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soccerdad

soccerdad

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Based on some good input from the meet and greet forum, I am targeting a '96 or '97 GTX or perhaps GTI ski as my first buy. As background, I am looking for a family friendly ski (or two) that can pull a tube and just cruise around. I am looking for a project so it does not have to be in great condition. I have a lot of experience with two strokes. I have rebuilt many 2 stroke dirt bikes, down to splitting the transmission cases, etc. I have done limited work on a Rotax twin. I am also very good with fiberglass. Nothing mechanical scares me and I have a pretty good shop in my garage.

Since I am new in PWC land, I am not sure what to look for and more specifically what not to look for. I want stuff that I can fix, but don't want to get a ski with the dreaded "x" failure that means tons of $$$. Like, can you bore these things if the cylinders are in bad shape, can they be sleeved, or is it buy a new cylinder time? How can you tell if the jet system is OK?

Any helpful hints would be great. My long term plan is to get a ski or two that needs a little love, fix it up, use it for a season, then maybe sell it for a little profit and move up to a better ski. Or we may find these fit our needs.

Finally, what is a good price point for a ski that needs some love?

Thanks in advance!
 
Its a 89 or 90 SP and a 90 or 91 GT. Skip those...they are beat, old, and the trailer doesnt even have winches.

Hold out for that 96-97 GTX.
 
Definitely pass on those.

Here in Florida, a watercraft without a title is pretty much a parts boat. It is very, very difficult to obtain a title if you don't get one from the seller. Many craigslist hacks will try to say that it's easy to get a title. If it was so easy, then why don't they get a title before they sell it?

You're in NC so things may be different there. I just want you to be aware of this because people get bit by the no title thing all the time.
 
Yeah well I just bought what would be your perfect ski. $400 for A 99 gti with a blown 720 and nice trailer. But the rest of the ski is really nice...there are good deals out there you just gotta be patient
 
Thanks, I figured that those were not for me but threw them in just in case. Anyway, besides title, what do I look out for?
 
If your serious about having reliable fun on a seadoo you have to be willing to invest $2000 ish into the ski, whether it is on purchase price or purchase price plus repairs. This is just my opinion.

Most skis that you can pick up on craiglist for cheap will need $4-500 in repair/ preventative maintenance so you can be comfortable taking out on the lake.

This will normally include
fuel lines
oil lines
oil filter
fuel filter/strainer
carbs or carb rebuild
carbon seal
fuel gauge/float
spark plugs
rave valve kits
exhaust gaskets
possibly some electrical
battery
jet pump maintenance (change oil, O ring sealent)

The above will chew threw $400 or close to it. Now over and above there can be some unforeseen issues that you can find and get the rest of the way to the $2000 mark with your purchase price

Pump bearings/rebuild
MPEM not functioning
low compression-need rebuild
cosmetic repairs you want to do eg seat, hydro turf, gauges, gelcoat etc
Rave valves/water valve worn out
starter
coil
magneto
etc

I have found that a $1500 ski usually needs $400-500 investment and a $500 ski needs a $1000 to $1500 investment to get it into a condition that I am comfortable sending my family out on to ride. These ones usually need a rebuild or a couple of major components such as MPEM and rebuilt motor. To make money on these old skis is tough but can be done, there are a few on this forum that I think do a good job of it.

I think your on the right track looking for a mid 90's GTX for your application, but if you want to get on the water for $1000 with a good reliable ski it will be tough to do but not impossible.
 
soccerdad said:
Since I am new in PWC land, I am not sure what to look for and more specifically what not to look for. I want stuff that I can fix, but don't want to get a ski with the dreaded "x" failure that means tons of $$$. Like, can you bore these things if the cylinders are in bad shape, can they be sleeved, or is it buy a new cylinder time? How can you tell if the jet system is OK?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

I think most of your questions were answered except for this....
yes, you can bore them, in a generic sense you just buy .5 over pistons in a kit, take cyl's to shop for boring with the right clearance, and re install, your standard "top end rebuild" is quite common. if the cyl's have already been over-bored, for most engines like the 717 or 787, stock cyl's that can be bored out can be purchased used, and are cheap and easy to come by.

its rare to to re-sleeve since stock replacements are pretty easy to find, if you can find the right shop a simple bore job usually runs about $90-$120 for two holes, I have a local shop that does it for $90 and I give him a hondo and tell him to keep the change.

of course the anal ones here recommend crank rebuild/replace as well, and I agree with them, but I can name you 10 guys that did a quicky top end on a questionable crank that lasted well over 100+ hours trouble free. (I can also list a couple that didn't do the crank and it lasted somewhere between 45 minutes - maybe 3 weekends) its kind of a case by case basis, hours on the crank, condition of the bearings, and pure dumb luck.

manolocross said:
What is the "DREADED X FAILURE"???? Just curious......
Click to expand...

I think "X" = insert problem here


as far as fixer uppers/flip to upgrade, well, that all depends on patience, due diligence, pure luck with the purchase of that particular project, so it could go either way, but these days, IMO the two stroke market is becoming a buyers market and i'm seeing selling prices continuing to drop on ski's....

this is to your advantage as a buyer, but will come back to bite you when its time to sell, but my advice is to do what I did (and many members here)

start out cheap and under budget, running or not... lean on friends/forums/mechanics for help, ask questions, and try out the sport on the cheap before you decide if you really like it. PWC's are like hot tubs and pool tables, so cool the first 90 days then never get used again.... so make sure you're really into the sport before you start dropping serious coin.

I started out borrowing my brother's ski, then bought a $1000 old yamaha, upgraded to a $1200 seadoo, and just kept upgrading , rode them almost every weekend and beat the piss out of them, 5 years later I have $8K invested in two skis that I wouldn't sell for 10K, but it was 3 years before I even considered dropping a months wages on a toy. (i'm quite the cheap ass and I have a wife that kept me from getting carried away) (thanks honey !)
 
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manolocross said:
What is the "DREADED X FAILURE"???? Just curious......
Click to expand...

It is a hypothetical problem. It was just my way of trying to find out what would be a major problem that would cost big bucks to fix. I am not sure if anything like this exists on these, but since I am new, I am looking for a way to determine basic repairs vs major repairs. Low compression or a seized motor is easy to spot, but not sure what other problems with the jet or other parts are less visible. The majors don't bother me, as long as I can spot them and factor that into the price.
 
There isnt really a dreaded problem...we have so much knowledge here (and used parts!) that nothing is a killer. Some MPEMs are worth more than others (97 XP, 97 GSX), but otherwise nothing that cant be fixed.

Its all about going thru them with a fine tooth comb, and spotting shotty repairs. Usually if you spot one, theres a few more that you dont see. Cut and spliced wiring, holes poked in wiring from test probes, steel hardware instead of stainless....etc.
 
I know people out there don't have this problem, but if I were you, I would stay away from anything with exhaust valves (787 or 951 engine). I've had nothing but trouble with these. It costs at least $200 to replace all the components and I've had them just start leaking again mid-season. I've personally seen and heard of these valves breaking and falling into the motor causing all sorts of damage. I own two 787 equipped vehicles and the power valves always ends up being an issue. I rode a GTI with a 720 and was very impressed with the power. It's a lighter and slightly more fuel efficient engine and is way less trouble than it's bigger exhaust valve plagued cousins.
 
my opinion 720 is the better for a first ski there simple my first was a 720 and I loved it but like me you will eventually crave more power but by then you will have a much better handle on how to maintain a beast
 
This is just an awesome forum! The above posts have a lot of great and useful information in them. I will try to be patient and hold out for the right one(s). To be clear, I am not looking at this as a quick flip money making thing. I see the point with older two-stokes. I would expect them to continue to drop in value. I am a cheap ass as well with a wife that watches over the toys. But I am very fortunate to have the background to rehab stuff like this. That, coupled with all or your wisdom should make this a fun project. And a fun time on the lakes. Now back to checking on craiglist...
 
I believe in the first thread that you posted I recommended a 96 or later GTI, and I standby that recommendation. This ski has a 717 which in my opinion is the most reliable 2-stroke engine that SeaDoo has used and at 85HP has a pretty good power to weight ratio. I particularly like the 96GTI because I like the hull design better than the later model GTI's, but that's just my personal opinion. I think this would make a great starter ski, the ski is simply a pleasure to ride, it goes where you point it, and is an elongated X4 hull design so it will also jump and turn pretty well. 96GTI's are also pretty plentiful in the used market, at least in our area.

With all that being said I have a 96GTI but I also own an 95XP800 and a 96GSX which have the 787 engine, and I also believe that the extra maintenance for a 787 is well worth it, and personally have had few problems with either ski. I think it's well worth the power gain, 110hp ves. 85hp. But for a first ski the 717 is the way to go.

Lou
 
CReynoldsMIZ said:
Yes Idoseadoo you are right. You are the only person who doesn't like them....
Click to expand...

agree with CR, the raves are not an issue IMO. seems like you overpaid @200 as well, must have bought new, i've personally sold several decent used sets in the $40 range, but I have seen them in the $40 each range.

agree with the post above that 720 is the workhorse of the family for sure, reasonably bulletproof, but I think the 787 offers enough extra power to compensate for a little less reliability compared to the 720, both are excellent engines with parts a-plenty.
 
Spimothy Leary said:
agree with CR, the raves are not an issue IMO. seems like you overpaid @200 as well, must have bought new, i've personally sold several decent used sets in the $40 range, but I have seen them in the $40 each range.

agree with the post above that 720 is the workhorse of the family for sure, reasonably bulletproof, but I think the 787 offers enough extra power to compensate for a little less reliability compared to the 720, both are excellent engines with parts a-plenty.
Click to expand...

After having tried some used sets of RAVEs that continued to leak and in one case, melt the plastic piston, I ended up going with brand new parts. $200 per pair. Not cheap but they don't leak oil and no more plastic piston melting! One pair was aftermarket and the other pair I scored on ebay was genuine Sea Doo new old stock :thumbsup: !
 
go ahead Lou, ya know you want it. LOL! very clean indeed! offer them 12 for it. exactly what i'm wanting for my wife.
 
While I do agree the Raves are an "issue" on the 787s, $200 isnt all that much. I have really yet to see the issue on the RFIs/951s...its really just the 787s.

The problem is the bushing inside the housing wears out, allowing too much heat to hit the rave piston and melt it. When its wore out, the blade vibrates against the cylinder and yes in some cases, the Rave breaks and falls in.


Even worse...Seadoo discontinued those parts so were stuck using SBT crap. Someone should source out some bushings and refurbish the housings with a tighter tolerance bushing.

If you want to base your opinions on that kind of stuff...you might as well just buy a 580 motor ski.

In my opinion....the more HP you make, the more issues you will have. Esp with the 2 stroke seadoos. The more HP you make, the more lateral force the crank/bearings see. Thats why the 580s seem to last forever...the bearings can be wore out but there isnt much side forces to make it tear itself apart. Im willing to deal with a little less lifespan on a 787 in favor of the Rave hit. Im not a fan of the 951s, mostly bc every one Ive parted out has a hole in the cases.
 
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Minnetonka4me said:
While I do agree the Raves are an "issue" on the 787s, $200 isnt all that much. I have really yet to see the issue on the RFIs/951s...its really just the 787s.

The problem is the bushing inside the housing wears out, allowing too much heat to hit the rave piston and melt it. When its wore out, the blade vibrates against the cylinder and yes in some cases, the Rave breaks and falls in.


Even worse...Seadoo discontinued those parts so were stuck using SBT crap. Someone should source out some bushings and refurbish the housings with a tighter tolerance bushing.

If you want to base your opinions on that kind of stuff...you might as well just buy a 580 motor ski.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the actual Cylinder Jug wears out? That's what I was afraid of... I get these new rave assemblies and a short time later, I'm seeing melted pistons, oil everywhere and have NO performance. And it just takes one RAVE to be messed up to kill your performance... Is there a way to even measure this bushing that you're talking about? Can we drill something out and place a replaceable wear item in there or something? I really want it to just work, the X4 is worth all the trouble. One of the best jet skis of all time IMO!
 
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