4.6 quarts of oil so go ahead and buy 5 quarts put 4 in crank and run it a minute then stop and check oil level and add a little more as necessary to reach the middle of the bend in the dipstick. Rated crankcase capacity is 4.6 quarts though not 3.
ps. Be careful when you put the pistons into the cylinders, there is a specific orientation (I put mine in backwards then flipped the crankcase over and realized something looked funny... had to flip it back over and split it again to turn the darn piston around). :-(
- Michael
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Ok guys here is a update on the progress of the rebuild!
Got all the new parts in :
Super Charger rebuild kit (with new bearings)
Stretch Bolt Kit
Secondary Oil Pump Rebuild Kit
Rod Bearing Kit
Main Bearing Kit
Timing Chain
Wear Ring
Rod Bolt Kit
Crank Shaft Thruster Washer Set
Counter Balance Shaft Bearings
Counter Balance Shaft Trust washer Set
4 Tec Rod
Complete engine Gasket Set
Front Oil Sensor
Rear Oil Sensor
Engine Oil
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
Front Oil Pump Cover
Also Got the engine back from the Machine shop. All the parts where hot tank and cylinders hone.
The Crank on the other hand is in bad shape. The crank bearing on cylinder 2 was destroyed and the previous owner still ran it for a little time. That cause a really bad score on the crank where the rod connects. Had to send it out to machine shop that specialize on machining cranks. They also found out the crank was bent .015 . They said they could try to get it balance which they did. But after getting the crank back and measuring my tolerances we realize they took too much off and now the bearings do not fit.
My question is does anybody know where to purchase or if they make over size rod bearings?
I really really do not want to look into finding a new crank . The Crank seems to be the most expensive part of this motor!
Got all the new parts in :
Super Charger rebuild kit (with new bearings)
Stretch Bolt Kit
Secondary Oil Pump Rebuild Kit
Rod Bearing Kit
Main Bearing Kit
Timing Chain
Wear Ring
Rod Bolt Kit
Crank Shaft Thruster Washer Set
Counter Balance Shaft Bearings
Counter Balance Shaft Trust washer Set
4 Tec Rod
Complete engine Gasket Set
Front Oil Sensor
Rear Oil Sensor
Engine Oil
Oil Filter
Spark Plugs
Front Oil Pump Cover
Also Got the engine back from the Machine shop. All the parts where hot tank and cylinders hone.
The Crank on the other hand is in bad shape. The crank bearing on cylinder 2 was destroyed and the previous owner still ran it for a little time. That cause a really bad score on the crank where the rod connects. Had to send it out to machine shop that specialize on machining cranks. They also found out the crank was bent .015 . They said they could try to get it balance which they did. But after getting the crank back and measuring my tolerances we realize they took too much off and now the bearings do not fit.
My question is does anybody know where to purchase or if they make over size rod bearings?
I really really do not want to look into finding a new crank . The Crank seems to be the most expensive part of this motor!
What went wrong with your motor and how many hours did you have on it? The longest part is trying to find a crank that was price fair. I was looking around for used cranks but they all had bad measurements. I finally decided to go with a rebuilt crank from seadoo. Now its getting put back together. Hopefully it will be done soon!
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