rebuild myself or buy rebuilt motor?

[KMD]

I would like to introduce myself, I live in Solomons island md and I just purchased 2 1997 seadoo gti's with the 717 motors. I have owned boats my whole life and I am very mechanicly inclined working on my own cars and straight inboard boats, and outboards. I usually buy bota in need of work and fix them up. I am new to the jet ski world and know nothing about them. My current watercraft inventory is:

1997 22 shamrock
1999 palm beach 171
2- 2004 honda aquatrax jet skis (just bought last month)
several small row boats
2- sea doos 1997 gti's

The jet skis I bought both need work. I will start with jet ski #1:

jet ski 1#. The top end of the motor was off, the pistons seem rusty, piston walls rusty, and the motor seems to be siezed (I put a chain wrench on the harmonic balancer and I cant get it to move). From the looks this has been sitting for 4/5 years like this. I pulled the motor out and have it on a bench. I would like to possibly get into buying jet skis and fixing them up eventually. I wanted some opinions on am I better buying a rebuilt motor, or buying some specialty tools, rebuild kit and doing it myself? If doing myself I was wondering how many guys have the crank turned down? Is it a judgement based on condition have it done no matter what? I believe in doing things right just wanted some opinions. Also what other areas besides the engine should I look at?

Jet ski #2: I hooked up a battery and could not get it to turn over. I pulled the plugs and the plugs were filled with oil. I was happy when I saw this because its been at least 4-5 years so at least the guy winterized them. I turned the engine over with the plugs out and oil was going everywhere. I kept putting towels over the top of the motor with the plugs out and turning it over and oil seems to keep comming out. I am use to marine inboards/ outboards where we shoot some fogging fluid in the cylinders and in the spring pull the plugs and turn it over for 15 secongs to blow the oil out. I think the motor is getting hydrolocked with oil when I put the plugs in. Eveytime I put the plugs in after a few turns the starter cant turn the motor. once I pull the plugs out it will turn. I also tried doing a compression check but because of all the oil it keeps going up to about 250 psi. Can somebody tell me why the oil is getting in the cylinders? I dont know how this motor was winterized, no info on them when i bought them. This ski also seems to have no spark. I cleaned the oil off both plugs, put heat on them and when I ground out both plugs I am getting no spark. I dont hear the beep beep sound when I install the kill switch but it turns the starter and the starter doesnt turn with the kill switch off.

Also how do you alighn the shaft when re-installing the motor? I have installed probably 10 straight shaft inboards and we use a feeler guage and adjust the motor mounts until the gap is equal all the way around. I dont see any adjustments on these motor mounts.

Any advice would be appreciated I hope to get these running by spring.

Thanks
KMD

 

[ocod]

hello and welcome aboard...

well #1 needs top end and possibly at the least inspect bottom end(crank and rotary gear)
#2 is a full rebuild since more than likely oil is seeping through seal on crankshaft. If you can get all the oil out until it fires than may be??? I'm guessing.

I went through same thing.

either find better replacement used as I did 750 ready to drop in ready.
Or pay 300 for top end and ~400-500 for crank with rods plus your time to bolt everything back.
Or full rebuild of your engine for 1100.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

LOL well if the bottom end wont turn on #1 its shot.

#2 get all the oil out and get it to run. Then let it sit for a few days and see if it starts. Then let it sit for a month and see if it starts.
The reason is b/c some will fill up after sitting a long time, but it doesnt mean it needs fixing. They need fixing if they wont start on their own after sitting a week or two....or...if you are environmental. B/c it will be spewing that excess oil out the exhaust.

As far as rebuilding them...its pretty simple except for the crank. That needs a press and the correct jigs. The other thing you need is kit that allows you to pressure test the motor...unless you wanna chance it.

My opinion on used motors is if you plan on keeping it a while, its a complete crap shoot on used motors. Unless a motor has been disassembled, even an experienced motor guy cant tell if there are bearings going out. A lot of stuff out there is being sold by people who just take things apart and have no conscience. I recently was sold a "running" 951 that was so full of rust it had its own eco system inside. Long story short I had to foot the bill to send it back to get my money back (except shipping) via paypal. Luckily I had a stator cover with no stator that I may or may not have swapped. :lols:

 

[ski-d00]

#1 - if the cylinders are rusty, odds are the crank is rusty so it is shot. unless you own your own machine shop, I suggest buying rebuilt cranks and not trying to separate to replace the bearings. they are easy to buy and cost around $250 w/core. you will also need to get new pistons and have the cyls bored by a well experienced 2 stroke machine shop(not a well experienced 4 stroke shop, they will screw it up by either not having a tight enough tolerance on the bore or not chamfering the ports). the complete rebuild should end up costing about $500.

#2 - the oil problem may clear itself up once you get it running, the entire bottom of the crank is full of oil so it will take some time to get it all out. have you tried new plugs to test for spark? or a test light instead? those old plugs are garbage and probably will never fire again.

To align the engine, you need a special alignment tool that bolts to the pump area and a rod slides through it and into the motor. This is similar to aligning an i/o motor with the outdrive.
Buying used motors is a mistake, imo. You'll get someone elses ticking time bomb and then a customer very unhappy with you when it blows up and it will end up costing you more in the long run. Rebuild it right, make sure the buyer uses the correct oil, and it will last for many years.

To do this as a hobby, you are on the right track but you need to be careful what models you buy. The big problem with with the 97 GTI is that it really isn't worth that much, around $1200, so it is difficult to put $500 into something and still make money unless you got it for nothing. I try to plan on making a $1000 on each one I buy, this covers my operating costs, materials, labor, unforseen expenses, etc. and actually is very easy to do if you buy the right model ski.

 

[KMD]

Thanks for all the replies this has been very helpful. I would never buy a used engine if I am going through all the hassle of pulling the motor out I am going to do it right. I am thinking at this point I will probably rebuild at least the one and I am thinking of as mentioned get a rebuilt crank, and have the cylinders professionaly bored to fit new pistons.

I will try new plugs to see if I get spark. I tried both plug connections and grounded the plug against the cylinder top where they thread in and definetly no spark.

On the last post about the price. In my area even though its a 97 if it has a brand new rebuilt motor with all reciepts its worth a little more then 1200. I agree not worth a ton but more then that.

I just bought about a month ago 2 2004 honda aquatrax 4 strokes with 41 hrs on them each. They were owned by a 60 year old women who was the original owner. They look like brand new and really run nice. Due to the econmy I am debating selling them paying off the loan, and rebuilding the seadoos and just keeping them. I picked up these seadoos and a trailer for practically nothing.

Besides the engine should I do anything the the impeller eveything else?

Thanks again for your advice.
KMD

some questions:

1. Any recomendations on places to get rebuilt cranks, and the cylinders bored?

2. How do I get all the oil out of ski #2, do I just keep cranking it over with the plugs out? I cranked it for probably 3 minutes total and oil is still comming out (as I said the ski has been sitting for at least 4 years).

 

[ocod]

LOL well if the bottom end wont turn on #1 its shot.

#2 get all the oil out and get it to run. Then let it sit for a few days and see if it starts. Then let it sit for a month and see if it starts.
The reason is b/c some will fill up after sitting a long time, but it doesnt mean it needs fixing. They need fixing if they wont start on their own after sitting a week or two....or...if you are environmental. B/c it will be spewing that excess oil out the exhaust.

As far as rebuilding them...its pretty simple except for the crank. That needs a press and the correct jigs. The other thing you need is kit that allows you to pressure test the motor...unless you wanna chance it.

My opinion on used motors is if you plan on keeping it a while, its a complete crap shoot on used motors. Unless a motor has been disassembled, even an experienced motor guy cant tell if there are bearings going out.A lot of stuff out there is being sold by people who just take things apart and have no conscience. I recently was sold a "running" 951 that was so full of rust it had its own eco system inside. Long story short I had to foot the bill to send it back to get my money back (except shipping) via paypal. Luckily I had a stator cover with no stator that I may or may not have swapped. :lols:

Haha got ahead of my typing and reading of #1 and #2

I wouldn't go to eBay for rebuild but there are two members that used SES.
There are two threads on it.
Fullbore is another. Or SBT

Then like I said do it yourself. It's not hard at all just need to outsource boring.

Minnetonka or 99spxx part machines and you'll find some reliable oem engines with good compression.