2003 XPDI Need some Advice!!!

[Nodakman]

So here is my story of my 2003 xpdi.
I bought this ski this past winter which I new from the get go I would need to do some work on it. The person I bought it from had it sitting for a few years and stopped riding it because it developed a fuel issue. He brought it to the stealership and they told him it had a problem with the direct injection and it (the whole di rail) would probably need to be replaced, which isn't cheap especially if they did it, so he put it in storage until I bought it with 40hrs on the machine.

Once the weather warmed up I started working on her. This ski looks immaculate with only 40 hours on it everything looks brand new. I started with sucking out the old gas, got a new battery, new plugs,checked all the fuses, fresh premium, and looked at everything else. Brought it to the water for the first time and fired right up and ran great up to 3/4 throttle and the it would bog down about 5900 rpm. I thought that was pretty good for the first run. Then I brought it out for another run later that week and then the issues came up, I basically got about 50ft from the dock and I had to milk it back in, but no maintenance light . I knew something was wrong so I started diagnostics.
I believe it's the fuel pump from what I have found out. Here is all the info so far. - cylinder compression 105 and 110 psi not to bad but not great either, have great spark on both cylinders. The fuel pressure - key on goes right to 27psi and holds, try to start it and sometimes it would cough to life, if I pulled the plugs and turned it over no fuel would be coming out at all until it made a few revolutions. Once I could see fuel coming out then I'd put the plugs back in and it would fire right up. On the most recent test at idle it was hovering at 95psi, but if you give it throttle it would pull down to about 80-75. Sometimes it would randomly go to 107 but wouldn't stay there. Before this test I pulled it all apart and cleaned everything - di rail, fuel and air pressure regulators, fuel pump( put new sock on pump), also a new 2001 filter ( cut the org one out). One thing I did notice on the air compressor line it did have a bit of milky residue in it. What would that be from??

From all the info provided what should I do? Get another prone to fail fuel pump assembly from stealership? Try a 9amp HighFlow (HFP-342DI) fuel pump? Any and all advice on my xpdi would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!! - Nodakman

PS- I live in ND so I don't have much time left for the season and id love to get this beast back on the water asap!

 

[roundtopjeff]

My brother in law has 03 XPDI's and had his fuel pump went bad. We put in the HighFlow(HFP-342DI) and it ran great....for 1 day. He sent it back and put in a new OEM (around $500) and has been trouble free for 2 seasons

 

[Nodakman]

My brother in law has 03 XPDI's and had his fuel pump went bad. We put in the HighFlow(HFP-342DI) and it ran great....for 1 day. He sent it back and put in a new OEM (around $500) and has been trouble free for 2 seasons

I'm curious where you got an oem pump for 500? Hook a brother up if you've got a place to get one for that price... seriously let me know!

 

[Nodakman]

Another question is if I do go oem should I buy an 04 pump, which I've read is an updated version from the 03? Does anyone know if this is a good idea/possible? The lowest price I can find is about 900
shipped, same price for 03 and 04.

 

[roundtopjeff]

I'm curious where you got an oem pump for 500? Hook a brother up if you've got a place to get one for that price... seriously let me know!

I believe he got dealers cost from Dee's Marine in Detroit Area.....is that low....whats retail?

 

[Nodakman]

Retail is 883 before tax and shipping ... Pretty spendy in my opinion.

 

[68ragtop]

Don't overlook your air pressure. If your air pressure is low, it will drop your fuel pressure.
Air pressure directly effects the fuel pressure. that's why there is only 27lbs at key install. there is no air pressure yet. You should have 90+/- PSI of air pressure even at cranking If you don't you won't see full fuel pressure either. 90+27 = 107 psi Both pumps are capable of much higher numbers, but when both are working correctly, the regulators will keep them in those pressure ranges.

 

[Nodakman]

True and that was one thing I have not fully tested yet was the air pressure ... I have to find some hose and a few things to get hooked up properly. Also I have the manual but it doesn't clearly define how your supposed to hook it up, does the gauge need to be inline or can you just unplug it from the compressor and hook up a gauge on one end? I wish they would have described a little better on how it is supposed to be done. Do you know?

 

[68ragtop]

To correctly test the air pump & the regulator, it needs to be inline like the fuel pump pressure test. But, you could dead end the air line with a pressure gage. Just make sure you only crank it for a short time & don't let the pressure get over 90, if its healthy, it should jump to at 80 psi during cranking RPM's. The bad news is, that don't really test the whole system. Also, make sure the air intake hose isn't pinched somewhere under the engine.

 

[Nodakman]

So the proper way would be to get the seadoo adapter and put it inline. And I suppose soapy water in a spray bottle to check for leaks on the rest of the system? Another thing i noticed was the air line had what looked like milky oil in the line from the di to the compressor and when I pulled the di rail I saw it in there to. Not sure on that but I thought I would mention it.

 

[68ragtop]

What I would do, is pull the air line off the rail, find a larger air line you can put over the rail connector & clamp it. Just don't damage the o-ring. Dead head a gage on that line, hold your throttle wide open (flood mode) & see how much pressure it will build. Really should only take a few seconds to build to 80 ish. If it gets to 80 or goes higher just stop cranking. If you let the pressure build to 100psi or higher you could damage something. You will see it start to happen & just stop cranking. This will tell you at least if the air pump itself is healthy.
As far as the milky fluid. The air pump is lubricated by an oil injector just like the main cylinders. The extra oil becomes pressurized below the air pump piston & returns to the oil filler neck. you might want to make sure that line is clear. Its possible that it just has too much oil in the air pump case. The pump draws its air for compression from a hose that goes under the engine & to the air intake box. the connection is right between the throttle bodies. Sounds like it might be getting extra oil from somewhere. moisture is typical in the system because the pump is compressing air. But it shouldn't be milky fluid.

Test your cranking pressure & go from there.

 

[Nodakman]

So I have tested for compression from the air compressor and I got a big old zero. No pressure coming from the compressor at all (blue arrow). One thing that seemed odd to me was that I was getting air pressure from the rail (red arrow) and nothing from the compressor when cranking. I do not know how the guts are in the rail but I would think air pressure is not supposed to come out in the direction of the compressor. What do you think? Maybe the air regulator is shot.

Now that I know the compressor is not putting out I've got to investigate that first I suppose. It was getting dark so I had to call it quits for the night but tomorrow after work I'll try again.

So plan for tomorrow is check the supply line and then if that is good take out the air compressor itself?

Thanks for your help!

 

[68ragtop]

The pump does have two air outlets. the other is a small black line that goes to the rave solenoid. might want to make sure that doesn't have a big leak while your in there checking things. The air inlet line is probably going to be a bear to get to on that ski. I have never worked on a DI in an XP hull, but I have a feeling its going to be out of reach? The top of the pump comes off pretty easy. three 10mm headed hex bolts & its sealed with an o-ring.

the trouble is to completely remove it you need to get the inlet line off, the rave supply line & two cooling lines off. Thats the tougher part. hopefully theres just something wrong in the compressor head & not the piston itself. to get the piston out, you have to pull the PTO flywheel

Be carful not to spin the engine over without the pump cover in place. The pump cylinder is just slid in place & the cover secures it. Its very possible for the piston to push the sleeve out & really damage some things otherwise.

I am at a loss as to why you would have pressure coming out of the rail with that hose off unless the air injectors are leaking? What is the current compression on each cylinder?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

This sounds like some very good advice: "Be carful not to spin the engine over without the pump cover in place. The pump cylinder is just slid in place & the cover secures it. Its very possible for the piston to push the sleeve out & really damage some things otherwise."

Perhaps the pressure on the rail is coming from the cylinders?

 

[68ragtop]

Perhaps the pressure from the rail is coming from the cylinders?

I think your exactly right. The more I think about it, if he's cranking it over in normal run mode, the air injectors are opening to release the air/fuel mixture but instead the compression blows into the rail.

I know holding the throttle wide open shuts off the fuel injectors, but not positive on the air injectors. Sure would think they both shut off.

Nodakman, are you holding it in flood mode when cranking it?

 

[Nodakman]

My engine compression was about 110'when I checked it last. As for the pressure coming out of the rail I know for sure it is piston compression, but I'm not sure if it is supposed to do that. I would think that the pressure should only be able to go forward not backwards from the air compressor. They way it's working now the air compressor is fighting with the piston compression, which leads me to think the air regulator is not working. What ever is going on with the rail be it the air regulator or something else, is probably the cause of the air compressor not working correctly.

Any xpdi owners out there please chime in!
(Or anyone that knows how the dang thing is supposed to work) haha[emoji16]

 

[Nodakman]

Whoops missed that one.. No I was not holding it flood mode. That could be y I wasn't getting pressure from the compressor?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

ragtop is your best guy to talk too about your DI, he just finished rebuilding his motor from the bottom up.

And if you don't have the seadoo shop manual for your ski then you need to download it. The real one published by Seadoo. You'll be glad you did.

 

[Nodakman]

I do have a shop manual from seadoo manuals.net but I don't know if it is the real seadoo one. Where should I get one if mines not good enough? ..

I want to thank you and ragtop for all the info you have put in I sincerely appreciate all the help!!!

So tomorrow I will try in flood mode to see if That makes a difference and I will post my findings after some more checking.

 

[68ragtop]

Flood mode isn't going to change the output of your compressor. The compressor is strictly a mechanical unit thats only sensitive to RPM's The regulator in the rail will limit it to 90 PSI & bypass the excess air out the back of your ski in the same way the fuel gets returned to the tank.

When the engine is cranking in a normal running engine, the air pressure in the rail is higher than the pressure in the cylinders at the point of injection so the air/fuel mix goes in. because you have zero pressure with the hose off, the air just goes the other direction. Nothing really wrong at all. I am sure flood mode will turn off the air injectors. So install your key, hold the throttle wide open & I'll bet you no longer feel air coming out. If you do, you have leaking air injectors. But I kinda doubt it.

I have come to realize that holding them in flood mode is very important when taking a static compression test too. It will actually boost higher as it floods the cylinders with fuel, & in your case your loosing PSI from the compressed air going the other direction. Its also important to do that when checking compression. Check you compression again in flood mode & I'll bet your numbers go up. 110 is low for a DI. If your gauge is accurate a strong engine should be around 140. Don't panic tho, I have seen more inaccurate gages than accurate ones.

Back to your issue tho, you definitely have a compressor problem. if it will not build any pressure during cranking, I would double check the other hoses I mentioned above & if that looks good remove the top of the compressor & take a look.

Hopefully the air piston & cylinder are ok & you just need the top half. That would be an easy fix. The slime you saw coming out of the hose has me worried a bit tho.

 

[68ragtop]

ragtop is your best guy to talk too about your DI, he just finished rebuilding his motor from the bottom up.

Actually Ive become so obsessed with the DI's & bought a couple more in distress.
Two are now rebuilt, & one still apart. I find them intriguing, that or I am just a gluten for punishment. probably a little of both.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I think the DI must run better under most conditions than a carbed motor so I don't blame you there! FI is the best thing that has happened to the internal combustion engine since Cadillac fitted the electric starter. It gets a little iffy when it comes to marine applications but as long as it works correctly it's definitely an improvement IMO. Especially if you know your way around FI.

I hadn't heard the DI blows 140psi, more like 130psi is tops?

I love swinging the dead cat!

 

[68ragtop]

Originally I thought 130 was the magic number as well to be honest, just like the carb'd 951's

My first DI was an absolute piece meal abortion of a seadoo. it had WSM .50 over pistons in it & it had 130 each side & some light scoring. When I rebuilt it, I used all OEM BRP parts including gaskets & Seals. I took the time to CC the chamber per the manual to make sure I was within spec for deck height because I trusted nothing that was in the engine & I had a new head & cylinder to add to the mix. Today, That engine currently has 145 each lung.

The second DI I finished about 6 weeks ago, It was a one owner virgin with 85 hours
It had spit the crank bearings (I think you saw that mess) But it did still run. I did a compression test on it before teardown & it was at 140 & 132. tuned out the 132 side had some bearing fragments go through. All rebuilt now & I used the same .6 mm base gasket as was in it. it has 142 each hole.

So my findings sure don't make 140 the rule as its only a few tests. but those findings have been pretty consistent for me.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm convinced, hadn't come across this high of result on DI anywhere before so thanks!

 

[68ragtop]

I'm convinced, hadn't come across this high of result on DI anywhere before so thanks!

It would be interesting to hear more results from other members that have a decent gage tho.

Nodakman, back to your thread. I just got home & I plugged a noid light into the air injector plug on a DI.
no pulses when in flood mode. So you should get no air out of the rail if you hold WOT at cranking.

Re take your compression with it in flood mode if you want. you should see a jump in your readings. Not sure its going to go from 110 to 140, but it should go up.

let us know what you find with the air pump too!