Why recommended to send off rebuilds?

[330xi]

I just have a quick question.

Why does nearly everyone here recommend to send off your engine when it needs a rebuild? It's the only forum that I've found that the majority says to send it off..

Like for example, on Dootalk (where I am a very active member), they ALWAYS say to rebuild yourself. But here, it's the exact opposite.

What's everyone's reasoning? Sure you don't get a warranty, and you only have to pull the motor and put it back in. But where's the learning experience? Where's the fun in it? And lastly, it's a lot more expensive..

As a personal example: My sled. 2005 SkiDoo MXZ 600. I put in a bad batch of gas, and she blew a top end. I next-day'd parts, and within 6 hours I had properly rebuilt the motor. Has another 50 put on it since, and still runs 152/153 compression. Or I could send it off, and wait a month.

My point is this: yes, I may be a little more mechanically inclined than many, especially for my age (16), but rebuilding a Rotax 2 stroke is literally as easy as baking half a dozen cakes. And no, I'm not joking.

I don't want flame wars, I'm just curious as to why the opinion is so different here.

 

[AdamXP800]

No fault warranty

 

[AdamXP800]

We apparently have the Rotax rebuild master here! HA HA
Are you rebuilding these said engines bottom to top or just top end?

 

[Luv2Camp]

For me it was simple.... Cost of a rebuilt crank $225, cost of jugs bored and sleeved with pistons $300, RV brass gear $40, RV $25, seal kit $80 for a total of $671 with no warranty. Send it off the SES and have 2 year no fault warranty and total cost door to door $599.

 

[manolocross]

Jetski marine engines are in a much harsher environment (salt water, humidity) than a sled or dirt bike. A proper rebuild is not just bolting in new pistons. Everything else( bottom end) should be checked. Also a jetski engine is run a lot harder than a sled. I doubt your full throttle 95 percent of time on a sled. So it's easy to slap in a top end but when those $$$ on a top end last 10 min, that sux... Just my 2 pennies


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[- BiRkS_]

I've come from both sides of the fence. I own 3 rotax skidoo's. and 4 seadoo's (a little bit of an addiction?)

When it comes to engines, I like doing it once and right. UNLESS i had just rebuilt the engine, and toasted a piston due to a lean condition (cracked intake boot on PTO carb). I did a leak down to check crankcase for leaks, determined it was the intake, and went ahead and replaced just the one piston and tossed on a used jug b/c i had done everything else.

It also depends on the machine, Honestly if my top end went on my '91 GT, i would probably just replace the top end and run the crap out of it again. My more prized possessions (gsx, gtx) i would pull the engine and do it right. It all depends on its history. My issue in ontario is parts are very expensive and shops are brutal and have crappy service. I walked in one day to order bellows for a merc aplha one and ended up spending the day in the shop doing a re and re on a new package for them because they had no idea what they were doing! needless to say, i now have that customer coming to me for any work. Lately i've been getting my seadoo engines from a guy north of me who builds them for fun and gets the parts from the states. I can't budget my time and parts when i can get an engine from him done up for less. 3 engines so far and all running great.

 

[brian0516]

What's the point of having/enjoying a hobby if you can't have full faith in the most important part. Hobby or not your time has to be worth something. At your age I had nothing better to do than mess around with stuff. When life happens ie; kids, wife, 6 days a week at work. I would rather walk out to my ski, jump on and go.

 

[Mekanix]

I just have a quick question.

Rebuilding a Rotax 2 stroke is literally as easy as baking half a dozen cakes. And no, I'm not joking.

So you use cake pan's to hold parts too eh? :thumbsup:
They come in handy.

I can build an engine. Do I want to? meh... If I have to... is my point of view. And sometimes I really enjoy it If there is time.
Service manual is always there and parts are still available.

If I can remove, send away and get another one within a week with free shipping and warranty at cheaper than the cost of rebuilding parts without considering my time, Well its a no brainer...

But I'm in Canada. 1300$ for an engine from bombardier, + $500 shipping and only get a warranty if a dealer instals it AND another $1000 for that BS. Well I'm going to rebuild the daam thing and I'm going to replace the crank, bore the cylinders, replace the rotary valve and bearings and seals and gaskets etc and become an expert in that engine because I have to if I want it to last.

Its easier in the states to get an engine cheap with no fault warranty and free shipping. So in that case for the person just wanting to ride and not learn about the machine, its a better option.

There are people that have built and learned things on so many projects that they simply don't want to go through the whole thing when they don't have to. Especially when they just want to have fun with the machine and not be working on the machine.

I don't think its a question of mechanical ability or pride in building but rather convenience and cost are the larger factors in making the decision. And we are not getting any younger time is a valuable commodity

 

[jammin777]

in my earlier years ive rebuild several automotive engines because i loved doing it. now as an full time mechanic by trade i opt to buy a reman, why? a good warranty for one, it cost almost as much to do it my self by the time i buy all the parts plus all the running around to machines shops, not to mention the time it takes, as a married man ( honey do list) with a full time job along with being older and lazy, i simply don't have the time or want to make the time. i am one that sent my seadoo engine out for rebuild. the 2 year no fault warranty is huge! my motto is less work and more play! wishful thinking.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

We rebuild them ourselves. We have not sent out 1 motor. We do have the jugs bored by either full bore or lakes powersports. However some people do not have any experience in rebuilding a motor, nor do they have the tools. Most of the tools are inexpensive but do add up quick. Plus a rebuild of a 787 takes alot longer than 6 hrs start to finish if everything is done correctly.

Breaking down the motor is quick, but the cleaning process is what will take a while. Everything must be cleaned and inspected, then every hole must be tapped to get all the old locktite and corrosion out. Then when you finally get ready to reassmble, it all needs to be done correctly in order with the right torque specs, you need to do a squish gap test, and then the motor should be leak tested. So this is definately a whole day event if not 2. The raves should be serviced while all that is taking place, the motor needs to be timed. None of it is hard but if you do not have the knowledge or someone who does helping you it is easier just to send it out.

 

[Jetskigoodies]

Double post

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Cost vs. warranty vs. stuff going wrong.

$900 for a 2 year no fault vs $400 for a crank + labor + time + etc... just not worth it.

I've had friends rebuild engines just to miss one part, or have the crank go within the first tank or two.

Even on my own I've pulled engines, rebuilt, and worked fine for a few tanks, then... boom.. gotta do it all over again!

Maybe I missed something, maybe it was part failure, who knows... it's just easier for me to send mine out.

No fault means no fault... sure it's still time and a hassle, but no cost (shipping maybe).

 

[330xi]

I definitely understand the no fault warranty. I've done a couple full rebuilds; once you get a rhythm down and have all of the tools it goes by pretty quickly. And I doubt I'm doing it wrong because I rebuilt my friend's 787 and since he's put on upwards of 150hrs.

But to go about whoever said sleds don't run wide open most of the time.. If you're trail riding, then no. But off trail, it's just constant BRAAAP. I would think it's a hard argument saying sled motors "aren't abused like ski motors". Us offtrail guys beat them, hard.

 

[Spimothy Leary]

i'll chime in...

first of all not everybody recommends "send it off" however some of our more active posters do: so it sometimes seems that we lean that direction, but in general I don't think the group does. With that said these days the rebuild shops have come down on prices, have a proven product, and a solid no fault warranty.

In addition, many posters that post up. "this is my first ski and X is my issue what do I do now?" have already kind of stated in the first sentence that they are not quite ready to tackle a rebuild project, so a rebuild makes more sense then trying to walk them through a big project that might discourage and frustrate them, shorten their riding season and possibly end their infatuation with PWC ownership.

If somebody is mechanically inclined, has space and some tools, and plans on working on multiple ski's over a length of time, then yes it makes sense to do you own work most of the time. goodies is correct that it is quite time consuming to do it Right, cleaning and prepping can take more time than actual assembly.

I cringe sometimes when I know somebody is sending an engine off on a recommendation when IMO it might just be a top end issue or something else relatively minor, if its going to SES i'm 'ok" with it because they are getting their own engine back, but if it goes to SBT I think it can be a waste.

I have sent a couple off to SBT in the past 2 years but I can say that the core I sent off was pretty much shot, filthy cases, rusted crank, stuck CB, cylinders already bored once, bad head, really nothing that was "good" except the cases which probably still needed some serious time in the blast cabinet. When I send to them I generally will save any "good" parts i can (swap heads for example) and send them the assorted crap that was left over from something else or for example I'd buy a crap head from a member for $20 shipped, I have no intention of sending off parts that IMO could be bolted on to another ski.

I can also vouch for the "time" factor, when your young and have less responsibilities its easier to look at the project and think it makes sense to DIY and a couple of days work to save a couple hundred makes sense. When you get into your 40's priorities change, money can be much easier to come by than time.

 

[TheMachin0]

im with 330xi just to send a set of jugs to full bore for a grind and a set of pistons cost 600+ just did a top end on a friends rfi which is still cheaper than the machine shop 2hours away I built my motor last winter from 3 blown motors its a miss match of parts with 175psi and gets literally beat on 100% of the time its in the water the only time im nice to it is the pre start on the trailer. when loading I always get razzed by guys on the launch "why are you so hard on that thing aren't you afraid of blowing it up" my reply is always "built her my self so I no what I got and no how to use it"

don't let fear and common sense hold you back boys ther just parts if it wert for this forum I would still have just a pile of parts still

 

[Luv2Camp]

Someday, you will understand when out of your mouth comes, "Man I wish I was sixteen again" LOL!!! When I was your age, I tore into EVERYTHING. I also had a Corvette and would actually clean the underside once a week with it jacked up and sliding around on a creeper. Now being married for 20 years, one son your age and another right behind him, life gets CRAZY! When your life gets so busy, you start to weigh it all. Somethings I work on just to give me the satisfaction of doing it myself while other things I just do not have the time to do or it is just not worth the time lost in "life" and let someone else do it. Enjoy this time in your life! Blink a few times and you will be in my shoes. I know because it feels like just yesterday I was in yours!!!

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

the older I get, the more stuff works as I leave it alone lol.

 

[AdamXP800]

Having a family and many responsibilities is a huge factor in why a lot of us go the reman route. Most of us just don't have the time to meticulously go through a rebuild process and hope everything is right or a part doesn't fail. Going the reman route with the warranty just makes since. I don't have to worry about blowing an engine, I know I can have a new one on my door step in 3 days. Is SBT the highest quality? No certainly not, although I have had nothing but great experiences with their reman 787's. The convenience and piece of mind is sure worth a lot to me!

 

[Jetskigoodies]

im with 330xi just to send a set of jugs to full bore for a grind and a set of pistons cost 600+ just did a top end on a friends rfi

Full bore prices

951 top end $350
787 $300
717 $285

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Full bore prices

951 top end $350
787 $300
717 $285

yip.. full bore has FANTASTIC pricing IMO,,,, i have a hard time beating that with local pricing for a cyl bore ($100) and a WSM piston kit, and it saves me two trips to the machine shop.

circling back to the OP question.....

If a poster with less than 50 posts writes "I think the engine is shot, what should I do" and another poster with 300 writes "quick question about squish" they will generally get responses that are appropriate to the post. As a long time forum member, it doesn't take long to get a feel for the abilities of the poster just by the type of questions they ask and how they word them.