My 787 seized for some reason

[Austrian Rotax]

I was cleaning up my hull on my 95 xp when I just went to turn the flywheel on my 96 xp and it is totally seized it is stored in my outdoor garage, tried my hardest to turn and it wont budge either way. mind you, it was -20 at the time. I last started it three months ago which was when I choked it out with fogging oil, it took a good 20-30s to stall from the fogging oil too so im sure it was well lubed and I used 100% pure antifreeze suitable for aluminum engines, I poured it down one of the nipples on the head, the hose with the flush fitting. Im cant believe my engine would seize considering my lawnmower sits outside under two feet of snow without even being fogged I can still turn it over with the rope lol. Something in the pump possibly frozen? I chaned my pump oil at beginning of last summer and it had no water in oil. Any help appreciated thanks you

 

[96spxpos]

bro, first thing to do: take the plugs out, spray a bit more of fogging oil in it, or possibly even a bit of your oil you premix with (or put in your oil injection tank) and see if you can turn the pto by hand and let us know asap

 

[96spxpos]

When you try turning, keep those plugs out and let us know

 

[96spxpos]

and yes, it may not be the motor, could be the driveshaft and/or pump, regardless of whether you changed the pump oil a year ago or not...at -20, being in Canada im sure you mean Celsius? which is even colder than -20 F ? if so, although I don't think its common, you may have had some moisture/ice where your driveshaft and carbon ring meet, causing it to be difficult to turn?

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Just curious if anyone knows the answer to this question.....Being that cold could the jugs, etc contract a little bit so it wouldn't allow the pistons to move. Yes, i know a car will be left out in way below zero temps at times and it will start (usually )

 

[Austrian Rotax]

I sprayed some fogging oil in the cylinders directly yesterday when I discovered the problem and it my engine is still stuck today. its only -10 degrees celsius now but is still seized. I will try some liquid wrench penetrating oil I think next. I think you have a point SDB but I dont believe the jugs could contract that much to cause this in -20, for me thats not that cold, when I used to live up north it would go down to -40 degrees celsuis, ski-doos would still turn over fine, although im no ski-doo expert. But who knows, maybe its a lot differant for these sea-doo engines? this is my first winter having a ski. If all else fails, is it worth pouring ATF into it? whether that damges it or not im not sure the composition of that stuff. I imagine my crank bearings and rods must be free of rust considering by the time the engine stalled out there was nice environmentally unfriendly blue gas cloud, I could barely see my neighbors porch lol.

 

[Strizzo]

i bet it's not seized, probably fogging oil doesn't have very good cold weather properties, its entirely possible the fogging oil is frozen or darn near there. Could also be the extreme cold contracting the cylinders not enough to lock up, like seadoobuddy said, but to make it too hard to turn by hand.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

I bet you anything its the pump if it ran when you put it away. 100%.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I would do almost nothing until you can get the block up to a realistic temp. And that temp needs to be high enough to un-freeze anything that may be an issue.

As noted, could be a stuck pump, fogging oil that is frozen if there was any water in the cylinders or the oil ect ect...

If ti still does not turn over, pull the pump and then see if it will turn over.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Another idea thinking outside the box. Could the starter have frozen so much that it won't move??????
or maybe have gone bad in the meantime???

I agree that you should warm it up some how or wait until spring to test it again.
I'm very interested in the solution to this issue. .....keep us posted please.

Now I assume that you removed the spark plugs before trying to turn it by hand, if not then you'll never be able to turn it over.

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

My first thought is you need to buy a new winter toy if your so anxious to play with the seadoo at -20. Wait for the thaw, anything that has happened has already done damage. But, I bet it's fine. Get inside and warm up my man!

 

[Austrian Rotax]

Yea, thats what I was thinking too, just making sure it couldnt be anything else, I filled it with now a mix of penetrating oil and fogging oil but I have a feeling water probly made it past the impeller shaft seals or something and seized the shaft or the impeller is stuck against wear ring maybe, I dont know really as I said before this is my first winter with a pwc. I will take out the Raves soon maybe and look at the walls when it warms up a few degrees. Im sure there was no water in the cylinders, I pushed a lot of the water out when I poured in the antifreeze I noticed water coming out the exhaust for a few seconds then the antifreeze flowed through. For the moment im going to leave it alone and not get frostbite working on it lol. I will keep you posted come spring.

Thanks

 

[96spxpos]

So did you take the plugs out and try or no?


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[Austrian Rotax]

Yea I tried but no success, its going to be warmer on sunday, so Ill probly pull the Raves and have a look out of curiosity, they probly need a cleaning anyway.

 

[AdamXP800]

I'm going to bet this is a pump issue



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[TheMachin0]

have you ever got wet hydro locked could be water in the counter balance I would think if you winterized it and fogged it properly its not a piston issue if you changed the pump oil don't think would be the problem either possibly the wear ring shrunk to much in the cold and is holding the impeller "freezing the pump is a trick for removing the wear ring so makes sense"

ONLY 5 MONTHS TO GO 4 IF YOUR BRAVE!!!!

 

[Austrian Rotax]

just thought I would update this thread, with above zero weather recently I went to turn the pto flywheel and now it turns nice and smooth even with the plugs in it turns easily by hand I guess it was a frozen pump or cylinders seized the pistons due to shrinkage, the cylindrs look good to me when I removed the RAVE. I guess this is normal for the temps I was experiencing back in feb. and jan. Last time I checked my pump oil it was pure black no evidence of water intrusion so still a mystery. . . . Thanks for all input though

 

[Coastiejoe]

Are you turning it by hand or with the starter?

 

[Austrian Rotax]

by hand, I haven't used the starter ever since last fall. in the winter I tried to turn it as hard as I could with rubber gloves on so my hands wouldn't slip on the pto and it wouldnt bugde a mm. Now it turns over with little effort at all by hand.

 

[Coastiejoe]

My question is, if you can turn it over by hand when the plugs are installed, I'm guessing you have a compression issue. Bad valves or holes in the piston?


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[Austrian Rotax]

well it has 135-140 compression using my cheap $25 comp. guage. not the greatest but its ok, im not super strong either lol everyone should be able to turn over there engine with plugs in if its a 2 stroke sea doo engine. I looked at the cylinder wallls and they still have some cross hatching left no rust I fogged it really well last fall

 

[dannyual767]

Sounds good to me, Austrian. I think you'll be good to go a little later this spring when it warms up.

 

[AdamXP800]

No, I don't believe you should be able to turn it by hand with the plugs in



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[XP 787]

I can turn my PTO with the plugs in but it takes some effort.

 

[kwiktsi]

My 787 has about 170 psi static compression and I turn it by hand by the pto as well. Not easily like it is free spinning or anything, but I can turn it.