One huge issue with rebuilding a 2003 GTI LE, single carb

[benjilafouine]

Actually, my problem is more complex: I had the carb rebuilt, the whole engine replaced and the rotary valve as well (timing). So, when an issue remains, what part is responsible? Since the carb was opened twice (and not under warranty), I decided to go with the carb. If anything remains beyond that, it will be under warranty by BRP. I sincerely hope that the issue was with that 12 years old carb. I will know next week.

Benji.

 

[Mickirig1]

I know you spent a lot of money on this Ski. You have to figure since the engine is rebuilt and now the carb will be new. For the most part you have a new Ski. You could of put the same money in a newer ski. But it's would not have a new engine and carb. Now you have 300 hours, maybe more of life in this one. Use the right oil and keep up on it and it will serve you well. I have no regrets about having older Ski's. I spent $800 on my 2 GTI's with a Shorlander trailer. Any parts and repairs are just upkeep on our toys.

 

[benjilafouine]

Hello,

Hmmm. I did not want to hijack another thread so I am linking them. While reading the following thread and like the original OP of the other thread, my Sea-Doo also "hesitates" (as he says) plus some issues going from low speed to high speed. If you read this other thread, the OP had his carb rebuuilt and is having issues since then. Mine was rebuilt by a mechanics using a jobber kit. In this other thread, [MENTION=75831]chris.clementz[/MENTION] and [MENTION=69521]soccerdad[/MENTION] mentioned not to use the spring from the kit because it wasn't the good one and that there would be a "transition tuning" issue.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?81000-96-gsx-787-hessitates-off-the-line

Could someone elaborate on that? Am I experiencing a "transition tuning" issue??? If I understand the transition word well, are we talking about the transition between ls and hs and/or an acceleration hesitation? I got so tired of trying to adjust my carb that in the end I ordered a new one (see previous posts) and it is being installed this week at the dealer because I do not have the time to do this myself and I am not even sure I will get a last opportunity to test it this year unless wearing a jacket.

Please enlighten me!!!

Benji.

 

[1of500]

Definitely test it after the carb is installed. If someone put the wrong spring in it will effect the pop off pressure of the carb. This is why most recommend doing the rebuild yourself. There are so many unknowns when someone else is doing the work.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[benjilafouine]

The kit they used had a 115 grams spring in it as per part number on my invoice.

http://ad-discountperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=74642

But I can't find what the spring on my GTI LE 2003 should really be. Can you imagine the source of my latest problems being a wrong spring???? I will keep searching the right spring for my model (haven't found it yet).

And could it explain my acceleration issues? Somehow, I think I am burning. And if the spring would be the wrong one, this problem would have cost me 1,000.00$ in all.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

I wish [MENTION=69521]soccerdad[/MENTION] would read this thread. How can I ask him to read it? He had an interesting answer in the other thread but I do not want to hijack it.

Benji.

 

[Mickirig1]

Send him a Private Message.
I would hope that they tested the pop off pressure. It's a very important part of carburetor rebuilding on these engines.

 

[benjilafouine]

Hope they did it. I asked them the question as to what they did. It would definitely explain my issue.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

Now the dealer is dragging its feet installing my new carb. I am sooooo tired of them. Think I am going to blow a fuse. Hello??? Look outside: we are in Quebec here. First frost usually happens here mid-october. How I am supposed to test this ski then? We are supposed to have good weather for the next five days and I can't even test this damn thing. I calculated that the time of rebuilding the old carb + the kit + the water tests (which all failed to fix the issue) + the price of my new carb to be around 1,000.00$ CDN. That makes a very expensive new carb... I am trying to prove a point with them: if the issue with the new carb still exists, they will have to be on the ball with their engine warranty. And they told me that it was normal that my new engine did not behave as well as the old one because it is too new...

I am so pi$$ed. Left a message to the owner of the place.

Benji.

 

[96spxpos]

Benji,
did they charge you for the water tests?

 

[benjilafouine]

Yes, they charged some of the water tests (when they installed the new engine and when they installed the rebuilt carb). After that, there were no more charges anymore but we got to a point where we realized that it was impossible to tune the engine with this carb. This is why I bought a new carb because I didn't want the thing to get opened for the third time (waste of time and money).

I just spoke to the owner and he assured me that my machine was next in line and that it should be ready by tomorrow. He also told me that if it doesn't fix the issue, they will want to work on it by themselves to find out what's wrong as long as the weather permits it (under warranty unless they find something else not covered by it I assume). We both agreed that we want this problem solved before I winterize my machine. At least there is some positive there.

Benji.

 

[1of500]

They don't have an indoor test tank?

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[benjilafouine]

No. And they are 20 minutes away from the dock. One mechanics told me that a tank for Sea-Doo is hard to work with because it creates too much cavitation under acceleration. Have you seen such tanks?

Benji.

 

[Austrian Rotax]

Wow what a story, this is why I do all my own work, I installed a rebuilt 717 from SES in like three days worth of work, including fully rebuilt twin carbs, cleaned baffle filter, replaced fuel lines, new full intake gasket kit (rv o-ring etc),motor alighment and all this for $1400 including motor if I had seen this story in the summer when I was on my summer vacation from school I would have tried to drive their. My machine runs mint now and when I got it the ski was torn all apart. The point of this story is don't buy a 2 stroke sea doo with no intentions of wrenching on them the new brp techs for the most part know little about the 2 stroke sea doos it seems. And BTW a brand new gts 130 here in Ontario costs 9299 +tax and pdi now in the off season there are sales going on too is Quebec a differant country lol you have much cheaper hydro at least, we get raped with outrageous hydro cost here in ontario.

 

[Mickirig1]

I would think there is at least an hour of labor or more to R & R the Carb. Then you have the water test adjustment phase. I can see why they are at a loss to what is wrong with it. The techs are all trained on newer systems and Ski's. My son went to collage to be a mechanic. He has all the certifications for modern vehicles. You ask him how a carb works or how to adjust it he gives me the same look the dog does when I ask him a question. Don't even ask about any other older systems. They don't know! If that computer scanner does not know they are at a loss. Take it to the OLD GUYS!

 

[benjilafouine]

Nice answer from a fellow Canadian. First, I am an IT person (and company owner) and starting a second career in mechanics at over 50 years old would currently be difficult and if I compare my salary vs a mechanics, I will stick with IT. I think I should have bought a brand new ski but after investing more than 100K$ in a cottage last year (on the top of my city house), I thought I didn't have the budget to buy a new ski. I saw an opportunity in a used model and I burned myself...

That being said, when I will retire, I will probably have too much more time on my hands (like the Styx song!) and maybe I will get invested into this fascinating field. My cottage is 45 miles away from Hawkesbury, Ontario where there is a cool BRP dealer but here in Quebec, the same ski that you are referring to is more in the 11,000.00$ range (by the time you get through the trailer and the taxes, it is more like 16,000.00$). Maybe I should buy in Ontario even if Hawkesbury is too close to Quebec...

But now it's too late. So I have this 2003 ski and I will stick to it for the next two years and really, it looks good! I love older cars and I have a pristine 2003 all-American car (not used in winter). When I rode a 4-stroke GTX 155 from a friend a few weeks ago, I had the feeling of having a bus under my bottom: so heavy and so complex. My 717 seems simpler.

I think that things will get better as the owner of the dealer in (Mirabel) Quebec has acknowledged that we both want this issue fixed once and for all. If my engine gives me a good 200 hours by being careful, I may finally be happy.

But if I had to choose again, I think I would have bought a nice 130 or 155 HP new in Ontario...

And to [MENTION=69623]Mickirig1[/MENTION] , there is one mechanics at this dealer who is a top notch guy (with grey hair). I hope they will assign him to my ski. I will push for that tomorrow morning by phoning the owner again. He is a wizzzz I was told by another mechanics I know (who knows him) and when I spoke to him, I had the same feeling. And I agree that 2-stroke engines are a thing of the past, except maybe for those new e-tec engines (see ski-doos).

I am not a rich guy, but I take great care of my babies:




Note: Sea-Doo on the lake in summer and ATV on the lake in winter under 3 feet or ice.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

@Austrian Rotax
The point of this story is don't buy a 2 stroke sea doo with no intentions of wrenching on them

You are absolutely right, I have already mentioned this in another thread to someone else with regards to my experience.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

My Sea-Doo is ready. It runs "very well" out of the water with no adjustments they told me (I think even the idle was OK). I will pick it up today and test it on Sunday/Monday.

That was fast!

Benji.

 

[mikidymac]

That is great news. Looks like you were correct with that new carb. I hope they reimburse you for the time to rebuild the old carb and some of the labor.

 

[benjilafouine]

OK. Some news: the spring arm was changed in my old carb. The rebuild kit came with three springs of different colors and the mechanics took the right one in his opinion. He also did a pop off test and it was OK.

Also spoke to the master mechanics there (a 2-stroke expert) who hasn't really touched my machine yet. He said that I may still be having issues because he thinks the rotary valve may not be dead on and that this is why the engine is starving for fuel. He told me that if I still had issues that he would fix it personally in the weeks to come and that he would even test it in the water himself (under warranty of course).

So until I am sure of what the real issue is, I didn't ask for any reimbursement.

This story is not quite over yet...

Benji.

 

[96spxpos]

so they changed out the spring in the NEW carb already? And the ski is still starving for fuel after the new carb has been installed? do you have the ski in your possession now or did you leave it with them?

 

[benjilafouine]

No No No. I meant they had changed the spring in the old carb, the one that we removed. And they said that the pop-off test was OK with the old carb.

Now they installed the new carb from OSD parts "as is" and only adjusted the idle (the rest is stock), they gave it back to me and I will go test it by myself on Sunday or Monday and if it still has the same issue, it will really point out in the rotary valve direction which they said they would fix ASAP before I winterize it.

I just started here in my driveway (for 30 seconds) and it seems OK but I will not know until I hit that throttle in the water on Sunday or Monday (temperature should be over 70 degrees).

And by the way, I have the old carb here with me. I may open it carefully just to understand how it's made.

Benji.

 

[Mickirig1]

Do the check valve tests first just need a piece of tubing. Suck on the in line ( should not pass air ) and blow in the out line ( should not pass air ). The top of carb has arrows to which line they are. That section is the fuel pump section. Has the little filter in it. Look for a small round back flange, pull it out. That's the little filter that gets clogged. They did add a fuel filter on the fuel in line on new carb? Look for stuff that resembles tan / white sand. Green crud could be there too. Could be what ails the carb. The opposite side does all the fuel metering work. There are little screw in orifices, they have screw slots in the faces. Pull them and see if stuff is trapped behind them. Do it in a basin or on news paper so you don't loose parts. When you done spary it down with WD4o and put in a plastic bag. Someone may want to buy it off you.

 

[benjilafouine]

That sounded almost like Chinese to me!!! Are you talking about my old carb? It still looks pretty good. I inspected it visually today. The only thing wrong I think with it may be the spring arm since it was rebuilt. Looks like new. I'ill try to post a few pics of it. Not sure I would want to sell it thought. May come in handy one day.

When I test the ski on the lake on Sunday (hope I won't catch a cold!), I will know for sure If I can rule the old carb. We may be getting ground frost tonight in some areas. Another three weeks and my ski will have to be winterized. The local guy here who does this by the hundreds told me I was still OK unless it gets below 28 degrees F for 48 hours so I am fine... I will just freeze my butt off...

Sea-Doo in a winter suit and a heater inside the hull at night, that will be the day! First ice usually appears in end November.

Benji.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

My Sea-Doo is ready. It runs "very well" out of the water with no adjustments they told me (I think even the idle was OK). I will pick it up today and test it on Sunday/Monday.

That was fast!

Benji.

Hi Benji, I just found your thread so haven't read all through it. Seems like you have a slight hesitation near or past about 1/2 throttle, is that right? And now you have a new carburetor for your new engine, etc. and lots of time working on making it run correctly I'm sure.

You do know, running on trailer means nothing except it's likely to run in water but no telling how well.

Anyway, seems like we've talked before about carburetors and maybe we discussed the high speed check valve on the metering plate, maybe the mylar film might be too thick and stiff thus causing a delay of the high speed venturi? The symptom of part throttle hesitation near the point of high speed venturi flow makes me think of that.

Good luck, my friend!