One huge issue with rebuilding a 2003 GTI LE, single carb

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Thank you so much for this answer. I think I will take your post as is and send it straight to the dealer. It may put a bit of oil on the fire (tell me about it) but your analysis is dead sharp.

Also, I think the needle was not replaced (it came up in a conversation). As for the fuel lines, they are black. I saw a little grey/red wire connecting something withing the carb but otherwise, no grey fuel lines (I checked that a while ago after reading on this forum). Fuel filter gasket was replaced. I am using premium gasoline only (91 octane), does this one have Ethanol as well?

I think I am going to rattle the cage!

I paid my ride 4,000.00$ back in June and then spent 4,000.00$ (CAD dollars) to fix it when it broke. I made that choice because I paid 100,000.00$ in cash last year for my dad's cottage and I felt I didn't have the budget to buy a brand new ski for 16,000.00$ here in Canada. But I am now at half this amount and I now deeply regret my choice, not being very good in mechanics (but I can dismantle and rebuilt any computer you want).

And while they fixed it, they cracked my oil filter and it has been dripping slowly since then. Nothing big, but I don't want to dirty the inside of the hull (but a rag around it). I am watching it every hour until I can get a new one in a few days.

By the way, I will not name the dealer name for obvious reasons... But they are supposed to be the biggest in Canada...

Thanks.

Benji.
 
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Your ski did not come with the grey tempo fuel lines so there is no need to replace them.
It sounds like they did not do a full rebuild on the carb. On my 2003 GTI I rebuilt my carb completely with all new parts and it still did not run correctly. I have done lots of these carbs so I know it was done correctly. In the end I spent the $200 on a new carb from OSD Seadoo and it has never been better. I don't see why OSD wouldn't ship to Canada.
 
The key being " From Sea Doo " is why it's so much. Some times a machine just needs more work then normal. Just takes a little air leak or pin hole somewhere. They may of forgot an O ring. The Carb may just be worn out or some defect in casting. Once it's right it should not have any real problems. In theory.
 
I realize it can be complex. However I do not understand how a dealer can try four water tests and do not detect that: the timing is not right, the carburetor is set wrong, the sea-doo will skip from 20 mph to 30 mph without never going to 25 mph.

I am going to bring it back for the fourth time on Monday. I hope they will get it right this time because after that, there will be almost no more opportunities to fix this it (when the cold gets in).

Benji.
 
I was an Information Technology Specialist (that was my title, I'd rather just say I worked in IT) before I started at fire department, so I KNOW that you must have skills to deal with and communicate effectively with people/clients. I want you to start from the beginning of your thread and just READ everything you've posted out loud to yourself and see if what you're going thru/dealing with makes ANY sense. If I wasn't so far away, I'd LOVE to go into the dealership with you to effectively communicate your issues and your expectations...

For example, you just stated that: "And while they fixed it, they cracked my oil filter and it has been dripping slowly since then. Nothing big, but I don't want to dirty the inside of the hull (but a rag around it). I am watching it every hour until I can get a new one in a few days"...

They cracked your filter, no big deal, YOU'RE putting a rag around it? and YOU'RE getting a new one in a couple of days????
This is a prime example of why they are sucking you DRY...the minute they noticed they cracked it, it should've been replaced...and for them to CRACK it, they MUST have dropped something PRETTY HEAVY on it, which if they were COMPETENT enough, they would've said, "Oh $h!t, I think that landed on this oil filter, let me inspect it for damage"...giving them the benefit of the doubt and saying that they didn't notice it, the SECOND you noticed it, you should've been ON THE PHONE or AT the dealership right away.

I suggest you contact the regional office or even headquarters and then play hardball with them and let them know that you want what you paid for fixed right, of you'll be contacting the local news media outlet to report them.
they told you NO on adjusting it yourself and they want to do the adjustment AGAIN for like a fourth or fifth time, because as of right now, they KNOW they can bleed the money out of you.
so they rebuilt your carb and didn't even replace the NEEDLE/SEAT?! that's insane. They probably never even opened it up or if they did, just to clean the internal filter.

I hope you get this straightened out.
 
and you don't understand how they can do 4 water tests and not identify it? its because 1, they probably never rebuilt the carb, and 2, they know that they'll get money out of you. Whatever you do, you can tell them and demand that you want your ski fixed right and as soon as possible, but DO NOT show them that you're desperate to get out on the water. That means to them that they'll get as much cashola from you as possible, bc you'll pay anything to get back on the water. not for nothing, I know its not the best ski, but literally for a little bit more than you've spent originally just on the repair, (not including the $4k on the ski) you could've purchased an entry level seadoo spark, brand new, trouble free, for $4,999 (plus tax, fees, etc) but that's less then you've probably already spent after taking the skiback there 4X for additional repairs
 
by chance, do you have a copy of all of the invoices/bills of what you paid for repairs? and are they itemized?
 
Of course I have all the bills (they are in their system anyways). And they are itemized enough. And you bet that I am not happy but unfortunately, my communication skills could be better... I am a computer wiz but not that much of a people person. But they were strongly advised in writing that I want this issue fixed next week no matter what (and that they better have a replacement oil filter for me). I even thought that my email was a bit too strong after sending it but maybe it was not after all.

As for the oil filter, yes, they were advised as soon as I found out about it. I even ordered one here from the local guy but it hasn't arrived yet (and I am kind of remote: any dealership is at least 50 miles from here). This is why I am stuck a bit here. The dripping is minimal but enough to dirty the bottom if I let it drip for five days.

My plan for Tuesday morning is to ask to see a manager and hopefully, they will see that there is a limit that they can charge (suck up from me) for an old ski. As you mentioned, I am closing on the price of a new Spark, although I was not interested by the Spark: too small. A new GTX 130 here with taxes, trailer, cover goes for about for 16,000.00$ CAD.

I hope the issue is only the carb, imagine a new motor that would leak air. That would be a mess to deal with.

And if I do not obtain satisfaction, I will escalate this to BRP directly.

Benji.
 
so crazy... sorry man...
you say your communication skills aren't the best....do you speak French Canadian? what language do the mechanics speak? and I'm being serious... If they speak English and yours isn't that well, let me know if you'd like me to make a call to them and find out what's going on.
 
[MENTION=48897]96spxpos[/MENTION]

I had fun reading your latest post! Yes, I am French Canadian (try to figure out what benjilafouine means...). And the dealer is French Canadian too. And I am a perfect bilingual because most of my dealings are in the USA (been around US quite a lot also from East to West to South). I can even understand British English and Australian English (worked with a few of them also). Actually, here in Quebec, most people who don't even speak English often don't even know the French terms for automotive things such a clutch, wipers, hood, pads, gasket, breaks, power steering, windshield, defrost, fog lights, bumper, mags, etc!

When I meant I wasn't really good at communications is rather that when I get really upset, I have to tendency to shoot straight and hard at people and that has gotten me in trouble before. Actually, when I am very angry, I have a tendency of speaking English rather than French... Comes out more easily... But this time the technical adviser is a French person (with a French European accent). And the owners are French Canadians also.

Your offer is so sweet but in fact, they probably wouldn't understand you!!! Only the Montreal region is truly bilingual (like 50/50). The rest of the province is more like 85/15 (French). And the dealer is not in Montreal.

I went again on the lake today and my Sea-Doo really rocks... if you want to go faster than 30 mph... Below that, it works well until you hit 15 mph and then it rocks again at 30 (search me!). I traded my ride with a GTX 155 2007 today (and my friend tried mine) and wow, what a difference! His machine was like a beast compared to mine. Only goes 10 mph faster but it felt massive (and a bit noisy noisy during acceleration). Longer than mine by a good 10 inches. That makes me regretting my choices even more.

Here are a couple good links that will make everyone laugh. First one is from a French Canadian movie "Elvis Gratton" who is a French Canadian who just loves the states (he always says that he would love to live in the States because Americans are the best). The second one is from one of our beloved Quebecois music group where they say that "Quebecois" are true French speaking people... except that half of the words in the song is actually American slang. So funny. Enjoy. And by the way, if anyone has some advice for me for Tuesday, please shoot it at me. I hope the dealer is reading! Would not be surprised... It will make things easier... But I am not naming them...

Elvis Gratton (pronounce Elvis Grattonn, an Elvis impersonator):

This is the car that talks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSmz6GpKDe8
You will have a good laugh at that! The guy destroys the car.. You will catch some English words in that!
The chainsaw scene is also a real laugh (you will get the sense... even if it is in French Quebecois): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lsj3yxlzC0

Cowboys Fringants (band). They can attract 100,000 people here on the Abraham Plains in the old Quebec City (where the British Wolfe beat the French Montcalm at dusk in a war that turned over Quebec province to England). Some people say that the French army was drunk...

You will have a blast at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crXVMTHZI1Q
Lyrics: http://www.paroles-musique.com/paroles-Les_Cowboys_Fringants-Quebecois_De_Souche-lyrics,p18806
 
Let's try this. At what point in the throttle travel does this happen? (We do not go by MPH.)The sticky at the top about carburetor adjustments has a chart / bell curve. It explains when the low speed and high speed carburetor circuits function. What is in play when. Is it half throttle or where does this happen? It will point to what could be the problem. If you pull the choke a little bit at the point of contention does it function right? Stall/ stumble or go?
I start to think something was not replaced in the carburetor.
 
Well [MENTION=69623]Mickirig1[/MENTION] , I think for starters, he mentioned that they did NOT replace the needle, which means they more than likely did NOT replace the seat which means more than likely they did NOT replace the spring which means more than likely they did NOT truly rebuild this guys carb.. Which is why I tend to call people's bluff sometimes.. For example, stating that I've got a fellow mechanic friend who is in town for the week and we are going to crack the carb open right there on the bench in front of them to verify that all that was said was done was actually done.. I'm not in the business of catching people in lies, but I've been burned before in the past, which makes me keep my guard up. For example, I went for the $19.99 oil change at tire kingdom and I went there instead of the CLOSER $19.99 place bc they also do a FREE tire rotation. So I marked the tires/rims before I dropped it off. They said they will change the oil and rotate the tires. I pick the car up, and when I go to pay/sign, I said ok, you changed the oil and rotated the tires, correct? The MANAGER said yes.. I said ok.. Paid the man, then said ok thanks, for changing my oil AND rotating my tires bc they needed it.. He said you're welcome.. So I go out to the car, see that the tires were NOT rotated, so I walk back in and said "I just wanted to make sure for my documentation for sale records, you changed the oil and rotated the tires TODAY, correct?" The manager said yes! Yes we did!... I said "no you didn't, I marked the rims and tires before I brought it in, and they're still in the same spot"... He said "uh uh uh... Yea, we couldn't rotate them bc the one tire showed a certain wear pattern so we couldn't do it" I said, yes that's exactly why I wanted them rotated.. I just walked out pissed


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Anyway, benji, answer mickirigs question and also get the itemized copy of ALL THE service you've had done.. Then pm me when you get it and I'll give you my email.. I'm curious to see what they did


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See answers.

Let's try this. At what point in the throttle travel does this happen? (We do not go by MPH.)

It happens at about half throttle. Speed stays a 20 mph and when throttle reach about 2/3, the ski jumps to 30 mph. If I let go slightly of throttle, his speed jet shuts off and ski goes down to 20 mph (or e bit less). If I go WOT throttle from idle, the ski jumps pretty well with a slight hesitation which I attribute to a 2-stroke engine.

The sticky at the top about carburetor adjustments has a chart / bell curve. It explains when the low speed and high speed carburetor circuits function. What is in play when. Is it half throttle or where does this happen?

Like I said, at about half throttle but hard to say precisely.

It will point to what could be the problem. If you pull the choke a little bit at the point of contention does it function right? Stall/ stumble or go?

If I pull the choke briefly when it is stalled at 20 (rather than increasing the throttle even more), the ski will jump to 30 mph immediately and if I keep the choke at about 1/3 with my left finger and then operate the throttle with the right finger, 90% of the problem is gone: runs at idle, accelerate correctly and goes fast as well (including cruising at 25 mph).

I start to think something was not replaced in the carburetor.

They rebuilt the carb with a full carb kit. As far as I could gathered this afternoon from my neighbor who is an industrial mechanics (trucks, snow blowers, etc.), all the seals/gaskets were changed as well as the needles (like the inside of a pen, including tip, about one inch long with some color at the tip end), diaphragm and a bunch of stuff I could not recognize (I saw the worn out and replaced parts with my own eyes). Also, a part that looks like a gun bullet but in a copper like color was changed as well (cylindrical with a pointed tip). It is to be noted that this card was working perfectly before the engine got toasted and before rebuild.

Aside than that, I have unfortunately no more information to provide (this is why I brought to a shop, not being enough of an expert).

Lastly, and about the invoices, I can scan them and send them by email but you will find that French is hard to read for a non french-speaking person. That would have to go to Tuesday since I left them at my house in Montreal (except for the last one). One good thing about this last invoice is that it stipulates that (free translation): "if the carb adjustment is not right, we will do the adjustment again" and that the "last adjustment was not charged because a wrong adjustment was made". For the parts, there was this:

http://ad-discountperformance.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=74642
Part number: 03-451460

"Genuine Mikuni Needle and Seat 2.0 SEADOO 270500208". See: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Genuine-Miku...EADOO-270500208-787-800-947-951-/181722970682

Hope this answers a lot of questions. Phewww! I wish Sea-Doo's were computers...

Benji.
 
There should be no hesitation. They probably didn't properly clean it or it's out of adjustment. I would go to there test site with them and when the tech says it's fixed I would test it. It's your ski you should know it better than anyone else.

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Yes well said.. When the douche' (that about as French as I get) says "no, WE will go water test it" take that ride with them.


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Any brass parts that are small, flat and round like a coin with a small hole in the middle? Should be two of them. Maybe the adjustment will do the trick.
 
Can't say... But I guess I will know Tuesday. Did you look at the parts list from the part numbers I specified?

Benji.
 
Hello,

Here are the news about this story.

I went to the dealer today and a mechanics accompanied me for a water test in the river at no charge. We spent a little bit more than an hour fine tuning the carb to come to the conclusion that we cannot solve the issue completely. The story is that we tried the low speed screw at 2 and that the result was not very good: the ski would not even hit 40 mph anymore. So he put it back at 1.5 and then he started adjusting the choke cable (like giving it less air, more gas). He went about half way in the adjustment and the ski was behaving better and accelerating better. Then we tried the low speed screw to 1.75 and it was worse. So we put it back to 1.5. As for the choke, he said, he closed it about 20%, no more.

So in the end, my ski is not perfect but acceptable. Back at the dealer, we did a bit of a brainstorming with the senior tech (he's good, everyone says so, even outside of the dealer). Hypotheses are:

- The compression is a bit too high in the rebuild engine so that when the high jet kicks in, the ski jumps more than it should. They want me to use it a little bit more to see if loosening the engine a bit more will not attenuate the issue (another 10 hours).
- The carb could have a micro-fracture in it although I am not buying that one since it was working very good with the old engine.
- We haven't found the right adjustment yet (with the old motor, the low speed was adjusted at 2.5 they think, but today, an adjustment of 2 made it worse. The senior tech would like to have a shot at it but only after I wear the engine some more (like another 10 hours).
- The rotary valve does not allow enough gas. It seems that a rotary valve can be installed either side: one side allows less gas in and the other side allows more gas (by design). Of course, both sides have a completely different carburetor adjustment. If after another 10 hours, the ski is always the same, it may be worth a shot to flip the rotary valve and retry fine tuning the carb and do a test (about three hours of fine tuning, but the result is unknown).

In conclusion, I will use it the way it is for some more time (this may go to next year as summer is about to come to an abrupt end here in a few days!). The ski still works very well: starts well, goes fast, very stable. If it wasn't for this issue in the 20-30 mph range (now 22-27 after adjustment), it would be perfect.

P.S. About BRP not accepting skis more than 10 years old (including ski-doos), the issue is that BRP only manufacture parts for 10 years. After that, it is a jobber market or an eBay market, which they don't want to get involved with. An automobile has parts for 20 years, but a sea-doo/ski-doo has a 10 years parts availability (unless they still have them in stock or that a part is used for several years/models).

Comments ad suggestions are appreciated.

Benji.
 
P.S. About BRP not accepting skis more than 10 years old (including ski-doos), the issue is that BRP only manufacture parts for 10 years. After that, it is a jobber market or an eBay market, which they don't want to get involved with. An automobile has parts for 20 years, but a sea-doo/ski-doo has a 10 years parts availability (unless they still have them in stock or that a part is used for several years/models).

Comments ad suggestions are appreciated.

Benji.[/QUOTE]


Not buying this. Also if you have the ski 20% choked something is majorly wrong.

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I wouldn't call that choked. Basically, when the first mechanics cleaned the carb back in July, they lost all adjustments because the mechanics who did it was not very skilled on these machines and that my engine was about to fail. So I ended up with a carb that we didn't know much about the initial adjustments (including choke cable adjustment). We have to start again from scratch.

Now, for the choke, there is not much in the shop manual about it. It only says: Check/Adjust choke cable. So the mechanics (not the same one as paragraph above) adjusted the choke cable to the best of his knowledge and he mentioned that this adjustment was very light and that he has seen other sea-doos with much worse choke cable adjustments. But you are right on something: there could be something else wrong somewhere. This is why we have hypotheses. I can't say more than that, I am not expert enough. One thing is sure, if it was the new engine, it would be dead already!!! And they do not think it's leaking air. This is where my knowledge stops and why I am calling on the experts.

Thanks.

Benji.
 
And by the way, we were 510 pounds of people on it this weekend and I mean, we were at the limit. The engine did its job. It was the true test for the engine IMO. And it was going above the waves at 35+ mph even at that weight. When I am alone on it, I am reaching 42. No really, something is not normal in the transition from the low jet to high jet (too lean somewhere because if I briefly pull the choke, it jumps). But otherwise, it is OK except a bit sluggish on WOT accelerations (hesitations).

Now there is another thing to consider: the economic value of a thing. I spent more money on this thing than its economic value and throwing more money on it (like new carb and fine tuning) would be a complete loss of money unless I could be sure 100% in advance that it was the real solution. Where do you stop spending? When your 2003 ride has cost you as much as a 2010 ride???

I am about to call it quits. It will stay that way and I will make the best of it until it is good for scraps (read here: frustration).

Benji.
 
Get everything that they are willing to do in writing. 10 hours from now could be next year and they forget who you are.

I am betting on an air leak. Everything you wrote is saying you are running lean. I remember in the old days you would spray carb cleaner around the seals (between the manifold and carb for example) and monitor for a change in rpm. Not sure the would work on a 2 stroke

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They said they checked it for leaks and that they found none. It is a new/rebuilt engine from BRP. Another mechanics I know told me that if there was an air leak, the cold starting and the idle would not be working well in his opinion. But cold starting is great (better than my old engine, like 10 seconds, of course, this is not a 4-stroke) and idle is perfect. We checked it again today with the mechanics as I started it and left running on the water in neutral and holding it for a minute when hot. It was running smooth. If there was a leak, it would have to be minimal.

But still scratching my head...

P.S.: except for the engine that I have a one year warranty from BRP, nothing is warrantied for more than 90 days (by law here in Quebec). So writing is useless since in 90 days, my ride will be under snow...

Benji.
 
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