Terrible vacation with my doo

[dkasht]

i read your thread in the candoo forum mine also resets a 3 degrees. ended up turning the idle screw back in to 9.4 degrees which idles 2300 rpm on trailer and should be in the ball park of 15 to 1700 rpm and will fine tune it once in the water after riding it for a while. so how is your ski running now? starting easy?
yes mine read -4.4 a couple time and think it was like you said timed out. i would log out of the program and log back in and hook the candoo up and read 3.0 again. i'm so glad i got the candoo so that i can do everything myself and not have to rely on the stealer.

Yes mine still does that. What I did was turn the screw in till I got to 4.2 and then reset at that area. It isn't perfect but it works. I think its a combo of a possible bad tps/ cable to tight/ screw to loose for me but it does the job. I think my problem is my tps screw is loose and turns much easier than most people say. So as it vibrates it might be unscrew a little and lower idle. My hard starts have been much better lately. Last week I went to lake no issues. I did have to give it a little gas to start but no cranking like I used to. Once it was on drove excellent. I plan on ultimately maybe replacing the tps and throttle body/ and or screw in the off season but for now no issues. When it reads -4.4 you don't have to log out just go to top and read vehicle again.

 

[dkasht]

Let's all take pictures of our compression guages with readings and randomly email them to him.... Seems like the only way he'll believe it

I have a 99 gsx rfi and it shows 150 bth sides and I have pics. Have tested it many times and with a good tester not from HF.

 

[jammin777]

after reading your post, correct me if i'm wrong, did you adjust the idle screw to where it reads 4.2 then hit reset? if so that is not the correct way and the fuel mapping will still be off. you need to loosen the idle screw and throttle cable so that the throttle butterfly is completely closed and idle screw in not touching the butterfly horn, than reset the tps. as dennis was explaining, after the reset it should read 4.2 but really is zero then adjust idle and readjust the cable to take up the slack to where it sits on the idle screw and opens all the way as you hammer the throttle up and down.

 

[dkasht]

When I back out my screw all the way it showed 3.2 off by 1 degree. (throttle completely closed.) So I screwed in a tiny bit to get it to 4.2 than reset. Yes in my case the fuel map might not be 100% correct but it works fine. Like I said I think I need eventually a new tps sensor and screw as mine feels like it turns easier than others responses. I also probably need to adjust my cable tighter to make up that 1 degree. When you reset the tps you are just telling the mpem this is the starting point. My in water idle last time I went out (1.5 weeks ago) was about 1550ish. So I am still within the range roughly. I originally was having hard in water start problems. I went to a mechanic who swore to me I need a new top end rebuild even with 152 psi in both sides compression! lol This tps reset helped my issue. I do have to give it some throttle in water to get it going and it isn't perfect but it starts and runs excellent for me. Eventually I am going to replace the tps sensor since they are cheap enough.

 

[jammin777]

the 3.2 or whatever is just a number it reads when the reset is done. starting point should be throttle completely closed otherwise it will throw the air fuel map out of wack. i would not pay much attention to the number it shows after reset. mine showed 3 degrees and asked dennis about it and seem to be dumfounded as there has been a few reports of the lower 3.0 to 3.3 degree reading. believe me, at first mine started ok in the water as well and then one day it left me stranded. because it wasn't closed completely when reset at the dealer.
but i guess the proof will be if mine runs better this weekend

 

[dkasht]

well for me I tried the first time like that and it gave me problems. The second time I put the screw in till 4.2 than reset than set out of water idle and so far 2 times out no problems. (except needs some throttle to start) I know it isn't perfect but it starts now in water for me. Like I said I know dennis mentioned the range was 4-4.5ish for the zero number and a lot of people say theirs shows that. Mine was like yours and only showed 3.2. With that in mind like I said I am leaning toward a new sensor in the winter but for now it works. PM if you want to talk on the phone, easier than the forums. good luck

 

[jammin777]

so you did set it like i mentioned before and it gave you problems? ok i get what you are saying now. so maybe with ours reading 3.0-3.3 means tps is going bad? too low of value? i may try to find a tps sensor and see if i get the correct 4.2-4.6 reading. thanks.

 

[dkasht]

I am not sure why it showed 3.2 on mine but I was certain the throttle was in closed position. When I did an ohms test my tps checked out. People say they do go bad after a while. I am guessing mine is original as I am not the first owner. I think you can buy them at advanced auto some people say. I was gonna wait till the winter to do that as the season is winding down and it is starting for now. I think they are like $50 new but don't quote me on it. Try it your way first and see what happens. Let me know how you make out. These machines are tricky sometimes.

 

[jammin777]

hehehe tell me about it these rfi's or even carbed pwc need to be dead nuts on to run right. probably because the high strung engines demand it lol ill keep you posted

 

[jammin777]

hey guys, i just got back from camping a couple days early, got a little burned out so going to relax at home for the rest of the vacation. day one, took the seadoo out, was a little hard to start but fired up and rode for a bit and ran pretty good for being high in altitude 4700 ft above sea level. took a break, then the dreaded no start. trailer it up fires right up to blurb the water out. head back to camp and replace the tps sensor, set it with the candoo, head to the lake at dusk when no one is around and fired right up tied to trailer several times with out issue. so i think yay! its fixed finally! so the next day i take her out, hard to start but finally fires up and ride for a while running good. after a half hour i do a plug chop as i head to shore, mocha brown both plugs. try to start after 15 min, no start. pull the plugs, fuel fouled! install new plugs and fouls them as well so i hold wot insert the dess key turn it over to clear the cylinders, after a couple times it fires and i'm off and riding. at this point i think screw it while its running i'm going to have fun carving up the water. after the next break it wouldn't start or even try to fire so at this point i've had enough! the lake is too crowded to pull all the test equipment out as well as the local one.
maybe when things die down at the local lake next month i will put her in the water one last time with the fuel gauge and volt meter hooked up get some readings but until then its just too crowded. a compression ck first though. then during the winter i will work at testing and replacing parts but for now i'm out of time and money. i'm thinking a new coil, air pressure and crank position sensors and get it over with. while in the water i will ck for starter voltage draw while cranking in the water, check for spark and so on. for right now i'm leaning with the idea of weak spark or tired starter as it has had some abuse from a lot of cranking. who knows but i'm pretty much done for the rest of the season

 

[jammin777]

dkasht, when i set my new tps sensor it read 4.3 on the candoo which is much better than the 3.0 i got from the old one but still no start. really didnt notice any difference but i may have other issues. it read 0 on the engine monitor and bumped the idle screw to 9.3 and idles 2300 pr so rpms on trailer and 1600 in the water.just a heads up.

 

[68ragtop]

So everything was dry, you left it sit for 15 minutes & it was flooded? Almost sounds like your fuel injectors are leaking, or did it become flooded after a long time of cranking?

 

[Krispy]

I have read it all before. Somebody replaced your injectors with a needle and seat. Its leaking, rebuild with genuine Mikuni parts.

--Only kidding. I am sorry you are having trouble jammin. Please keep the thread updated so that we know how you end up fixing it.

 

[dkasht]

dkasht, when i set my new tps sensor it read 4.3 on the candoo which is much better than the 3.0 i got from the old one but still no start. really didnt notice any difference but i may have other issues. it read 0 on the engine monitor and bumped the idle screw to 9.3 and idles 2300 pr so rpms on trailer and 1600 in the water.just a heads up.

Hi Mine reads 4.2 which is the same. When I reset mine at that point I hooked it up to my hose and set the out of water idle to 2800ish. In the water this helped me start (with a little throttle) . Hope it helps. I don't get what 9.3 means?

 

[68ragtop]

Wet plugs doesn't seem right on the restart, unless they are getting wet from continuous cranking.
An EFI should be the least likely to flood an engine after sitting IMO.

I would be curious to see what would happen if the ski is run for a decent amount of time, shut down & then left to sit for 20 minutes & then either held in flood mode or unplug the fuel injectors.

Crank it for several sessions & check the cylinders. They should be dry as a bone. If they are wet, I am guessing leaking injectors........

They should not let one drip in after shut down. If it was me, I would unplug them right after shutting them down & crank it after 20 minutes & see what happens.

Can the injectors & rails be remove together on an RFI? I am guessing the rails keep the injectors in place? Would be an easy home test to see if they drip if they can be pulled out & still pressurized

 

[dkasht]

Wet plugs doesn't seem right on the restart, unless they are getting wet from continuous cranking.
An EFI should be the least likely to flood an engine after sitting IMO.

I would be curious to see what would happen if the ski is run for a decent amount of time, shut down & then left to sit for 20 minutes & then either held in flood mode or unplug the fuel injectors.

Crank it for several sessions & check the cylinders. They should be dry as a bone. If they are wet, I am guessing leaking injectors........

They should not let one drip in after shut down. If it was me, I would unplug them right after shutting them down & crank it after 20 minutes & see what happens.

Can the injectors & rails be remove together on an RFI? I am guessing the rails keep the injectors in place? Would be an easy home test to see if they drip if they can be pulled out & still pressurized

The manual has a leakage test that can be performed. The rail and injectors can come off. Should be less than 1 drop per minute Page 06-05-10 in manual

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Have you done a fuel pressure leak down? This is where you watch the fuel pressure gauge after turning off the fuel pump. Build pressure with the fuel pump running(engine off) then turn off the pump (remove lanyard) and watch to see how fast the fuel pressure decays.

If the pressure decays too quickly, either the injectors leaked or the fuel pressure regulator isn't working correctly. I'm sure there's a spec somewhere for allowable pressure decay....?

It should hold the pressure I would think. If this passes then yes, I'd suspect the plugs aren't firing.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The manual has a leakage test that can be performed. The rail and injectors can come off. Should be less than 1 drop per minute Page 06-05-10 in manual

That's a good test, too.

The thing that makes me believe the fuel system is working fine is the color of the plugs.... hmm.

No spark can cause this obviously. Fuel wet plugs is good info, they shouldn't be drenched.

 

[Strizzo]

That's a good test, too.

The thing that makes me believe the fuel system is working fine is the color of the plugs.... hmm.

No spark can cause this obviously. Fuel wet plugs is good info, they shouldn't be drenched.

The plugs being fuel fouled after sitting is telling, the injectors leaking wouldn't so much affect a wot chop plug check since they wouldn't have as much time to leak between firing like at idle or sitting off.

Assuming spark is good, I'd be looking at the fuel system, mainly injectors, right now.

Question is if you crank it warm and it fouls the plugs then you change them, does it fire right up after changing the plugs?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The plugs being fuel fouled after sitting is telling, the injectors leaking wouldn't so much affect a wot chop plug check since they wouldn't have as much time to leak between firing like at idle or sitting off.

Yeah, I wasn't really talking about a WOT chop, our plugs shouldn't be black with soot under normal operating conditions and his aren't but this fuel flooding may be the result of leaking injectors and of course should be confirmed at this point.

But, what are the chances both injectors would be leaking enough to drown the plugs with fuel?

Also, the fuel pump is not running while the ski is sitting but hot restarts are poor so maybe this is b/c the injectors are dripping fuel into the cylinders, it's certainly a valid question.

 

[jammin777]

thanks guys for the tips. a few weeks ago i did do a leak test with a pressure gauge attached, if i remember right, plugging in the dess the pressure was at spec 56 psi and leaked down to a bout 40-45 psi within 10 to 15 min. left it hooked up for a few hours and would be at 30 psi i think. so the next test would be is go ahead and pull the injector rail and get a visual and ck for leaks. is that too fast of a drop in pressure? if the injectors pass could it be the fuel pressure regulator leaking down? yes after 20 min or so of running it would not restart. even after a few seconds of riding it was really hard to start.
yes even right after changing the plugs sill no start. but before i installed the new plugs i placed the plug wires on the grounding post and turned it over wot to see if the cylinders would clear ( didnt seem to have any fuel come out of cylinders) then popped the new plugs in and still no start! after trying a few times the plugs were wet again.
funny thing is that after i replaced the tps and ran it for a few seconds to adjust the idle on the trailer, a couple hours later, i took her to the boat ramp tied to the trailer and started it a few times but i didn't let it rest between starts and were a few seconds in between. so now it could be leaking injectors or weak spark while cranking. and now i know that removing the injectors with fuel rail should reveal or rule out leaking injectors. btw after riding a bit i let her idle for a min or 2 and idles good. easy starts on trailer though. last time i checked, with plug wires on grounding post with plugs still installed, the voltage only drops to 11.6 volts while cranking on the trailer. another test i will do is start it on the trailer with the water hose and candoo and see if i can pull up a code even though there is no maint light on.
sorry for sounding so down on my last post, just burned out i guess. right now im going to enjoy the rest of my vacation here at home getting the much needed r&r then i will do the test that i can at home and update here. thanks again.

and yes, when i get it all corrected i will post the results for sure and what the fix is as i have searched high and low on the internet and there is never a resolve which sucks.

 

[68ragtop]

I took a peek in the manual this morning & I see the injectors are clipped into the rail. I'm not sure how difficult it is to pop the rail up on the RFI, But I would pull it up & let the injectors hang somewhere where you can monitor them & put your pressure gauge on again.

To be totally honest, I was very surprised to read that one drip per minute is considered normal. What is up with that?? In my experience with automotive fuel injectors, they should not leak one drop, let alone one drop per minute. Something doesn't seem right with that at all. Can somebody confirm? In a car, one drip per minute in a hot engine would make an awful lot of vapor & make for a hard start without a doubt.

As far as the leak down, its normal for the fuel pressure to escape over time through the regular back to the tank, & back through the fuel pump itself. but it should not be through the injectors. I do not understand why that statement is in the manual.

somebody please enlighten me

 

[PGHMAN]

I tested my new injectors earlier in the season and the rail is easy to remove - just 2 10m bolts holding on. I placed a piece of newspaper under the rail/injectors to easily spot any drips and with the dess key on (pump activated) I had no leakage. I tested several times and for 15-20 minutes....not a drop.

 

[68ragtop]

I tested my new injectors earlier in the season and the rail is easy to remove - just 2 10m bolts holding on. I placed a piece of newspaper under the rail/injectors to easily spot any drips and with the dess key on (pump activated) I had no leakage. I tested several times and for 15-20 minutes....not a drop.

Now thats what I would expect to hear! :thumbsup:

If I saw a drip within a minute I would be tossing the injector if I didn't know better.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

As far as the leak down, its normal for the fuel pressure to escape over time through the regular back to the tank, & back through the fuel pump itself. but it should not be through the injectors. I do not understand why that statement is in the manual.

somebody please enlighten me

The leak rate measured by the OP seemed quite acceptable to me now I recall his numbers, but agree it's easy to watch for drips.

It's not a problem if the regulator bleeds down but it shouldn't be immediate (within 10 minutes is too fast IMO). Not sure if this one is but most FP regulators are vacuum operated and can get a hole in the vacuum diaphragm which will flood the intake with fuel.

Edit: What I mean is, if the pressure bleeds off to a few lb like a stuck pig within 10 minutes, which doesn't appear to be the case.