Trouble at the Lake

[pwgsx]

This was the first time taking the boat 2004 Speedster 200 out since we purchased it and didnt have a area to test drive it first so it is my own fault :facepalm:. Oil is fresh, new spark plugs- old ones looked good but changed them anyway before our outing......

Anyways it ran fine, but after running it for about 10-15 mins the port engine "check engine " came on. The rps were the same and we couldnt visually see anything wrong with the motor. I unplugged the DESS key and put it back on and the light went away. Noticed between 1000-3000rps the both engines were equal, however 4,000 rpms and up the port engine (the problem one) was 300-400 rpms lower than the other. The light came on 10 or so mins later again and removing the key cleared the light. Any ideas? I hope its a exhaust sensor and not a hard to read knock sensor error but I guess the dealer is the only way to find out? Top speed was only 40-42mph.

Next issue is it seems to have cavitation out of the hole. RPMs would be 5000 and the boat didnt get up and go like I would have thought but it would then hook up and go like a bullet. Top speed only hitting 40 mph with 4 adults, seemed slow to me. Wear rings are bad?

Lastly there was a lot of water or more than I would have thought in the hull. Sitting in the water I couldnt see anything leaking except a few drops from a thru hull cable and some around the bailer tube and more around the cable that moves the intake grate but we are talking little drops. I will seal those up with some 5200. The bilge would run for a min and remove all the water and after a 15 min ride there would be more again. There was no water splashes on the motors or around the drive shafts or any spray from perhaps a leak in a hose. Where are some other common places water enters while riding?

Thanks guys for any info that can help

 

[Dr Honda]

The warning light needs to have to codes pulled before we can say anything. On the 4-tec engines... there are WAY too many things that can trip that light to even guess.

The cavitation is probably from a bad/warn carbon seal. A bad wear ring wont' normally give you that feeling of "Hook-up", but the carbon seal will. ALSO... the warn seal will allow more water than normal into the boat.

 

[pwgsx]

Thanks for the reply Dr. H. I ordered the CanDoo system and it will be here wed or thurs. I really hope its a easy to reach sensor. Is there a list of codes that tell what they are anywhere?

As for the carbon seal, they both look ok but I will check again. The boat has 114hrs on it, I wouldn't think they would be bad but who knows. How hard is it to change one out?

 

[RFoster130]

Is your top speed going by the speedo? Mine only hits 40 on the speedo. When i checked it with GPS on my phone though im hitting 50-52. I also have the same issue with a lot of water being in the hull. I found it with about 300 gallons of water in it after sitting overnight docked. I found the auto feature on the bilge pump not working. I fixed that, but i still feel like its too much water getting in. Both my carbon seals look ok too. I havent had much time to look for other sources though. Ive only had the boat out 1 more time which was this past weekend. After being in the water 30 minutes the pump kicked on. Im wondering if we rae both having the same issue. Hopefully one of us can figure it out.

 

[pwgsx]

I am going to look at them this weekend again but they look ok. I know on my jet ski when the ring was bad I had water splatter everywhere. I don't have any around the seals on the boat. I found a small drip from a thru hull cable and a little around the cable that drops the intake grate ( unless that one is really gushing while driving) both hardly dripped when sitting. After riding though its filled at least up to the top of the blue grate on the bilge pump. Not sure if mine is cycling but I manually turn it on. My next plan is to keep the black engine liner out and have a buddy drive while I look inside.

 

[pwgsx]

Here is a pic of the carbon ring, it seems like it has even wear on both engines and is tight against the shaft.

Next I found the port side pump wear ring to be white and it seems to have more of gap between the ring and the impeller- maybe 2-3 business cards would fit. The starboard side has a black wear ring and the space is very tight- 1 card would fit. Both have no chips or nicks, impellers are in good shape. If I were to guess the white ring is new BUT I don't understand why there would be more of a gap. Would that cause more cavitation and lower rpms that the other pump that seems to be tight?


Starboard Pump Pics

 

[pwgsx]

Port side pics w/ white wear ring

 

[Coastiejoe]

Even if you do need wear rings, I'm with Doc.

Your description is a classic carbon seal issue.

I will go find a link and post it shortly. Exact issue, tried the wire tie trick and problem solved.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Read through this link.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?66001-2000-Gtx-cavitation-New-owner-please-help

 

[bigJake]

I ain't no expert on carbon rings but mine extend from the accordion boot a good 1/2" or so . Your's looks like it is practically worn down to nothing (1/8")? so you probably aren't getting much of a seal against the stainless ring. Drive shaft is awfully rusty.

 

[pwgsx]

Sweet, I will check the tension on it this weekend. The only thing that's strange is the top speed was only low 40's on the dream o meter and not even close to 50. The seal would explain the cavitation and possible water in the hull but what about the top speed? Unless the check engine light is a code that is retarding the engine? The CanDoo system is scheduled to come in today so that might shed some light.

 

[pwgsx]

I ain't no expert on carbon rings but mine extend from the accordion boot a good 1/2" or so . Your's looks like it is practically worn down to nothing (1/8")? so you probably aren't getting much of a seal against the stainless ring. Drive shaft is awfully rusty.

Yea my next question was to ask for a pic of a new or normal carbon ring installed? The boat only has 114 hrs on it, could they have been running it out of the water longer? What would cause it to wear out so fast. From what I see its at least even so the engine is aligned correctly. I have a 04 rxp and it is not that worn and it has 160hrs. I agree that shaft is rusty, kinda makes me wonder when the guy I bought it from said never been in salt water.

 

[chlarson23]

As for the carbon seal, they both look ok but I will check again. The boat has 114hrs on it, I wouldn't think they would be bad but who knows. How hard is it to change one out?[/QUOTE]

They're not that bad to swap. the manual is going to tell you that you need 3 specail tools to swap it out. I just leave the pump on and with a block of wood against the engine I pry the metal sleeve back to get the C clamp off the shaft, then i pull the pump and the shaft out of the rear. I thought it was going to be tough but overall it wasn't that bad.

 

[RFoster130]

Check your speed with gps. I use an app on my phone. My speedo is topping just above 40 but GPS is saying 50-52. Im gonna try to check my carbon seals again this weekend too. We both have a lot of the same symptoms.

 

[pwgsx]

yea post a pic when you do . I am going to try the zip tie trick and see if it fixes the cavitation and/or water issue.

My CanDoo system just came in the mail, I cant wait to see the issues it finds with my engine warning light.

 

[pwgsx]

Well here are my CanDoo findings: Port engine that had the check engine light had code p1202- Oil tank pressure switch implausible OR blow-by valve closed. This occurred 34 times. I then figured I would check the starboard engine just for kicks and found it had the same listed code but only occurred 14 times. Attached are pics from the fault code, sorry bad glare outside.

I also go the engine min and max readings as follows: Im concerned with the engine and exhaust temps on both although no temp light ever came on.

Starboard
intake pressure 2.9-15.81
engine temp 46.4-134.6
exhaust temp 44.6- 284
engine temp 42.8-217.4

Port (engine light)
2.76-15.66
46.4-136.4
44.6-246.2
44.6-244.4

 

[RFoster130]

Im not sure whats normal for these engines, but those temps seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

[pwgsx]

I wouldn't think they would be that far a part with the temps.

 

[RFoster130]

Yeah 30 degrees hotter on the 1 engine is a big difference. Is that by any chance the one with the odd antifreeze? Maybe its just a coolant issue.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

3M-5200 - Come on guys, that stuff hardens rock hard and is a permanent sealer, please don't use it on assemblies that might need to be disassembled in the future.

 

[pwgsx]

Yeah 30 degrees hotter on the 1 engine is a big difference. Is that by any chance the one with the odd antifreeze? Maybe its just a coolant issue.

No the port engine has the odd coolant and is the one with the engine light issue, the other was running fine and is hotter but exhaust temp is lower. I found a shop that will change both engines coolant and deal with the stripped drain plugs for $125- I will be letting them do that sometime this fall.

I got the engine fault code narrowed down to the TOPS valve OR oil pressure switch ( there are 2) on each engine. Found the switches for $20 each but the TOPS valve is $260. Now trying to figure out how to activate the TOPS valve with the CanDoo System.

 

[RFoster130]

No the port engine has the odd coolant and is the one with the engine light issue, the other was running fine and is hotter but exhaust temp is lower. I found a shop that will change both engines coolant and deal with the stripped drain plugs for $125- I will be letting them do that sometime this fall.

I got the engine fault code narrowed down to the TOPS valve OR oil pressure switch ( there are 2) on each engine. Found the switches for $20 each but the TOPS valve is $260. Now trying to figure out how to activate the TOPS valve with the CanDoo System.

There is another guy on here who has dealth with these engines a bunch and is very knowledgeable. Look up BMANN06

 

[pwgsx]

There is another guy on here who has dealth with these engines a bunch and is very knowledgeable. Look up BMANN06

Will do, did you ever find that wind deflector ?

 

[RFoster130]

Will do, did you ever find that wind deflector ?

Finding it isnt the problem..its still attached to the boat....45 minutes away in storage. As soon as I can get down there, ill take it off.

 

[pwgsx]

Sweet. Speaking of storage I need to find a place, they are so dam expensive but I cant stand it in my driveway. Well I got my multi pin cleaner in the mail today. Now I can clean the male and female ends of the small pins on the wire harness that have some corrosion on them. Hoping that will fix 1 of the problems.