Terrible vacation with my doo

[jammin777]

well when i took the ski to that water in the evening when cooler outside it started up several times but the next day when hot outside harder starts and the hotter it got the harder or impossible start was more like it. the first 2 time i took her out at the beginning of the season it started just fine without fail. not sure of a restricter on the cooling lines but i know there are some calibrated fittings. which i'm sure i got right when assembling. i have to search the repair manual. got to head back to work i ck in later. lol!

 

[dkasht]

well when i took the ski to that water in the evening when cooler outside it started up several times but the next day when hot outside harder starts and the hotter it got the harder or impossible start was more like it. the first 2 time i took her out at the beginning of the season it started just fine without fail. not sure of a restricter on the cooling lines but i know there are some calibrated fittings. which i'm sure i got right when assembling. i have to search the repair manual. got to head back to work i ck in later. lol!

That's interesting. It gets harder to start when its hot out. Vapor lock maybe? Maybe someone will chime in.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

interesting indeed... these things should have an intake temperature sensor built into the MAF sensor (right?) air temp shouldn't affect how it runs. i know on my old eclipse, you could hook an ohm-meter to it and see if the values are reading correctly for the air temp. if that sensor is dead, it could be giving too much fuel.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yeah, elimination of vapor lock is one benefit of fuel injection, the high pressure practically eliminates this possibility entirely.

 

[jammin777]

ok so i am ohm testing my coil as per manual it should be 0.41 + - 0.05 ohm. if out of spec replace coil.
so here's where i get confused. on my innova meter which has auto range. it fluctuates 00.6 to 01.1 i get the same result probing pins 1 and 2 then pins 2 and 3 as per manual.
on my cornwell set at 20k it reads 0.00 i am confused with the innova because of the decimal placement. on the cornwell i set it to 20k because of decimal placement. the cornwell has 20k 200k and 200k and the difference is the decimal placement i assume. but all read 000 please help.

ps im thinking because of my readings based on either ohm meter, my coil is shot. right?

 

[PGHMAN]

Hey Kevin, I had the same issue earlier in the year. I tested the coil with my cheap Craftsman meter but discovered that the meter would not accurately read under 2 ohms. Visited a neighbor who is a electrical engineer with lots of expensive test hardware. He confirmed that my meter would not read under 2 ohms. He tested my coil pack and it fluctuated and I decided to replace. Not sure if the original pack was bad but been good since ever since.
Rob

 

[jammin777]

makes sense as the spec is just under a half ohm but my innova say it reads 0 to 20m ohm with auto range hmmm.
was your ski hard starting in the water before you replaced the coil? so maybe the .6 to 1.1 ohm fluctuation is to high the .41 spec may be a reading on my meter .4 to round it out and mine read .6 to 1.1 if that makes any sense?

 

[jammin777]

ok i bought a cheap coil tester with a adjustable gap and set to 7mm as per manual and it has a good spark both coils.
so for the heck of it i set it to 13mm and still has spark.

 

[jammin777]

i just hooked the candoo to read codes from my last ride and have 2 occurred faults pto and mag injector shorted to ground.
i did ground the plug wires to test the coil, could that have caused that? i cleared the codes and ran it for a very short time and the codes dont show up unless i need to ride it again to give it time to trigger codes if any. any idea? sorry not very good at drivability diagnostics.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

i just hooked the candoo to read codes from my last ride and have 2 occurred faults pto and mag injector shorted to ground.
i did ground the plug wires to test the coil, could that have caused that? i cleared the codes and ran it for a very short time and the codes dont show up unless i need to ride it again to give it time to trigger codes if any. any idea? sorry not very good at drivability diagnostics.

I don't think shorting the plug wires to the ground post will cause the injector shorted to ground faults.

We need to consider that injector circuit though, does the MPEM fire the injectors by providing a ground path? (ie: isn't the injector normally 12v on one terminal and is fired when the MPEM grounds the other?)

But even so, how could both injectors be malfunctioning, what do they both have in common?

I can see how that fault might occur if you disconnected the injector electrical connectors while the MPEM was trying to fire them, or if they lost power somehow, but that doesn't explain why you're observing too much fuel in the cylinders.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Coils can break down when they get hot, that happens a lot when the insulation is breaking down. Often getting them wet by spraying water on them lightly will expose weaknesses in the insulation.

 

[jammin777]

just ohm re-checked all my sensors with my new meter and all are good except the air temp @ 2.08 ohms and water temp @ 2.06 ohms should be as per manual air temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms both at 66 degrees F.
water temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms. can that cause a hard to no start due to fuel fouled plugs? it seem that the warmer it is the harder to start. re checked my coil while plugged in checking at the amp 4 plug from the mpem and both were 1.1 ohms which should be 0.41 ohms.

 

[PGHMAN]

makes sense as the spec is just under a half ohm but my innova say it reads 0 to 20m ohm with auto range hmmm.
was your ski hard starting in the water before you replaced the coil? so maybe the .6 to 1.1 ohm fluctuation is to high the .41 spec may be a reading on my meter .4 to round it out and mine read .6 to 1.1 if that makes any sense?

Never had hard starting issue just the bog/limp after about 10-15 minutes of ride time. After replacing the battery which I thought was good it's been running like a champ. I've been wanting to install the old coil pack to see if it's ok but hate to mess with it when I'am out at the lake.

 

[PGHMAN]

just ohm re-checked all my sensors with my new meter and all are good except the air temp @ 2.08 ohms and water temp @ 2.06 ohms should be as per manual air temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms both at 66 degrees F.
water temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms. can that cause a hard to no start due to fuel fouled plugs? it seem that the warmer it is the harder to start. re checked my coil while plugged in checking at the amp 4 plug from the mpem and both were 1.1 ohms which should be 0.41 ohms.

Tough one to call since the resistance is based on the ambient air temp.....when I checked mine earlier in the year both sensors within spec. Let me finish my coffee and head out to the garage and ohm out a spare water temp sensor I have in the bench.

 

[68ragtop]

just ohm re-checked all my sensors with my new meter and all are good except the air temp @ 2.08 ohms and water temp @ 2.06 ohms should be as per manual air temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms both at 66 degrees F.
water temp 2.280 - 2.736 ohms. can that cause a hard to no start due to fuel fouled plugs? it seem that the warmer it is the harder to start. re checked my coil while plugged in checking at the amp 4 plug from the mpem and both were 1.1 ohms which should be 0.41 ohms.

I assume you mean 2080 ohms? or 2.08K? temps sensors are funny to read. as you figured out the lower the temp the higher the resistance, so its far from a linear measurement which makes it tricky.

if its truly at 66 degree's 2K ohms, it is a little low. If you want to investigate further, pull the sensors & put them somewhere controlled like a refrigerator/freezer & then again someplace warmer.

lots of variables with these things. A couple degrees changes the resistance, so your reference of actual temperature needs to be accurate, then the sensors need to be in that temperature for quite a while, or dip them in a cup of water that you know will hold & transfer the temps better. I have tested them in a refrigerator reading air temp & it can take 30+ minutes before the reading stabilizes.
then each sensor has a tollerence range too. BUT, if your sensor is bad, I would expect to see something way off at either a high, or low testing temperature.

here's the chart. I would imagine this is what your already looking at tho.

 

[jammin777]

i was a bit tired when i posted those readings, after a bit i got to thinking along the lines of what you guys are saying about temperature sensitive. Duh! looking at the chart ragtop68 posted makes sense and am sure it was a bit warmer than 66 degrees.
how about the coil reading 1.1 ohms when it should be half that? and when it gets hot it may get worst. it seems that coil is the only suspect left. to properly do the test it seems that i need to ride and retest when it's acting up when hot. someone else said in another thread that they had a similar issue (carbed ski) plugs fuel fouling hard start and replaced the coil solved issue. mine shows great spark using the adjustable spark tester but probably would change when hot in the combustion chamber.

 

[jammin777]

oh i will mention that when i leak tested the injectors i didn't have them plugged in the wire connections. will that render my test wrong? sorry if i seem all over the place, some one pry me off this darn ski lol

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

oh i will mention that when i leak tested the injectors i didn't have them plugged in the wire connections. will that render my test wrong? sorry if i seem all over the place, some one pry me off this darn ski lol

As a mechanical test it's fine not to have then connected to the harness but I woulld've cranked it for a second while connected to watch them spray (into a rag). Then repressurize the fuel rail and watch for drips.

Maybe you didn't want to do that (shoot gasoline around), so you disconnected them.

The temp sensors, are you testing them from the MPEM connector? Disconnect one of the sensors to confirm it's not connected to the wrong harness connector (crossed).

Otherwise the reading seem close enough, I doubt your work space is 66*F 2.2k Ohms isn't really much different than 2.0k Ohms especially considering you're over 66*F and the resistance falls from 2.2K Ohms as temp rises.

But to really check them I'd try using Candoo to confirm the temps increase once the motor is fired off they should report warmer values.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Another idea you might try (assuming the problem your working to resolve is ski is running rich in low speed operation) is adjusting the TPS in the direction of lean and see if there's some improvement.

If no improvement response then something else is definitely causing it?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

On those temp sensors (similar ones), I had some that were caked with dirt and grease and looked really nice after I'd cleaned them off with carb cleaner but they stopped working properly shortly afterward (about 3 weeks) due to solvent damage. I have to think they weren't well sealed and the solvent got inside.

 

[68ragtop]

But to really check them I'd try using Candoo to confirm the temps increase once the motor is fired off they should report warmer values.

This is kinda what I am wondering. What does the candoo show for temps from the first cold start, to warming up, to hot.

 

[jammin777]

well if you think i should ck that i can pull the cir clip from the carbon seal and run it for a while monitoring the temp on the candoo. what about the coil?? any thoughts on the 1.1 ohm resistance?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yeah, just 30 seconds of running should show some heat on those temp sensors. And the result should make sense, not something crazy such as -20 F

The primary resistance of the coil sounds fine, how about the secondary resistance (to the plug)? Spray them with a water bottle while it's running to test the insulation.

Current of coil primary = Voltage/Resistance
12/1.1= 10 Amps

 

[jammin777]

if i pulled the cir clip to relieve the pressure on the carbon seal, how long can i safely run it on the hose??
i want to monitor it on the candoo, fuel pressure and volts at the battery for at least 15 min varying the throttle.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

If you have some amount of water coming from the pisser it should stay cool and you should be able to run as long as you like/need. The carbon seal tension is the only real concern AFAIK.

Of course the engine won't make much heat unloaded, so don't expect brown plugs.

Edit:

Perhaps another concern about running a long time would be the amount of injection oil from the oil pump, ie: There isn't likely to be much. Maybe if you could easily yank on the oil pump arm occasionally and watch for smoke that would make sure there's enuff.