One huge issue with rebuilding a 2003 GTI LE, single carb

[howie099]

If the engine is built properly there should be no issues with the engine. If the engine has too much compression send it back to BRP something is wrong. Are you 100% sure this is a engine from BRP and not form lets say SBT? Seadoo is right on the money with the settings of the carb should be. You should be 1 turn out on low and 0 on the high side. Did they put Mikuni parts in your carb? If not that can be why you can't tune it right or the timing is still off. If you had a air leak the engine usually races.

I had my engine rebuilt by SES here in the states. Rebuilt the carbs myself with mikuni kits and needles my GTX has dual carbs. I had zero issues with it. I replaced every wearable parts in the drive line & fuel system. Now I don't have to fix it for years, just maintain it. I have more money in than the ski than I could sell it for but it should go for years now.

By the way I am a Network Manager for a job so I work with PC's and servers all day. You said you can fix a computer. This ski is no different that a computer. You just use different tools and parts. Look over the repair manual. Most of the stuff you need to do you can use standard tools. The people here can help you getting going if the dealer can't it just sucks you paid all that money for them to do it right.

 

[benjilafouine]

The engine comes from BRP but according to a mechanics I know, it would have been coming from them:

http://www.cvtech-aab.com/en/

But I was told they make very good rebuilds.

The carb was rebuilt with a kit but not sure of the brand. I have the part number in a previous post: http://ad-discountperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=74642

And when I meant too high compression, I just meant maximum compression (at 150). The engine may just need a little more breaking in. The next step would be to reverse the rotary valve if it doesn't set right.

Benji.

 

[howie099]

The kit is made by Winderosa here in the US. That is not a Mikuni kit. Their warranty pretty much looks like it would hard to get a claim against them since they don't have a no fault warranty and they list lack of lubrication as an exclusion for warranty repair and other things. I would get a mikuni kit with needle and seat and get the carb done again and see how it runs.

 

[mikidymac]

I have the same ski a 2003 GTI with the 720 that I rebuilt the engine on with all new OEM parts and had to replace the carb after two rebuilds of the original one with all the correct parts.

I know you are frustrated and have spent way too much but to be blunt you are not listening to us. With all the members here and years of experience with these we as a group have seen every issue and we keep telling you that this shop is not fixing this the correct way and giving you the wrong information.

1. The compression on a stock rebuild will not be high enough to cause any of the running issues you are having. All they would have to do to check is to put a compression gauge on it and check. It should be close to 150 psi.

2. The rotary valve can't be set to allow more or less fuel in. The rotary valves is set to spec and seadoo gives a range that it has to be within so if it is not close you flip it over to get it as close to the spec as possible. This is either correct or not and in no way is used to set how much fuel the engine gets.

3. Adjusting the choke cable to hold the choke closed is NOT the way to adjust your running issue. It is a band-aid by a hack that doesn't know what they are doing. Your choke is always adjusted to be wide open and you pull the knob to close it for starting only.

I will say it again that your engine is running lean in the 1/2 throttle area that is why when you were pulling the choke it got much better. Your carb is still not correct and this will not get better with time.

We are trying to help you and telling you over and over this shop is not fixing your issue. You have spent so much money with them this thing should be perfect. They should not be making half ass adjustments like holding the choke closed and telling you to keep running it. You are going to have to take a stand and let the owner and BRP know that they are not fixing it correctly.

 

[1of500]

I have the same ski a 2003 GTI with the 720 that I rebuilt the engine on with all new OEM parts and had to replace the carb after two rebuilds of the original one with all the correct parts.

I know you are frustrated and have spent way too much but to be blunt you are not listening to us. With all the members here and years of experience with these we as a group have seen every issue and we keep telling you that this shop is not fixing this the correct way and giving you the wrong information.

1. The compression on a stock rebuild will not be high enough to cause any of the running issues you are having. All they would have to do to check is to put a compression gauge on it and check. It should be close to 150 psi.

2. The rotary valve can't be set to allow more or less fuel in. The rotary valves is set to spec and seadoo gives a range that it has to be within so if it is not close you flip it over to get it as close to the spec as possible. This is either correct or not and in no way is used to set how much fuel the engine gets.

3. Adjusting the choke cable to hold the choke closed is NOT the way to adjust your running issue. It is a band-aid by a hack that doesn't know what they are doing. Your choke is always adjusted to be wide open and you pull the knob to close it for starting only.

I will say it again that your engine is running lean in the 1/2 throttle area that is why when you were pulling the choke it got much better. Your carb is still not correct and this will not get better with time.

We are trying to help you and telling you over and over this shop is not fixing your issue. You have spent so much money with them this thing should be perfect. They should not be making half ass adjustments like holding the choke closed and telling you to keep running it. You are going to have to take a stand and let the owner and BRP know that they are not fixing it correctly.

Well said agree 1000%

 

[benjilafouine]

Guys, you have to understand that I feel trapped here. And I am not the kind of guy that will storm in and shake the cage very hard. There is a huge issue with BRP: parts are only made for 10 years and past that, dealers do not want to take care of these skis anymore because they do not want to deal with jobber parts or eBay stuff. Their decision to accept my ski has already started a internal feud there and should I rattle the cage, it may make things just worse. It is not better if they hate me and don't want to see my face no more.

It is easy of accusing me of not listening, but the thing has become politically complex. And I am not a mechanics. It think I will just sell the damn thing and get a new one from another dealer next year if my finances get better. I am sick and tired of this situation and I do not want to fight anymore. Period. I am exhausted. I may go for a new carb next spring or sell the ski.

I can send anything I want to BRP directly, but I may not like the answer. Rattling the cage is not the solution at this point.

Anyways, I don't care anymore at this point and please do not say I am not listening anymore. That makes me even more angry because I am not in control of this situation. In fact, I am trying to forget it and swallow a big pill to forget that I purchased used stuff, the first time since 1990 and that has poisoned my life.

I am going to take care of my dog for the next two weeks because he needs a surgery and I will have to care for the poor thing for the next three weeks. I need money for my dog. And while at it, I will continue to take care of my disabled wife who suffers from muscular distrophy. To hell with the ski.

Thanks.

Benji.

 

[howie099]

Yes most dealers do follow the 10 years mostly because of their staff. Most of the good people leave a place after so many years and the technology changes. If you just finished training for PCW repair you only been trained on 4-stoke models. So for them even working on a 2003 one of the last 2-stroke years they probably never saw one of these in the flesh.

They dealer should of just told you we don't work on 2-stroke models and you might of found someone else to do the work for you.

It just sucks they took your money and you don't have a good running ski for what you paid. Take are of your dog and wife. I know for sure someone on the board here rebuild your carb for you and send it back it to you if you get it off the ski. You have all winter to learn how to take it off. Just remember to winterize it so you didn't waste that money on a new engine and it freezes on you.

I would rebuild your carb for free just pay me for parts.

 

[benjilafouine]

You got my point: if I rattle the dealer, the only conclusion I came to is that they will tell me to go somewhere else (and if you are not happy, just sue us kind of thing or don't come see us unless your engine fails). They obviously made a big mistake taking my ski and they have only two guys in the their three stores who can understand it. And I made the mistake of buying used while not being a mechanics. Also, I didn't know about this 10 years rule of BRP because if I had known this before, I would have never bought this ski. And it's true that they don't teach 2-strokes anymore. I spent almost 3 hours with one of their mechanics yesterday (in my car and at the river) and he confirmed it. He wanted to order a new rotary valve cover from BRP because it was a bit worn and it was discontinued.

I am still pursuing the diplomatic way with them. The ski is running good but just not up to my taste. Like one of the mechanics told me yesterday is that a kid wouldn't even notice because he would be running the thing WOT... And even if I put back the choke cable to full length, it will almost fix nothing.

I also have a business to run and with my personal situation, I simply cannot become hands on mechanics. I enjoyed learning the theoretical aspects of it but I will never cross this step. And unfortunately, I do not have a heated garage and at -30 outside, I will have nowhere to fix it myself during the winter. I would need a gigantic garage for my two cars, my ATV and my Sea-Doo. Maybe next year, I will replace the carb with a new one and if I am still having issues, there will still be time to act on my warranty.

I saw a carb here in Canada at a decent price. I just make to be very sure that it is the good one:

http://www.amazon.ca/Mikuni-BN-Carburetor-I-Series-BN40I-38-24/dp/B000UKJA56

And for those who don't believe it, it really seems that the rotary valve can in installed either way with a slight change in the carb configuration. I confirmed that with a second independent mechanics. So maybe someone really knows about that.

And last piece of advice for everyone: if you are not hands-on and do not have an independent mechanics to work on your ride, do not buy a 2-stroke sea-doo or ski-doo or anything from BRP that is over 10 years old. You will be saving yourselves lots of headaches. If you want to go DIY, then buy anything you want.

Benji.

 

[1of500]

It can go either way but that is so you can get it to the right place degrees wise there is a specific degree mark that you are trying to hit. I would nicely ask the dealer for a new carb at cost, and have them eat the labor since they apparently can't get the original carb right. This was the hole thing about stealership. I think you understand fully now. No one here is angry with you, we just hate to see people taken advantage of and have smoke blown up their butts. I bet there is a member in Canada that would be glad to help you out with your problems.

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[benjilafouine]

That's an idea. Carb at cost... I will explore that.

And after a while on this forum, I still have to find a member from Quebec province. Canada is huge and most people from Quebec province (7 millions population) have their native language as French and most of them do not speak English. Most of the English speaking population in Quebec (about 25%, including other communities) is concentrated in the Montreal area and there isn't much to ride on around there except filthy waters that you don't even see the bottom at 2 feet deep.

Most of my dealings are in USA and UK in the IT field, this is why I am here. But point me a "Quebecois" on this forum and I will be very happy! Si this means I am all by myself with a Sea-Doo that no one else wants to work on because of that poisonous engine warranty from the dealer.

Benji.

 

[1of500]

[MENTION=70232]Man[/MENTION]driva I think is french oh hes on the other forum

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[96spxpos]

That's it benji, I'm having my friend Georges St. Pierre go down to that dealership and make them tap out if they don't make this right for you.



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[1of500]

That's it benji, I'm having my friend Georges St. Pierre go down to that dealership and make them tap out if they don't make this right for you.



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Lmao do it

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[96spxpos]

Seriously tho. No ones mad at you bro, we're all here because we have problems or have help to offer, or both.. I know you're "no mechanics" but as someone else said, the people here are willing to help, but you've got to be willing to put in a little work yourself. I worked in IT for years as well, and if you can replace a frikkin MoBo (motherboard) or an ide hdd or a cpu without bending any pins, you can get that carb off. I had no idea how to do it either when I started. Both of my skis have TWO of the carb that's on yours.. It's literally like 16 bolts (2 on the head cover bracket, 6 on the flame arrestor, 4 on the plenum, and 2 each on the carbs) oh wait that's for my dual carb setup, so you probably only have 8. You have the online manual as support, as well as all of us here. Even if it took you EIGHT HOURS to get that thing off the first time, it's worth it. The other guy said pay for shipping and the carb rebuild kit and he'd do it for you.. You said you have like a week left of summer. Spend a day and get that carb off (it'll take you LESS than an hour I swear), ship it, get it back, put it on, even if it takes two weeks total, you can still go for one last ride and that'll eliminate the entire carb issue from the situation, then you can go back to the dealer and have that entire engine replaced..


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[96spxpos]

Ok fine, GSP is on hiatus so I'll just have the champ TJ Dillashaw come there finish the tech off with a headkick..
But seriously, get that carb off and send it to howie(?)


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[benjilafouine]

GSP! Funny. I have a friend who knows him too.

As for sending the carb, it won't be this fall. And sending back and forth stuff to the States is going to generate lots of paperwork for me (because they want to charge you taxes if they think you bought it there). So fixing it in the States would not be my first option. I had several issues back two years ago for used computers/servers parts.

I am leaning toward a new one however if someone could find me one not too expensive here (the one I saw on Amazon was at a decent price but I do not know if I need more parts than that).

I also sent an email to the dealer yesterday asking if they could get me a new carb at cost as 1of500 suggested. We'll see what they answer. My carb has been taken apart two times already. Maybe it's time for a new one!

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

Is this what I would need?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/New-Mikuni-BN40i-Carb-Carburetor-Sea-Doo-717-720-GS-GTI-GTS-Sportster-Challenger-/191391960933

 

[1of500]

needle and seat and ls jet would have to be changed per the micro fiche

 

[1of500]

http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche...ke=seadoopwc&a=180&b=7&c=0&d=-CARBURETOR-ASSY.

 

[benjilafouine]

You mean that this carb is not exactly what I need? Like not the exact good one for my GTI? Could I find a "plug'n play" one?

Suddenly I am wondering if I have the right kit in my rebuild kit...

Benji.

 

[1of500]

If you look at the microfiche the needle and seat are supposed to be 2.0 the ls jet 75 those are the only difference between them I see.

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[benjilafouine]

If I would have a wrong needle and seat of ls jet in my ski, could this be causing the issue I am experiencing? Maybe we are getting somewhere here.

Benji.

 

[benjilafouine]

When I look on the ebay item, I see that the LS is 70 and that the needle is 1.5 but I can't find where you are saying it needs to be 75 and 2.

If someone could give me the exact part numbers I need, it would help me. Also, do I need some new gaskets for installing that? I could definitely do it with a good friend of mine who is very skilled in mechanics.

Benji.

 

[1of500]

On the microfiche I posted for your ski part #24 270 500 208 needle valve 2.0. And part #10 pilot jet 75 270500427. The carb part number is 270500420, but this carb fits many skis so the Jets have to be right for that particular ski.

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[benjilafouine]

If I look my previous bill, it seems that the dealer ordered the good needle and seat but the LS value is not specified.

Benji.