SeaDoo Challenger 2000 M2 240: Won’t Start

[Waldronb]

Hi,

My SeaDoo Challenger 2000 wont start in water (started fine before I launched it)

I’m getting 12.4v across the battery and 11.5v under load. The starter is turning the flywheel, but there are no rpms showing when I try to start the engine. Fire is going to the spark plugs. Low pressure fuel pump is clicking and providing suction, but I think the in-line filter is a bit blocked. Water-fuel separator is becoming pressurised but not filling with fuel. Spark plugs are not getting wet. There is a light on the water sensor near the computer module. I don’t know how to test if the lanyard stop is working or not, but it has always worked in the past.

Any advice on where to go from here would be great.

Thanks
Ben

 

[ripcuda]

Welcome. Your Challenger have the 240EFI engine? Does your engine have round flywheel cover (Gen1) or square flywheel cover and an alternator (Gen2)?
If your getting spark while cranking... you don't have a lanyard kill switch issue (it stops spark).
Sounds like fuel issue. There are 3 fuel pumps: lift pump (clickty-clack) primes the fuel lines from tank, pulse pump (working when engine running moves fuel through fuel/water separator and into the VST), and VST high-pressure fuel pump (feeds high-pressure system/injectors - inside the VST).
If fuel filter is not filling, I'd suspect the pulse fuel pump. These are rebuildable (diaphragm kit). If it can't fill the filter, then it can't fill the VST (tank).
If your getting fuel to the VST (tank), test your fuel pressure on the VST... should be ~36psi... and should prime to that pressure when you switch key to ON... and not drop instantly when you turn key to OFF (should hold pressure for a little while).
This is where I'd start.
Cheers!

 

[Waldronb]

Welcome. Your Challenger have the 240EFI engine? Does your engine have round flywheel cover (Gen1) or square flywheel cover and an alternator (Gen2)?
If your getting spark while cranking... you don't have a lanyard kill switch issue (it stops spark).
Sounds like fuel issue. There are 3 fuel pumps: lift pump (clickty-clack) primes the fuel lines from tank, pulse pump (working when engine running moves fuel through fuel/water separator and into the VST), and VST high-pressure fuel pump (feeds high-pressure system/injectors - inside the VST).
If fuel filter is not filling, I'd suspect the pulse fuel pump. These are rebuildable (diaphragm kit). If it can't fill the filter, then it can't fill the VST (tank).
If your getting fuel to the VST (tank), test your fuel pressure on the VST... should be ~36psi... and should prime to that pressure when you switch key to ON... and not drop instantly when you turn key to OFF (should hold pressure for a little while).
This is where I'd start.
Cheers!

Thanks so much ripcuda - I’ll work my way through the fuel system. The flywheel cover is round, so it will be a Gen 1 by the sounds of it.

 

[Waldronb]

Thanks so much ripcuda - I’ll work my way through the fuel system. The flywheel cover is round, so it will be a Gen 1 by the sounds of it.

Yes - it is the M2 240 EFI

 

[Tim75]

Yes - it is the M2 240 EFI

Open the drain on the side of the vst. Gas should drain continuously as long as the key is on. If it stops, your inlet needle in the vst is stuck closed. It is a common issue. Brass seat. Aluminum needle. Ethanol gas. Electrolysis attacks the needle and locks in position.

 

[Waldronb]

Thanks Tim75 for your help.It appears to be an issue with the VST like you said. Do you have any advice on how to fix it? Take that box off, and spray the inside of it with brake cleaner is my current best guess

 

[Waldronb]

Couple of stupid questions:

1) I’ve taken the three large bolts off to release the VST from the block, I’ve then removed the 5 or so small screws connecting the top plate to the bottom section and then also removed the three larger screws around the filter cylinder, but the lower section won’t come off - have I missed anything or should I hit the bottom section with a mallet?

2) The oil inlet and another tube are stuck on. I’ve removed the clips but they are still stuck. Any advice? Can I just cut them and then use some of the extra fuel line near the In-line filter to replace the tube?

Thanks so much for your help

Ben

 

[Tim75]

Couple of stupid questions:

1) I’ve taken the three large bolts off to release the VST from the block, I’ve then removed the 5 or so small screws connecting the top plate to the bottom section and then also removed the three larger screws around the filter cylinder, but the lower section won’t come off - have I missed anything or should I hit the bottom section with a mallet?

2) The oil inlet and another tube are stuck on. I’ve removed the clips but they are still stuck. Any advice? Can I just cut them and then use some of the extra fuel line near the In-line filter to replace the tube?

Thanks so much for your help

Ben

Brake cleaner will not help.
Needle must be removed and cleaned. Both needle and brass seat. Seat is not removable.
Make sure all the screws are out. A gentle tap with a plastic mallet and the parts should separate. Gentle tap. Thin castings.
The float is removed by pulling out the pivot pin with needle nose pliers. The needle should fall out, but probably won’t. Gently pull it out with the pliers. Don’t damage the little spring or the rubber tip on the other end. The outer diameter of the needle needs to have the corrosion removed. Gently.

Back to the castings.
The o-ring surfaces must be clean. Do not scratch the surfaces or you will create a leak. A new o-ring should be used. Avail. eBay, Amazon.

Hoses.
There is a short molded hose on top. That hose is $75. As long as you have enough extra length of hose, you can cut up close to hose barb. Replace clamps as original.

 

[Waldronb]

@Tim75 - thanks so much for all your help. I’ve cleaned the needle and seat, so I’m just waiting on a new o-ring/gasket for the bottom section, and then I’ll put it back together again. Funny when you go through all that work to mend such a small part.

Thanks again

Ben

 

[Tim75]

@Tim75 - thanks so much for all your help. I’ve cleaned the needle and seat, so I’m just waiting on a new o-ring/gasket for the bottom section, and then I’ll put it back together again. Funny when you go through all that work to mend such a small part.

Thanks again

Ben

That corroded needle has bitten me 3 times. Corrodes while sitting thru winter.

 

[Waldronb]

That corroded needle has bitten me 3 times. Corrodes while sitting thru winter.

@Tim75 - I’ve cleaned the needle, confirmed it raises and lowers fine, and then put the lower back on. I’m getting over 34psi at the high pressure reading point (up from about 20 psi as I’ve replaced the in-line filter) and I’ve confirmed fuel is now flowing out the lower drain plug of the VST. Do I need to bleed the system of air, because I’m trying to start it, and it’s still not working.

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

Ben

 

[Tim75]

@Tim75 - I’ve cleaned the needle, confirmed it raises and lowers fine, and then put the lower back on. I’m getting over 34psi at the high pressure reading point (up from about 20 psi as I’ve replaced the in-line filter) and I’ve confirmed fuel is now flowing out the lower drain plug of the VST. Do I need to bleed the system of air, because I’m trying to start it, and it’s still not working.

Any help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

Ben

No bleeding required. Fuel forces air thru injectors. Check injector harness connector. Starboard, down low. About 3/4 inch dia., 4wires. Keyed for assembly.

Could you have mis-plumbed fuel hoses?

Do you have spark? Are the spark plugs wet?

Have you done a compression test lately? Fully charged battery, all plugs out, WOT, not in water.

 

[Waldronb]

No bleeding required. Fuel forces air thru injectors. Check injector harness connector. Starboard, down low. About 3/4 inch dia., 4wires. Keyed for assembly.

Could you have mis-plumbed fuel hoses?

Do you have spark? Are the spark plugs wet?

Have you done a compression test lately? Fully charged battery, all plugs out, WOT, not in water.

 

[Waldronb]

Thanks Tim75 - the spark plugs are still not getting wet. I don’t understand it to be honest. Flywheel is turning, and the battery is showing decent voltage, but no fuel mixture seems to be flowing to the pistons. I’m 34psi at the check gauge and fuel flows out of the bleed valve on the VST lower. Hoses have been replaced in-line with where they came from and match to the service manual.

 

[Waldronb]

I’ve just checked the final electric fuel pump and I’m getting the correct voltage. The fuel pressure regulator is also flowing. I’ve checked the spark plugs again and I’m now not getting any spark (at least from one of the middle cylinders)

 

[Tim75]

I’ve just checked the final electric fuel pump and I’m getting the correct voltage. The fuel pressure regulator is also flowing. I’ve checked the spark plugs again and I’m now not getting any spark (at least from one of the middle cylinders)

Check injector wire harness. Starboard, low. 3/4” dia. 4 wires. Pulls straight apart. Keyed for assembly.

The drain plug does not confirm vst pump operation. It checks that there is fuel in the vst from lift pump and pulse pump.

 

[Waldronb]

Check injector wire harness. Starboard, low. 3/4” dia. 4 wires. Pulls straight apart. Keyed for assembly.

The drain plug does not confirm vst pump operation. It checks that there is fuel in the vst from lift pump and pulse pump.

Thanks Tim75 - yes, the connector looked decent with no corrosion. I’ve attached a picture and also some of a few loose wires - in the hope they might be the issue

 

[Waldronb]

I’ve checked for spark, and I’m not getting spark on any CDMs now. I’m getting good compression and there is a must of fuel/air in the chamber. The only major thing I’ve done for the electronics is replace the fuse for the upper engine components (the left fuse in the box of 3 fuses) - that fuse was actually a 30amp and it had blown, but I replaced it with a 20amp fuse per the manual.

 

[Tim75]

I’ve checked for spark, and I’m not getting spark on any CDMs now. I’m getting good compression and there is a must of fuel/air in the chamber. The only major thing I’ve done for the electronics is replace the fuse for the upper engine components (the left fuse in the box of 3 fuses) - that fuse was actually a 30amp and it had blown, but I replaced it with a 20amp fuse per the manual.

Check the fuse again.

Disconnect the black/yellow wire aft of the flywheel. Try to start. recheck all your connections, especially to the ignition control box.
(one of the 2 black boxes aft of flywheel.)

Do you have the throttle guardian? Black box in driver storage. Smaller than your fuse boxes.

BTW, never use zip ties in place of hose clamps.

 

[Waldronb]

Thanks @Tim75 - I disconnected the black/yellow wire and still no luck. I rechecked connections and they look good. I don’t have a throttle guardian that I can see. The new 20 amp fuse is still fine.

As the boat used to have spark, do you think I could have melted the solder in the starter armature? The starter spins the flywheel, but it sounds very underpowered. I’m thinking that the flywheel isn’t spinning fast enough to generate current to the CDMs. Does that sound likely, or am I clutching at straws?

Thanks

Ben

 

[Tim75]

Thanks @Tim75 - I disconnected the black/yellow wire and still no luck. I rechecked connections and they look good. I don’t have a throttle guardian that I can see. The new 20 amp fuse is still fine.

As the boat used to have spark, do you think I could have melted the solder in the starter armature? The starter spins the flywheel, but it sounds very underpowered. I’m thinking that the flywheel isn’t spinning fast enough to generate current to the CDMs. Does that sound likely, or am I clutching at straws?

Thanks

Ben

I don't know how hard you have been cranking with the starter, but that is one starter failure mode. If you have a mechanical tach, check cranking RPM. Should be 250 or better. If you have that, starter is not the problem.

2 wires to check- white/green, green/white. Aft of flywheel, heading down. Should get over 100V while cranking. That's AC. Charges the capacitor in the CDM.

Check connectors at the ignition control module (ICM). One of 2 black boxes on top of the engine. Start checking ground wires.

VERY carefully, open the 16 wire connector (to ECM) on starboard side of throttle body in the support bracket. Connector is held together with a plastic nut that has a tendency to break. Pins inside are gold plated and should be clean.

There is another large connector a few inches aft of the 16 wire one. Again. all pins should be clean. Check all your ground wires. There are several. Check connector at each coil. A bad connection here can cause another coil to not fire.

 

[Waldronb]

Hi @Tim75 - I replaced the starter and the boat is working amazingly well. I can’t thank you enough for your help. Great to have to boat back on the water - I’ve just given myself whiplash with a full throttle turn! Last remaining issue is a low fuel alarm that goes off with half a tank on high angle turns - the fuel gauge has never worked. I’m assuming it’s the magnet in the fuel baffle.