(Thoughts?) Landed on Mobil 1 substitute for seadoo brand

[qtrmiler347]

If I’m going to pay synthetic oil prices, I didn’t want an oil (Seadoo brand) that has dino mixed in with it. I read that the supercharged versions need motorcycle clutch compatible oil for the supercharger clutches. So I read up and found my favorite brand (Mobil 1) has it. I found it at my local O’Riley auto parts store for $9.99 qt. It has the API service specs of SN *and* JASO MA2. These oils must meet two minimum requirements, and happy to have found this one does. Fully synthetic and less money. I think it’s better for the engine internals and cleaner running too. Thoughts?

 

[BGS]

see thread below:
RXT 260 SeaDoo OEM Synthetic v.s. Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic

 

[acooper]

Have to ask and am NOT being a smart ass either... in any way.
Worked on most every kind of common machine, boats, airplanes and professionally on cars and trucks for 5+ decades.
Why are you saying you do NOT want to use the factory recommended oil made specifically for the very HP machine in question?
Is this a specific oil engineering issue or just a feeling or notion? I have been asking this same question forever.
The exact oil that you need is probably sitting nearby (or can be shipped) and is exactly what you should use, right?
Anybody? Please send along your assessment of this VERY common quest to, for some reason, find "something else".

 

[skiasylum]

Have to ask and am NOT being a smart ass either... in any way.
Worked on most every kind of common machine, boats, airplanes and professionally on cars and trucks for 5+ decades.
Why are you saying you do NOT want to use the factory recommended oil made specifically for the very HP machine in question?
Is this a specific oil engineering issue or just a feeling or notion? I have been asking this same question forever.
The exact oil that you need is probably sitting nearby (or can be shipped) and is exactly what you should use, right?
Anybody? Please send along your assessment of this VERY common quest to, for some reason, find "something else".

X2

 

[qtrmiler347]

I prefer fully synthetic because synthetic mix is basically diluted synthetic with petroleum oil which having petroleum base has a tendency to break down and sludge more. Same reason why you might want to run a different impeller or ride plate from factory, to run or use better parts. Lastly, the price of the mixed Dino oil is higher than top quality Mobil 1 synthetic. I’ve read many tests (4 ball wear, etc) and seen many engines (auto) on the inside and they are always very clean inside. So here, I ran Mobil 1 with the proper specs as specified by the manufacturer. Anyway somebody makes Bombardier’s oil. There‘s no magic in their brand. If it was fully synthetic I would have considered using it but their charging more than a higher quality brand.

 

[Milehighguy303]

A problem with using lubricants and products different from the manufacturer is that the engine and all the components are designed to use a specific oil formulation, additives, etc. While there are likely products that are better on their own merits, they are not what your ski was designed to use. In many instances, it may not make a difference and is ok, but you do need to be cautious and there is much more to oil than face values - there are additives and detergents that can make a difference too. And just because a lubricant is better on its own merits, doesn’t mean that the OE lubricant is not going to provide as good protection.

I don’t have a supercharged ski, but I know others have mentioned in other forum posts there is a certain amount of oil viscosity or resistance that the supercharger needs - which I don’t totally understand those demands. The molecular structure of synthetic lubricants are ideal to for reducing friction. But if the engine is designed for a certain amount of needed pressure or resistance, you could create an undesirable condition and then you have diagnosis challenges because you have introduced a new variable into the mix.

Many of us have automotive backgrounds, and mine is Ford. The 6.0L diesel engine was problematic for a number of reasons, but many fleet owners were using gourmet synthetic oil, thinking they were doing themselves a favor. The injectors use oil pressure to fire, and to make a long story short, the lesser expensive Motorcraft oil that the engine and all components were designed to use provided the best and most reliable performance. Many issues were resolved with just using Motorcraft oil. Fewer driveability issues, better reliability, and it was the additive package, detergents, and semi synthetic oil that was more reliable for that particular engine. Just an example of a better oil isn’t really always better. I don’t stray from manufacturer recommended lubricants.

 

[qtrmiler347]

A problem with using lubricants and products different from the manufacturer is that the engine and all the components are designed to use a specific oil formulation, additives, etc. While there are likely products that are better on their own merits, they are not what your ski was designed to use. In many instances, it may not make a difference and is ok, but you do need to be cautious and there is much more to oil than face values - there are additives and detergents that can make a difference too. And just because a lubricant is better on its own merits, doesn’t mean that the OE lubricant is not going to provide as good protection.

I don’t have a supercharged ski, but I know others have mentioned in other forum posts there is a certain amount of oil viscosity or resistance that the supercharger needs - which I don’t totally understand those demands. The molecular structure of synthetic lubricants are ideal to for reducing friction. But if the engine is designed for a certain amount of needed pressure or resistance, you could create an undesirable condition and then you have diagnosis challenges because you have introduced a new variable into the mix.

Many of us have automotive backgrounds, and mine is Ford. The 6.0L diesel engine was problematic for a number of reasons, but many fleet owners were using gourmet synthetic oil, thinking they were doing themselves a favor. The injectors use oil pressure to fire, and to make a long story short, the lesser expensive Motorcraft oil that the engine and all components were designed to use provided the best and most reliable performance. Many issues were resolved with just using Motorcraft oil. Fewer driveability issues, better reliability, and it was the additive package, detergents, and semi synthetic oil that was more reliable for that particular engine. Just an example of a better oil isn’t really always better. I don’t stray from manufacturer recommended lubricants.

Acknowledged and that’s why I made sure to follow all the API service requirements (all were met) and include wet clutch compatible. As far as anything else, these engines aren’t in need of anything different than any other. I like the cleanliness and protection offered with Mobil 1, and I don’t believe for the engine itself there are any benefits or requirements on additives or lubrication that running a petroleum mixed semi-senthetic oil would be better. It sounds like the main concern is not having an overly “slippery” oil for the supercharger clutch which also seems to have been met. But I do appreciate your response.

 

[ski-d00]

What's the worst that can happen? Mobil 1 full synthetic will increase your supercharger clutch slip which will lead to lower speeds and grenade your supercharger? No biggie, I say disregard what the BRP engineers designed the high strung engine for and you use what you think is best.

 

[qtrmiler347]

What's the worst that can happen? Mobil 1 full synthetic will increase your supercharger clutch slip which will lead to lower speeds and grenade your supercharger? No biggie, I say disregard what the BRP engineers designed the high strung engine for and you use what you think is best.

No need to be a smart ass to say your opinion. I followed the “engineers” instructions to the tee by making sure the oil met ALL specs. You think they built a clutch that will slip with Mobil 1 that’s fine. I wanted full synthetic. Is the oil in the BRP the reason the superchargers works properly? I don't think there is magic inside a bottle of BRP (Lubetech or Castrol) bottle of semi-synthetic.

 

[ski-d00]

It's not magic, it's the maximum amount of friction modifiers that they tested that the supercharger could handle. For years and years, BRP said to use standard mineral oil 10W-40 in the sc machined (they still say this is acceptable if the xps isn't available) and the full synthetic xps for NA skis.
Directly from the manual...

NOTICE NEVER use synthetic oil.
This would impair the proper operation
of the supercharger clutch.
Do not add any additives to the recommended
oil. Mineral oils for API
service classificationSMcontain additives
(friction modifiers) that may
cause inappropriate slippage of the
supercharger and eventually lead to
premature wear.

I've fixed a lot of 4tecs of Mobil 1 fans after their sc was in pieces.

 

[qtrmiler347]

It's not magic, it's the maximum amount of friction modifiers that they tested that the supercharger could handle. For years and years, BRP said to use standard mineral oil 10W-40 in the sc machined (they still say this is acceptable if the xps isn't available) and the full synthetic xps for NA skis.
Directly from the manual...

NOTICE NEVER use synthetic oil.
This would impair the proper operation
of the supercharger clutch.
Do not add any additives to the recommended
oil. Mineral oils for API
service classificationSMcontain additives
(friction modifiers) that may
cause inappropriate slippage of the
supercharger and eventually lead to
premature wear.

I've fixed a lot of 4tecs of Mobil 1 fans after their sc was in pieces.

I hunted around and found Rotella fully synthetic has been run by a lot of people. The owners manual doesn’t caution about using fully synthetic, it specifies wet clutch compatible with two additional specs which all have to be met. Have you fixed a lot superchargers even when they used the motorcycle wet clutch specific Mobil 1?

 

[ski-d00]

I copied that right out of a 2012 manual so it's there. They do reference wet clutch compatible as well but still caution not to use full synthetic. Oils with moly in them like Mobil 1 are just too slippery imo. I rebuild a supercharger every week in the summer and have rebuilt them from people using Mobil 1. I don't get into the details about which type of Mobil 1.
When they say wet clutch applications it really is quite different than the clutch type that BRP uses that is a true metal on metal system that relies on only pressure and the lubricant between two pieces of small diameter metal. Most motorcycle clutches are large clutch packs with multiple discs with pads similar to brake pads that they have to prevent glazing so not really the same thing and have different slip rates that are controlled way better than the BRP metal on metal.
This is all just my opinion so feel free to do what you want and I don't want to argue the science of oils in the great oil debate but I really don't understand why people don't use what the manufacturer recommends. Some people want to save a few bucks after they spend $10k on a ski which makes no sense to me. Some people have an alliance to whatever brand because it has worked well in their car which these are not cars. For some vehicles it makes little difference on which oil to use but in my experience it does make a difference on sc seadoos.

 

[skiasylum]

Thats copied from the Seadoo 2017 RXT-X Operators Manual (the ops advertised ski) so they have changed the description of substitute oils sometime after 2012 and before 2017. A 10W/40 motorcycle oil compatible with wet clutches and meeting both requirements for API and JASO. So Mobile 1 for wet clutches motorcycle oil is probably a good substitute . Although if you're in warranty and your supercharger blows up BRP could possibly deny your claim by using a substitute oil if BRP XPS was available to you.