01 gtx di

[chicknwing]

01 GTX DI Updated

A little background on this ski first,

I acquired this ski from the original owner who bought it new in 01. He told me that he had been having some issues with the ski being stuck in limp mode and had made several trips to the mechanic with no relief from the problem. He finally threw in the towel and parked the machine in 2008 (last state registration sticker). He offered me the ski for $500 and I politely declined. I made a counter offer for $100 since I had not seen it. We ended up agreeing on $200 sight unseen. (the ski was 5 hours away) I was told the ski might have 30 hours on it. But a photo before i went to get it showed writing on the inside of the engine compartment showing a date from 2006 compression 105 on both cylinders and 46.2 hours.

I spoke with one of my friends who is a master Yamaha mechanic and he told me to go for it. (worst case part it out). I picked the ski and trailer up last weekend and brought it the 300 miles back home and now the process begins.

First thing i noticed is the starter relay is disconnected and lying in the rear storage box. I broke out the shop manual and did a bench test on it with the multi-meter. Checking the resistance it appears the solenoid is an open circuit. I charged the battery and re-installed the solenoid in the ski and installed the key. Got the two beeps (good so far) hit the start stop button and nothing. I can hear the fuel pump running but that is all. Got the multi-meter out and checked the dc voltage to the posts of the solenoid. Battery side is correct showing 11.89 vdc. starter side showed nothing. Pressed the start stop button and checked. No voltage. On the multi-function gauge the ski shows 89.2 hours and the red light is flashing and "MAINT" on the screen.

I found a relay on ebay for around $25, I believe this is the next logical step so the machine can turn over and I can do a compression check. (I could jump the posts on the relay to turn it over) If you guys have any advice on next steps please feel free to post below.

 

[chicknwing]

Went out and spent some time with the ski today. Just wanted to get acquainted with it and look for obvious problems. Noticed a few things right off:

1. Air box that connects to the throttle bodies is not properly attached.



2. Found a single piece of the grey tempo fuel line. It is actually showing a gummy reside on the outside of the line.



3. I removed the spark plugs and wanted to turn the engine by hand to verify it was not locked up. I crawled under the ski and noticed the intake grate is missing.



4. Further than that, someone has broken the bolts off.



5. My first look at the driveshaft.



I could not get the drive shaft to turn by hand. I started to fear the engine was locked up. Decided I needed to look at the pump and impeller to make sure they were not seized. Broke out the laptop with the shop manual and got the instructions to remove the housing.

 

[chicknwing]

I got the reverse gate and nozzle off without major issues. I pulled the oil fill and checked the oil. I stuck a small wire in the hole and found no oil. I pulled the cone off and found a very small amount of oil inside. very black and smelled burnt. When I was able to see inside the pump housing I decided I needed to pull the whole thing.



Good thing I did. Once I finally got it free this is what I found.



I went back to the drive shaft and was able to turn the engine easily by hand. I decided to remove the ride plate since I intend to replace it. A small bottle jack and two blocks of wood made quick work of it. As mentioned in the first post I needed to verify the starter relay was bad, so I crossed the posts and the engine spun over freely. Without my compression tester I had no way to check the compression, so I put my fingers over both spark plug holes and had my helper cross the posts on the relay. The compression blew both of my fingers off very quickly and with about the same amount of force. I know this is no precise measurement of the compression but it was the best I could do since my compression tester is with my friend about 2 hours away from me. I reinstalled the spark plugs and put my spark tester on each one and spun the engine over. No indication of spark. Maybe the bulb is burned out, I need to test the bulb and replace it. Is there any other reason besides the coils being bad that would cause a no spark condition? I cleared the flashing "MAINT" from the multi display and reinstalled the key. The light and maint came right back on. I'm guessing it's time to buy a candoo unit.

If you guys can think of some other things I need to look at please let me know.

 

[AdamXP800]

I'm not sure you should get spark by jumping the relay. I believe it just engages the starter and turns the motor over. But I'm am by no means an expert, especially on DI skis

 

[lamajama]

Those broken bolts are going to be a bee-yatch.

 

[AdamXP800]

And damn, what was he riding in. That impeller is roughhhhh

 

[lamajama]

Thankfully only $200 to start. This could be a wallet-drainer.

 

[AdamXP800]

It seems it will be a wallet drainer. Once all the pump work and starter work is done comes the real work, the "DI" system

 

[chicknwing]

Those broken bolts are going to be a bee-yatch.

Hopefully just a good drill bit and an e-z out.

And damn, what was he riding in. That impeller is roughhhhh

I have no idea, but I now know what he led me to believe is not exactly how he rode and maintained this ski.

 

[chicknwing]

Thankfully only $200 to start. This could be a wallet-drainer.

It seems it will be a wallet drainer. Once all the pump work and starter work is done comes the real work, the "DI" system

Maybe I will get lucky. I plan to fully evaluate this thing before I start dropping money in it. The road very well may lead to parting it out. Should be able to turn a profit on it with the small investment.

 

[lamajama]

Parting it you certainly could. The fuel pump alone is worth over the $200 - assuming it works that is.

 

[DooWacka]

It looks like a great project DI, especially for only $200.
I'm envious! I would only part it out as a last resort.

The grey line is for water, not fuel. so don't worry. It feeds cooling water to a regulator that the MPEM controls, deciding how much to feed into the muffler, depending upon rpm etc..

The sheared bolts to hold the inlet grate may not be as bad as you think. They look like front bolts, which are through the hull, and you access the nuts on the backside of them from inside the hull. Without knowing about the backside nuts, using a drill and EZout isn't so "easy". The back bolts on the inlet grate are often more difficult since they have Loctite 271 Red, which usually requires heat to remove, even using an EZout. The bad part is that they are in plastic, which doesn't like heat. I can't figure that design.



I agree with "GtxMan", that bypassing the start relay will turn the motor over, but probably won't provide spark. The MPEM is involved with everything on these boats, so unless it sends power to the coil, you will not get spark. So you need to use the start button. I have tried to build cheaper start relays, with not much success, so I would suggest you just buy an OEM relay. They were about $45 last time I bought one. The Skidoo (snow version) were cheaper for the same part.

I'm glad the motor turns over! Rebuilding the frozen pump isn't nearly so bad.

Looks like fun.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Im surprised no one said 105 compression is way low....it should run but not very well, or it was a crappy tester.

On those intake grate bolts...dig inside the silicone inside the hull and you should find some lock nuts on top of nuts embedded in the hull. Usually though they tightened them so tight the bolts are cross threaded and are a total PITA to get out. The last one I did took 2 hours.

Also note that the inserts are ripped out of the pump shoe. Pick up some threaded brass inserts from the hardware store and epoxy them in.

Sending you a PM on the parts you asked about...

 

[chicknwing]

Also note that the inserts are ripped out of the pump shoe. Pick up some threaded brass inserts from the hardware store and epoxy them in.

Looking at the parts diagram and do not see the inserts your looking at. Can you point me in the right direction. Thanks.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Thats b/c its part of the pump shoe. They arent listed in the diagram. Its where the back bolts of the intake grate screw to.

 

[chicknwing]

A few notes from work on the ski today.

First, I did a compression test, engine was cold showed 125 psi in both holes. Held throttle wide open during the test. Allowed engine to turn over about 10 revolutions for each cylinder. I decided that with the compression looking okay I would try to get the engine to fire off. Holding the start button I jumped the posts on the solenoid and could not get it to start. Decided to check for spark so I put my inline spark tester on and held the start button while i jumped the solenoid. No spark. (I did test my spark tester on a generator and it is functioning properly) Decided to check all the fuses and make sure every thing was proper. The injector fuse was the wrong fuse 10 amp was installed, changed it for a 15 amp. Accessory fuse was also wrong, manual calls for a 2 amp fuse and a 5 amp was installed, changed that one. When I pulled the fuel pump fuse it came completely apart so I replaced it also. Did a little reading on the MPEM and discovered that it monitors the levels in the fuel and oil tanks. not sure how much oil is in the tank. I didn't have any API-TC oil in the shop, all I have is TCW3. Not wanting to take a chance I left well enough alone for the night.

So a couple of questions, first, could the oil level being low prevent spark? Second, should the engine be warm before I conduct a compression test or will the cold numbers suffice? If the cold numbers are okay is 125 psi in each cylinder acceptable? Does anyone see issues with the fuses I mentioned being incorrect as an issue that would hold the ski in limp mode? Any harm is using the TCW3 oil for testing purposes?

 

[chicknwing]

bumping, looking for answers to the questions...

 

[smc0922]

Spark issue is in need of more diagnostics. Get a new starter solenoid in there and it will make testing less painful.

Compression at 125 is good on a 951. My carb 951 has 130 on a 20 hour old rebuild.

As with any ski resurrection, it's mechanical first, functional second, and cosmetic third.

Evaluate the whole ski as you have and make a list. Then prioritize the list in the three categories I listed.

So right now mechanically everything should be good as it has compression and everything appears to be spinning in harmony. Jet pump mechanics are another story, but that's much less expensive to deal with.

Now we're on to functionality. Follow the no spark procedure in the shop manual. You'll be checking the coil, pickup, and stator.

Also- a bad regulator/rectifier does weird things. Disconnect the red/black wire and see if you get spark.

 

[DooWacka]

I agree with smc0922, replace the start relay to remove a bunch of possibilities and make your troubleshooting easier. Now that you know you have good compression, that makes it worth investing more money. As I said previously, the MPEM is extremely involved with these DI watercraft, and it could easily be preventing spark if some readings from various sensors don't make sense.

Remove the front storage compartment and look back in at the oil tank on top of the fuel tank. If you can see some oil in it, you are good for trying to start. Don't mix lower quality oils, and DO NOT use TCW3. The DIs were designed for full synthetic XP-S oil. Since you have good compression, the lower end is also probably good, so why ruin the future and create possibility for much greater expense. I know you're excited and want to hear it start up, but take a little care now, so you aren't sorry later.

 

[lamajama]

What DooWacka says x100.

That man is the resident expert on DI's. :thumbsup:

 

[chicknwing]

Thanks, that's exactly why I asked before I did something stupid! Will be getting a relay in a week or so and will pick up the proper oil this week.

 

[chicknwing]

Holy Hell! It started! Starter relay is not bad. Turns out the battery is not holding enough of a charge. One of my friends is in town and I was showing him the ski, he wanted to see the hours and the battery was dead. I put my charger on the battery and just by chance pushed the start button and the engine turned over. Surprised, I let it charge a few minutes and hit the button again and the thing fired off and started. I immediately pulled the key and turned it off. Stoked that it runs! Now to sort the other issues out. Wear ring and impeller, intake grate, new battery, fresh gas and a trailer. I see a Candoo in the works to sort the limp mode the previous owner says the ski is stuck in. What a great way to end a birthday!!!