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Terrible vacation with my doo

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i finally took the time to pull the fuel injector rail and checked for any injector leaks. i had to zip tie the injectors to the rail so they wouldn't pop off the rail under pressure, ask me how i know:) plugged the dess key a few times to activate the pump in the course of 15 min and not a single drop! sooo does that eliminate fuel problems for fouled plugs? it seems like it to me, i know of the possibility of incorrect rotory timing and clearance but have double checked that and is spot on. so to me is on to spark maybe too weak while trying to start in the water? it starts great on the trailer.
again, once started it runs fine.
if it wasn't for the plugs fuel fouling i would think of possibilities of low fuel pump pressure and would proceed further testing at the lake, but at this point i rule out fuel issues and on to electrical. or am i missing something? plus like i said, it runs fine on the lake once it starts. i guess the next step is to run it with the candoo hooked up, recheck for any fault codes
 
Is it idling & running perfect otherwise? I thought you said it was loading up at idle. But maybe you have that corrected with your TPS adjustments & it was an earlier issue that is now resolved.

Do your gages read RPMS' during cranking? Maybe a weak starter & its not spinning over fast enough in the water? What is is supposed to spin over at, 400 RPM's? HHHhmmmmm.
 
once it starts if it starts it idle and runs fine. yes the rpm gauge works during cranking and cranks at around 600 rpm range. seems that is the number i saw while cranking anyways.
it seems to spin about the same speed on trailer or water. this is so puzzling.
hmmm dont recall saying it loaded up at idle but i remember someone saying awhile back the black soot from the exhaust is from idling around. not too concerned with the soot as my 97 gsx i once had did that as well with only 40 hrs on it
 
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Yeah, black soot on plugs could be excess fuel or oil. The plug electrodes heat up as the engine runs (heat range of plug) and should run hot enough to become self-cleaning so as not to foul.

I guess if you sit there and idle the plug electrodes may cool off and turn black.

Squirt, squeeze, bang, fart - They're all the same.

Unusual spooge on your transom is likely from running too rich.

At the risk of mentioning the 951, mine must've had some nasty stuff in the exhaust b/c for the first 1/2 season after switching from TCW3 to XPS and adjusting/repairing everything after I bought it, the transom was always stained with spooge but this stopped happening eventually and there's barely any soot on the transom now.
 
I would reset your tps again, clear all faults, and set your out of water idle on the hose a little higher to 2800-2900ish. That's what I did and helped a lot. Personally I think your idle is to low. Your injectors seem correct since they do not leak. There should be 2 clips holding them to the rail with O-rings, unsure why you need a zip tie. You should get 57-60 psi I believe.
 
I'm gonna go ahead and ask a stupid question, are you running BR8 plugs? I'm sure you are, but this thread is so long now I didn't read back through....
 
dkasht said:
I would reset your tps again, clear all faults, and set your out of water idle on the hose a little higher to 2800-2900ish. That's what I did and helped a lot. Personally I think your idle is to low. Your injectors seem correct since they do not leak. There should be 2 clips holding them to the rail with O-rings, unsure why you need a zip tie. You should get 57-60 psi I believe.
Click to expand...
it idles perfectly at 1600 rpm on the water. there are no clips to hold the injectors to the rail the rail has 2 bolts that hold it all together to the cyl /block
 
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How about the water box control valve and associated plumbing, is the water being injected to the cone pipe plumbed from the correct source?

I guess if the exhaust tune was messed up the engine wouldn't breath correctly at low RPM's? But on the other hans if that was the case I'd also think the high end would lack seriously as well.

So currently I'm in the TPS camp, except both the in water and trailer idle speed also TPS alignment are all within spec?
 
yes tps is in spec reset to zero throttle fully closes as i made absolutely sure of that. in the candoo tps setting page after reset it shows 4.3 which is what the guys at candoo suggest, then go to engine monitor page it shows zero. after upping the idle to 1600 rpm in water 2350 on trailer the tps show 9.3. also like i said i replaced the tps and reset it and still have the starting issue. this ski is kicking my butt. so now that i did the injector drip test for 15 min without a single drop, im now blaming spark. lol! going to buy a adjustable spark tester and i hope it shows bad so i can get on with my life:)

oh and i took apart the water control valve apart last winter and inspected and shows good and made sure the plumbing is correct.
 
what about setting the TPS to the edge of limits each way to see what changes? Might be worth a shot if you can do it & test at the same location? local & quiet dock somewhere?

when I had my 97 XP, the restarts where terrible. I ended up adjusting my low speeds way behind spec to get it right. Ran fantastic after I trying something not in the book.

I know this was a cab'd ski & not your situation but I'd be trying anything at this point. you just never know.
 
This ski is kicking my butt too! :( Two ignition coils in this one. What other parameters can be changed by using candoo, spark timing I guess, but any others?

Thinking about what might make the injector pulse longer than optimum (too rich), if the MPEM thought the engine was super cold or if the intake manifold pressure sensor feedback was off.

There isn't a vacuum leak at the manifold pressure sensor, is there?
Sure the air temp and water temp sensors aren't cross-connected by accident?
No need to answer if you already checked this stuff.

Thinking out loud again....
Might get a better cold start by opening up the plug gap if the fuel is wetting the plugs and bridging the gap. Is there any kind of injector deflector that keeps the injected fluid from spraying onto the plug gap?

Sure the plugs are wet with fuel, it might be water somehow?

Ad yeah, definitely check for spark b/c if there isn't any then it dang sure won't fire. Common ground back there for both ignition coils. :)
 
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So what about the timing? Has it been checked? Maybe the timing is too retarded. Not sure how you can adjust it tho. I don't see anything in the candoo pages & I would assume the CPS is non adjustable when installed?

EDIT: it would appear its adjustable per the manual. Just not shown in the candoo pages. maybe it wasn't adjustable back in 1998 as the screen shots suggest? worth investigating its current settings.
 
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from what I've read in the candoo forum, the timing is not adjustable using a candoo or budds system. i believe it is for the di's and 4 tecs but not the rfi.
for the rfi the candoo resets the tps, reads code faults. i plan on hooking the ski to the candoo and run it on the hose for a min or 2 to see what codes it may bring up. i will say that the candoo can retrieve occurred codes while not running and one time a code was mag and pto injector shorted to ground. what does that mean?? but i clear the codes and ran it for 10 seconds and showed no codes. maybe i need to run it a little longer? so that is my plan this weekend.
[MENTION=2932]sportster[/MENTION], it was kinda hard starting when cold on the water but really hard and almost impossible when warm or hot.
tell me what you think, would a coil act up if failing when hot like resistance values changing when cold to hot? thinking about it after i replaced the tps sensor and took it at the lake at 9:30 pm and cooler outside, it started easily several times. the next day around 1 pm when it was hot outside it was hard starting and after running it making it hotter it would not start at all? see where i'm getting at? am i right that a failing coil could act up more when hot?
on the rfi's the injector is mounted on the side of the cylinders mid way down.
the weird thing is, back to the maiden voyage, it started easily the 1st 2 outings without fail. it has gotten progressively worse as time gone by since my camping trip in july just before i fixed my rave issue.
 
Sportster-2001-951C-Stock said:
Thinking about what might make the injector pulse longer than optimum (too rich), if the MPEM thought the engine was super cold or if the intake manifold pressure sensor feedback was off.

There isn't a vacuum leak at the manifold pressure sensor, is there?
Click to expand...
the air pressure sensor is something i'm going to investigate. it is mounted on the bottom of the air box. dennis at candoo says if water or moisture gets in it, it's toast as i read in someones thread. but if bad it should throw a code and be seen on the candoo. i haven't thought of the possibility of vac leak at the air pressure sensor. can that be an issue to be concerned about when mounted on the air box?
 
jammin777 said:
from what I've read in the candoo forum, the timing is not adjustable using a candoo or budds system. i believe it is for the di's and 4 tecs but not the rfi.
for the rfi the candoo resets the tps, reads code faults. i plan on hooking the ski to the candoo and run it on the hose for a min or 2 to see what codes it may bring up. i will say that the candoo can retrieve occurred codes while not running and one time a code was mag and pto injector shorted to ground. what does that mean?? but i clear the codes and ran it for 10 seconds and showed no codes. maybe i need to run it a little longer? so that is my plan this weekend.
[MENTION=2932]sportster[/MENTION], it was kinda hard starting when cold on the water but really hard and almost impossible when warm or hot.
tell me what you think, would a coil act up if failing when hot like resistance values changing when cold to hot? thinking about it after i replaced the tps sensor and took it at the lake at 9:30 pm and cooler outside, it started easily several times. the next day around 1 pm when it was hot outside it was hard starting and after running it making it hotter it would not start at all? see where i'm getting at? am i right that a failing coil could act up more when hot?
on the rfi's the injector is mounted on the side of the cylinders mid way down.
the weird thing is, back to the maiden voyage, it started easily the 1st 2 outings without fail. it has gotten progressively worse as time gone by since my camping trip in july just before i fixed my rave issue.
Click to expand...



The candoo cannot do timing. However the Bosch module can do iginition timing either way a few degrees. I questioned Candoo people on this once and it seemed nill. Pages 08-02-13 and 08-02-14 in manual
 
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jammin777 said:
am i right that a failing coil could act up more when hot?
on the rfi's the injector is mounted on the side of the cylinders mid way down.
the weird thing is, back to the maiden voyage, it started easily the 1st 2 outings without fail. it has gotten progressively worse as time gone by since my camping trip in july just before i fixed my rave issue.
Click to expand...

Yes, typically heat does expose a weak coil and over time they get weaker and weaker. So it is consistent except there are two coils and it's doubtful in my pea brain both are bad.

I would disable the carbon seal retainer and test run on the hose.

If the sensor calibration, any sensor, is off by just enough it can run like crap and still never throw a code (from my indirect experience with many FI systems, not direct experience with RFI). The codes are obvious once the sensor is completely FUBAR, such as disconnected.

Your pressure and temp sensor work in conjunction with the TPS sensor to help the MPEM to deliver the optimum air/fuel ratio.

One method to finding a damaged sensor can be to disconnect the sensor and the PCM will throw a code while running (better) off a default value (might default to a limp mode). For instance, a MAF sensor is good for measuring flow at wide throttle settings and the redundant sensor is the manifold pressure sensor that is useful at all throttle settings but not as accurate at high throttle settings.

If by unplugging the MAF sensor fixes idle stumbles and poor drivability then the MAF sensor is a likely problem.

So, it's important to verify a sensor output is normal under operating conditions. For example, if your temp sensor says 70*F before startup and after reaching normal operating temp then reads -20*F that sensor circuit is not working properly. The PCM S/W might average two sensors and thus doesn't know which sensor is at fault thus runs like poo due to funky mixture yet no fault code.

This is an example of "software sucks".
 
I am trying to remember if the ski starts good on the first cold start of the day, in the water? memory is failing.........

I like the thought of fuel mixture issues when warm. like you mention, maybe the temp sensor/mpem is seeing the engine as a cold start when its already warmed up? Pretty sure candoo shows engine temp.

Does this ski use a water pump restrictor washer in the cooling system? If so, could it be missing?

could be the ski is getting more fuel than it should have before shut down, then as it sits, excessive vapors in the engine & then too much fuel from the ejectors again at start up?
 
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