Starting issues 2000 Challenger 2000

[goat706]

Hey guys,

Just put a new (remanufactured) 240 EFI put in my 2000 Challenger 2000. She runs beautifully once she's started, but having problems getting to that point. If I open the trottle and spray some starter fluid in, she will typically start. Sometimes I have to quickly put it in gear while its firing on the starter fluid and give it some gas to fully kick over. Once started, I can drop it down to neutral and there are no further issues as long as I leave her running. She does seem to smoke a little more than I recall, even when warmed up. Any thoughtsI thought it may have been fuel issues since there was a little bit of bad gas that had sat in it for about 3 years when the old engine blew. I have since ran a full tank of fresh gas and 2 cans of SeaFoam through her in hopes that would clear out the issue. Any ideas?

 

[Dr Honda]

NO SEAFOAM !!!!! It's a solvent, and it's BAD on the engine.


Did you do the install.. or did you have a shop do it?


Some things that could casue hard starting are:

1) Bad reed in the cages. (not sealing)

2) Improperly set TPS.

3) Air leak. (check over all the bleed hoses)

4) Lift pump not tuning on.

5) Low pressure, on the high pressure pump. (you may want to check it, and the filter screen mounted to the bottom of the high pressure pump)

 

[Dr Honda]

More......



Once it's running.... what is the idle RPM?



If your steering assist is still hooked up... try turning the steering wheel, all the way to one side to get it to start.

 

[goat706]

Oops on the SeaFoam. Is there something else I can use to clean it up?
Me and mechanic buddy did install.
1) Reeds and reed blocks are brand new.
2) Not sure about TPS, how can I check to adjust?
3) Which ones are the bleed hoses?
4) What is the lift pump and how do I see if it is turning on?
5) I'll check the high pressure pump and screen. But the fact that it idles well and runs well once its started, leads me to beleive it is getting enough fuel. I had a fuel pressure guage hooked up to it that was reading 40lbs. Is that where it should be?

The tach went out a while ago so I am not sure what my idle RPM's are...she idles steady without the RPM's jumping up and down.

The sterring assist is hooked up and functioning correctly. I have tried to start with the wheel turned fully to one direction or the other but it does not help with starting.

 

[Dr Honda]

1) Good

2) you can put a meter on the blue and orange wires (tap in) with the key on (but not running)... you are looking for 0.2 to 0.3 volts at idle, and 7.4v at full throttle. It shoudl also be smooth from idle to full. If you see the voltage jumping around... it could be going bad. AND... you need to disconnect the port side head temp sender while checking.

Idle is the setting point. If it needs adjusted, loosen the screws, and rotate the TPS.

3) THe bleed hoses are all the little ones that are hooked to the block, and the reed blocks. They keep oil from pooling, but an open nipple is an air leak.

4) The lift pump is the little electric one on the side of the engine. It only comes on when you crank the engine.

5) I tend to agree... but when you have problems... you have to check the obvious. Other wise, you could be going round-N-round looking for the issue. Once you check it... you know it's OK.

 

[buckeye_paul]

Yep what he said. Check the obvious. I am an industrial electrician and 70% of the problems I see are corrected by looking at what is right in front of you. Check the lift pump.

 

[goat706]

The lift pump is the other fuel pump that follows right after the electric one, right?

 

[Dr Honda]

........

4) The lift pump is the little electric one on the side of the engine. It only comes on when you crank the engine.

.........

The flat, square pump is your main fuel pump. But, since it's a pulse pump... it has very little output at craning speed. That's why they added the the electric pump.

 

[goat706]

Update: changed lift pump and lift pump filter, no dice. I still have some other items from your list to check, but I had another thought in the meantime. What could cause it to run rich whiles it's cranking and if it were running rich, what could this cause it to not start?

 

[buckeye_paul]

Have you verified that the pump is coming on when you are cranking?

 

[Dr Honda]

Have you verified that the pump is coming on when you are cranking?

Yep... what he said.

I don't think you needed to replace it. All you needed to do is verify that it was drawing fuel into the engine, and into the vapor separator. Even if you put a new pump on... it doesn't mean it's turning on. There is a fuse, and a relay that could have been bad.


Yes... since you have a fuel injected engine... if it's flooded... and it's running rich... it could be hard to start, since it will just be spraying fuel in. This is where checking the TPS, and the port side temp sender comes in.

 

[goat706]

I replaced the pump because I happened to have another. Lol. It is definately coming on ad getting fuel to vapor separator. I can audibly hear it. The fuse has even checked. Not sure about the relay. If the relay was bad, would i still be able to hear the pump? I've detached the line going into the fuel rail while the pump was going and fuel sprayed out.

I changed the port side temp sensor as well. I suppose the tps is the next thing I need to check

 

[Dr Honda]

OK... as long as you didn't go out, and spend the $$$ on a new one.

Yes... the TPS needs checked.... but have you checked the pump? I don't want to sound harsh... but it seems like you are side stepping the things we said to do. Go down the list I gave you a week ago... and check it all... then report back.

Since the port side temp sender is new... we can assume it's working... but since you have to disconnected it to check the TPS... it will take 10 seconds extra to check the output at "Room temp". So check it too.


Like I said before... if you assume it's OK... you don't actually know. I've been working on engines for a long time, and over the years... I've seen a bunch of parts be bad out of the box.

 

[goat706]

What more could I possibly do to check the pump. I feel like I've checked it a hundred times and you keep pointing me back to it so what am I missing? I changed the filter on it, can hear it pumping when key is turned to "on". Fuel sprays out of reg fuel pressure regulator valve stem when it's 'priming' if I depress the stem with a screwdriver. Is there something I am missing?

 

[Dr Honda]

Sorry. I must have missed where you checked for fuel at the vapor separator.


With that said... did you put a gauge on the valve, on the vapor separator, to get a pressure reading? (34~36 psi) Then... check the TPS.

 

[goat706]

I don't have a pressure guage, however, my mechanic said he hooked it up to pressure gauge and was reading 40psi. I did not witness this, but I have no reason to doubt him. I will be checking TPS next.

 

[Dr Honda]

One more thought...


I was just reading over the thread... and originally I asked about the idle RPM. Did you ever check that? (even out of the water is OK)

 

[goat706]

Checking RPM

Is there a way to get the idle RPM without a working tachometer? Mine does not work.

 

[Dr Honda]

If you have a DDT unit... or a simple automotive tach.

It's kind of important. Some of this may be as simple as, the idle needs turned up a little.

 

[goat706]

Hey Dr Honda, I have finnaly had a chance to test the TPS and this is what I found:
Full throttle = .3volts
Idle = 7.4volts

It is not jumping around when moving from full throttle to idle, but my reading are opposite from what you said to look for. Thoughts?

 

[Dr Honda]

You were connected to the wrong side. BUT... it looks fine. Since it's a "Voltage divider" when you are on the back side... it will read backwards.

 

[goat706]

How can I hook up an automotive tach to see where my rpm's are?

 

[Dr Honda]

An automotive tach (for diagnostic) will have a simple inductive lead. So... clip it onto any of the spark plug wires... and to the battery... and it will work.

(not a gauge type)

 

[goat706]

What should my idle be at?

 

[Dr Honda]

1000 to 1100 is the proper idle.