swap engines

[joel k]

Had to swap my blown 07 215 hp 4 tech with a 04 rebuilt ditto. When cranking it throws a p0344 code. Have checked all the grounds the, timing on cam gear and replaced both cam sensor and crank sensor. Have taken it to the dealership with no help after putting it on the computer. Any thoughts?

 

[ski-d00]

that is not a direct swap. there are quite a few differences. did you swap all the electronics? because the ECU is different, the mag coil pickup is in a different location, the TOPS system is different, the block on the 07 has a vent hole that is necessary with the 07 that is not present on the 04. I've done lots of 4tec engine swaps between lots of years including an 02 to 09 so I can tell you all the differences but I need to know exactly what you are swapping, including block, head, pto cover, oil pumps, electronics, etc.

 

[joel k]

I used the covers off the 07 on the 04 motor that included the vent and the mag crank sensor. I even used the pickup off the 07. Still throw the code p0344. Using the electronics on the 07. I am getting spark and rechecked my cam crank timing. Let me know if this brings up any more ideas. Thanks

 

[ski-d00]

So, the only thing 04 is complete long block? The locating pin on the timing gear of the crank for the mag cup/encoder wheel is different between 04 and 07. For an 04 crank, you have to use the 04 pto cover for the timing to be correct. Or, you can drill a correct location hole in the encoder wheel but this is very difficult and must be exact for proper timing. See attached link for example of what I am talking about...

http://www.shopsbt.com/seadoo-jetsk...-crankshaft-4-Tec-Jet-Ski-Boat-2006-2014.html

However, this is not your only problem but is what is keeping it from running. You also have to drill a vent hole just above the cb gear for proper ventilation if you are using the 07 TOPS system.

 

[joel k]

Thanks that all makes sense now. You say drill a hole above the cb gear? Where and what is a cb gear?

 

[ski-d00]

The counter balance gear. See pic below. If you don't drill this hole, it will build huge amounts of crankcase pressure and blow the dipstick out 40 feet in the air and potentially blow other oil seals. It has to be there if you use the 07 TOPS system. I have drilled them before but make sure to do it in the proper location and not to hit the oil passages.

 

[joel k]

Would I be better off to bypass the tops system and use the set up off the 04 ? I have the whole set up since I bought a Salgave complete unit.

 

[ski-d00]

The 04 TOPS system is electronic and controlled by the ECU and is a necessary system and won't work with the 07 ECU because the 07 TOPS system is purely mechanical without any electronics. Without the TOPS system working and the ski gets flipped over, it will dump all the oil back into the intake and it won't restart or run worth a crap(have seen it). The 07 system is superior and I would keep it along with everything else you can keep.

You probably don't want to hear this, but what I would do is pull the motor back out and do it right. The 07 has so many better systems than the 04 including head, valves, TOPS, etc.

What happened to the 07 motor? How many hours were on it? How much can be saved? I would even use the crank if it is still good then you can use the 07 pto cover and oil systems. Another option would be to use everything from the 04 including the ECU, MPEM, and LCD gauge but it won't fit in the 07 hood so you'll have to use the 04 hood as well. It's kind of a snowball effect either way.

 

[joel k]

The 07 motor threw #3 rod out the side and trashed the block. The crank is ok so that is an option to change it out to correct that problem. Which means I need to drill the hole behind the counter bal gear. The ecm I took off the 04 model and it would not communicate, so I guess swapping out the electronics is not an option. I will pull the motor and start making the changes, and keep you informed. Thanks

 

[ski-d00]

If you use the 04 ECM, you will have to use the 04 MPEM(07 doesn't have an MPEM), LCD gauge, and wiring harnesses from the 04. You can't just replace the ECM, it won't work.

I would change the crank to the 07. I would also use the 07 head if it is salvageable even if you have to replace the 4 valves from the #3 cylinder. The reason is because the 04 valves are hollow sodium filled and suspect at best. They drop valves on occasion and even more likely the older it gets. 07 should have the newer solid valves. If you use the 07 head, you'll have to remove the oil regulator in the 04 block as well.

 

[joel k]

Finally pulled my motor to do repairs.

If you use the 04 ECM, you will have to use the 04 MPEM(07 doesn't have an MPEM), LCD gauge, and wiring harnesses from the 04. You can't just replace the ECM, it won't work.

I would change the crank to the 07. I would also use the 07 head if it is salvageable even if you have to replace the 4 valves from the #3 cylinder. The reason is because the 04 valves are hollow sodium filled and suspect at best. They drop valves on occasion and even more likely the older it gets. 07 should have the newer solid valves. If you use the 07 head, you'll have to remove the oil regulator in the 04 block as well.

Where is the oil regulator in the 04 block?

 

[ski-d00]

oil regulator is on the bottom of the pto housing. easy to change when the motor is out but very difficult when motor is in.

 

[joel k]

Thanks is the oil regulator a baffle or an actual part?

 

[joel k]

Remove all the oil regulator guts?

Do you mean take out all the guts in the oil regulator and just replace the plug?

If you use the 04 ECM, you will have to use the 04 MPEM(07 doesn't have an MPEM), LCD gauge, and wiring harnesses from the 04. You can't just replace the ECM, it won't work.

I would change the crank to the 07. I would also use the 07 head if it is salvageable even if you have to replace the 4 valves from the #3 cylinder. The reason is because the 04 valves are hollow sodium filled and suspect at best. They drop valves on occasion and even more likely the older it gets. 07 should have the newer solid valves. If you use the 07 head, you'll have to remove the oil regulator in the 04 block as well.

 

[ski-d00]

sorry, I was originally referring to the oil pressure jet which is in the block just below the head gasket. The oil pressure regulator is in the pto housing and you don't need to mess with that.

To sum up what you need to do to the 04 block. 1. Drill 1/2" vent hole above cb. Use your old 07 block as a reference 2. Remove oil pressure jet, just carefully drill out but make sure to all pieces. Use 07 block as a reference.

Now use everything from your 07 so the only thing you replace is the block and piston/con rod that broke with same type as well as replacing bent valves.

 

[joel k]

motor finally started but

sorry, I was originally referring to the oil pressure jet which is in the block just below the head gasket. The oil pressure regulator is in the pto housing and you don't need to mess with that.

To sum up what you need to do to the 04 block. 1. Drill 1/2" vent hole above cb. Use your old 07 block as a reference 2. Remove oil pressure jet, just carefully drill out but make sure to all pieces. Use 07 block as a reference.

Now use everything from your 07 so the only thing you replace is the block and piston/con rod that broke with same type as well as replacing bent valves.

Fired up the motor and runs great. But now I'm getting water in the oil. Have not hooked it up to the hose so I'm sure it has to be from the closed loop side. Did not check the water pump seal. Any thoughts?

 

[ski-d00]

head gasket is most common but could be pto housing gasket and other places as well. air pressure test your cooling system and listen for air leaks.