Some basic questions please.

[Canty]

I already did that. The brushes are new. Only about 3 starts on them. The rest of the starter is clean and looks good. I followed a youtube video on rebuilding our starters.

 

[mikidymac]

To prime the oil pump you will need to remove the spark plugs and put the wires on their grounding perches. This allows the engine to spin freely. Next you will need to reach down below the carbs and hold the oil pump advancing arm wide open ( this is the actuator connected to the carbs via a cable. With the arm held wide open you will need to hold the start button and let the motor spin to prime the pump. You can only do this in ten or fifteen second intervals allowing the starter to cool in between so make sure you have a good battery with a full charge. As you hold the starter button down pay attention to the small injector lines going from the injector pump to the intake manifold, you should start to see fluid moving through them. Once the oil in the lines reaches the nipples at the manifold you should be good to go. Just a note; It's a good idea to fog the pistons prior to this to make sure there is good lubrication during the priming process. I just did this to mine after it sat for twelve years and it runs like a clock.

It will take forever to prime the lines that way because the oil pump isn't spinning fast enough.

Just start the ski and let it idle while holding the oil pump arm wide open. There will be plenty of residual oil in the crankcase for lubrication so you will not hurt anything.

 

[mikidymac]

Thanks guys. That's helpful. Here is another question. I removed the starter, cleaned up the brushes and reinstalled it. But the starter is doing the same thing as before. The bendix extends, then retracts while the starter still spins. Basically, the bendix won't extend and remain extended. Does that mean the starter is shot? Or does the bendix need rebuilt? It is an OE starter.

Are you experiencing this in the ski or on the bench?
If on the bench the gear on the starter will move back once it reaches the max speed of the starter. Once on the engine the torque of it turning the flywheel will keep it out.

 

[Canty]

Sorry for the delay, I have been away.

When the starter is in the ski, I hear it just spinning. When it is out of the ski it extends then retracts as described. On the bench, shouldn't the bendix stay extended like a car starter during testing? Since there is no motor to start and increase the rpm's to cause it to retract? Also, I did remove the bendix yesterday and cleaned and greased it. It worked and turned the motor over for 3 starts of the motor, however, now it's back to just clicking then spinning. I am wondering if the bearing doesn't have some corrosion causing drag. Also, I want to replace my battery too. Just incase my tester is saying its fully charged, but unable to test the amps needed during starting.

Lastly, last night after the starter rebuild it did start the ski 3 times. I primed the fuel lines by vacuuming fuel from the return line at the filter and return line at the carb. But it still wont start. The only thing I did not do during the carb rebuild as per your thread is reach the correct pop off pressure. My pump wouldn't reach the 38 inches. "Could" that be what is causing no fuel to get into my carb? When I splashed premix in the throat of the carb it starts up on the 1st hit and runs strong till the premix is burned up.

 

[Canty]

Mikidymac, I just reread your explanation about the starter on the bench. It makes since. That leads me to believe that my starter may be good and I need to look elsewhere. Weak battery and old cables is where I'll start tonight. Any idea what a 717 needs for cca battery capacity?

 

[Canty]

Hello everyone. Happy Easter weekend. Hope you all are enjoying the at home quarantine. It has been a few months sine my last post. Life happened, snow happened, and when either of those two things happen, I stay out of my garage. This weekend I have been doing some work on my 2003 GTI LE 717. I removed the motor, fuel tank, oil tank, cleaned the hull (since there was an oil leak from under the motor last fall), installed my new homemade oil lines, installed all new fuel lines, removed the selector switch and cleaned it and aligned the motor...basically, everything I could do even buffed the gel coat because in the next few weeks, I am sure it will be great lake weather.
However, the problem still remains. I removed the carb last weekend. Pulled it completely apart, sonic cleaned it, carb brushed every passage and used a new carb gasket kit. I did not replace the needle or seat since I replaced it on my last rebuild and this kit did not have one. I also bought a Mikuni pop off pressure tester. It was popping at 37psi. There was a slow pressure drop but very slow. So after I put the ski back together I poured some premix in the carb and it fired right up and idled well, then died. I took off the fuel filter and poured fuel in to the cup in order to prime the system. Still nothing. So I poured a little bit more fuel down the carb. It fired up and then died out. I checked the cup, fuel was still in it. So I did it once more with the return line off the tank so I could see and nothing was coming out.
Guys, do I have a bad carb? Could my pulse not be strong enough? How would I test the pulse? Put a compression gauge on it and turn the motor over? What should the psi be on the pulse. Seriously everyone, I am at a complete loss and the end of my rope with this ski. I work on cars and bikes and small engines and whatever. I have rebuilt carbs many many times so I am pretty sure I am not doing something wrong here but this is my 1st ski so who know.
PLEASE someone lead me in the right direction. These motors cannot be this complicated!

Thanks again and in advance!
Canty

 

[mikidymac]

What carb kit did you use?

You can’t clean the selectors because the will suck air, they have to be replaced.

Your carb can’t leak pressure, it won’t work correctly.

 

[Canty]

Okay. So I may have a junk carb. When I say I cleaned the selectors, I mean I just blew air through them to verify there was no debris. As for the carb slowly losing pressure...idk where. Guessing can take it apart and check it again. Not sure how to check leaks on a carb by pulling a vacuum. If it was pressure, soapy water would do fine. The carb kit was a mikuni kit.

 

[etemplet]

Are you getting fire??

 

[Canty]

Yes. I pour a little premixed down the carb and it runs great, till the premixed runs out.

 

[etemplet]

Put some pressure on the feed line "arrow in" and put a hose on the return line "arrow pointing away from the carb. Apply about 15 psi pressure and make a soap bubble mix and paint it on. You'll find the leak. Did you check your fuel feed for leaks? Especially the fuel filter If it can suck air your little carb pump won't keep up. I'm surprised this engine hasn't fired up.

Edit - Ok cool. gotta have fire to run . LOL You don't by chance have that little hole on top of the diaphragm blocked off do you? Ask me how I know about that. I painted my carbs and taped over it and didn't remove the tape. LOL Good Luck man and Happy Easter.

 

[Canty]

Okay I'll do that. It wasnt until last night that I read about the o ring on the fuel filter bowl. I'll check that but I have had filter off twice yesterday and do not remember seeing an o ring on the cap. I'll be out there after church today. I'll let you all know what I find.

 

[etemplet]

I got some weird stuff going on over here as well but it is EASTER SUNDAY so.....I'll be at Mass also. Our pastors are live streaming Masses in our Archdiocese. So many people can't attend. Sad.

Good Luck Bro !!! Gonna taste real good when you get that baby fired up.

 

[Canty]

Here are my test results. I do have a gasket on my fuel filter. I put a mighty vac on the outflow side of the carb and pulled fuel from the tank. My fuel filter bowl is kinda hard to see through so I removed it once again to verify the fuel I just vac'd wasnt what was in there already. When I began to unscrew it I heard a sucking of air and fuel spilled out of it. So I think it's good, no air leaks. Still though, not starting. Fuel flows through the carb under vac, but not into the carb.

 

[mikidymac]

If your not pulling fuel there’s either an air leak from the fuel filter or fuel selector, your pulse line isn’t connected or you didn’t install the fuel pump check valves or gaskets correctly.

You really need to verify pop-off and leak down on the carb.

 

[Canty]

I will verify no leaks from carb to tank when I get home. I removed the pulse line and checked the hose and it's good. I connected it from the motor to the nipple marked pulse. I rebuilt the carb and installed the check valves (little clear plastic discs, correct?) in accordance with the seadoo carb diagram. It did pop off at 37psi. Is there a way to bench test the carb? I am going to rebuild it again with your sticky and a new mikuni kit, seat, needle,and spring.

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, follow my section on testing popoff and leak down.

 

[Canty]

While I wait for the new kit, needle and seat to arrive, can I get some clarification on a few things. I have been reading as much as I can on faulty carbs and I have came across a few things I do not know about.
1, SDS says my 03 GTI LE needs a 2.0 N/S and a pop off of between 36-40psi. However, using the spring chart for gram and color, 32psi is the highest psi I can get with a 2.0 N/S using the 115 gram spring. Which, according to the sticky for rebuilding carbs, a black spring was used (I know it was for the 787 motor but many threads have people using the factory or the black spring). I know I could have ordered the 1.5 N/S but I wanted to stick with what the factory used.
2, the spring part numbers on SDS does not match the part numbers used on the gram/color chart. I assume they are SeaDoo factory numbers. Should I order one for my ski, since there is no 2.0 N/S spring combo that gets me to the 36-40psi pop off?
3, I have read about people needing to adjust their idle while out of the water to 3K that way while in the water with the added resistance, it will idle at the correct speed. How do I check the RPM's? Is there a way to hook up a tach or something?

Thanks again everyone. I know carb questions are very common and probably very annoying. I appreciate everyone's help on this.

 

[jimmyluke]

You can purchase a digital inductive tachometer for around $10 on eBay. I purchased one last year for the exact issue (wanted to check engine RPM out of water on a 95 SP with no tachometer). It worked good enough to do the job. You simply wrapped the pick up wire from the tachometer around one of the spark plug wires a couple times and that’s it. Just temporary to get a reading.

 

[Canty]

Thank you. I am laying here listening to a rain storm outside. Its 4:40am and I'm trying to sleep but my mind is busy thinking g about what could be wrong with this ski. That's when it hit me, I'm pretty sure this ski has a tach on it. I'm not positive since I have never had it on the water. I was just thinking that I may have asked a question that the ski already has the answer to. However, thanks for the answer on the inductive tach. It can help me in the future I'm sure.

 

[mikidymac]

The seadoo carb chart is not entirely correct.
You have to use the 2.0 needle and seat and I think the spring is a 95 gram but it might be safer to order the actual Seadoo part number to be sure.

Yes, Idle should be set at 3000 rpm out of the water and 1500 in the water.

 

[Canty]

Okay thank you. I just recieved confirmation that my new kit, needle and seat shipped so here in a few days I'll rebuild.

 

[Canty]

Alright guys, here is the update. First, there is a big difference in generic carb rebuild kits and genuine carb kits. Get the genuine! I followed the sticky on rebuilding the carbs and it was very easy. My ski is suppose to pop off between 36 and 40psi. With the springs in the Mikuni kit the closest I could come was 34psi. Second, the ski runs, kind of. I installed a clear fuel filter in line on the out flow side so I could see the fuel flow through the carb. I placed my hand tightly over the carb opening and cranked the motor to prime the system. It worked very well, I could see fuel flowing through the filter quickly. Once it tried to start I removed my hand and tried to start it. I had to play with the throttle blade so I figured the throttle stop screw was not adjusted right. I screwed it down to open the throttle blade a little bit and it fired. It ran for about 15 seconds and then it died. I had to place my hand back over the throttle to get it to start, once it tried, I would remove my hand and start it. It would run for a few seconds, even revved pretty well, but if I wasn't playing with the throttle it would die. And the only way to start it again was to place my hand over the carb to get it to stumble, then remove my hand and it would start right up. If I did not do the hand thing it would not start. Even if I fully choked it, it would not work unless I sealed my hand over the carb. I even put the spark arrestor back on the carb so it would not be running to lean. That was not the issue. I did not even have time to start it, get the water running before it died and I had to shut the water off. I did not mess with the high/low screw either. I set it at 1 turn and zero turns like them manual said. Anyone seen something like this? Where do you suggest I start? Also, the manual shows a section of the return fuel line cut in two with a connector in between. What is that for? Why not just run one continuous fuel return line?

 

[mikidymac]

Get the correct springs and do it over. You can’t use the springs in the kits.

 

[Canty]

Where do I order the correct springs? Is there a seadoo direct parts place? I looked on Watersports dot com and they didnt have them.