buckeye_paul
New Member
I use Pennzoil Premium Plus synthetic blend (XLF). I get it at Sam's Club for $13.98.
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Oil injection bypass
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
That's what I have in the islandia also. I may change to something else after I get a few tanks of "Break-in" done.
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
This is the merc BOAT section. your engine is TOTALY different, and so are it's requirements. Please make a post in 2-stroke PWC section.
SeptemberC
Active Member
I have a 2000 Challenger 1800 with the Mercury M2 Sport Jet 210hp. I suspect low hours due to the great condition the entire boat is in. However! The previous owner said that he had never had it serviced. So I have a couple questions...
1) what service should I do for winterization (I have NO dealer). I will have to do myself.
2) I have read about the oil injection bypass. If I didn't want to do this, but want to replace the part that often fails, what is that part called & how do I find a part number for it?
3) I would like to have a Bimini top. Does anyone have any thoughts? Yeah or Nay? What size? Where to look to purchase?
And lastly....
4) I noticed that we have to have the steering wheel turned about a 1/4 turn to the right when traveling down (or up) river anytime we are going speed above no wake. Any clues as to why this would happen?
Thank you in advance.
1) what service should I do for winterization (I have NO dealer). I will have to do myself.
2) I have read about the oil injection bypass. If I didn't want to do this, but want to replace the part that often fails, what is that part called & how do I find a part number for it?
3) I would like to have a Bimini top. Does anyone have any thoughts? Yeah or Nay? What size? Where to look to purchase?
And lastly....
4) I noticed that we have to have the steering wheel turned about a 1/4 turn to the right when traveling down (or up) river anytime we are going speed above no wake. Any clues as to why this would happen?
Thank you in advance.
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
This thread is on the oil bypass. So... if you would like answers on 1, 3, and 4... please start your own threads. (Break the questions up)
As far as #2.....
The only part that really fails in the the oil system is the main, oil drive gear. Unfortunately... that gear in on the crankshaft, and to replace it... the engine has to be split to get to it.
I like oil injection system. If maintained, they do work well, and they save you $$$ by burning less oil. Also... at idle, your smoke will be minimized. But... on the Merc engines... the gear can give out without warning. If you've ever overheated the engine... there is a high probability of the gear being damaged... and at that point... it's just a mater of time before it wears out.
Since the boat is new to you... and you think you may want to keep the system... I would find a shop that has a bore scope, and have them inspect the gear. Basically, the oil pump needs to come out (2 bolts) then the bushing, and drive gear will slide out of the block... and a scope can go in that hole to look at the gear on the crank. If there is no damage... run the pump. If the gear shows ANY wear... go pre-mix.
As far as #2.....
The only part that really fails in the the oil system is the main, oil drive gear. Unfortunately... that gear in on the crankshaft, and to replace it... the engine has to be split to get to it.
I like oil injection system. If maintained, they do work well, and they save you $$$ by burning less oil. Also... at idle, your smoke will be minimized. But... on the Merc engines... the gear can give out without warning. If you've ever overheated the engine... there is a high probability of the gear being damaged... and at that point... it's just a mater of time before it wears out.
Since the boat is new to you... and you think you may want to keep the system... I would find a shop that has a bore scope, and have them inspect the gear. Basically, the oil pump needs to come out (2 bolts) then the bushing, and drive gear will slide out of the block... and a scope can go in that hole to look at the gear on the crank. If there is no damage... run the pump. If the gear shows ANY wear... go pre-mix.
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Agree with the process to identify the condition at that point in time. However, as soon as you put it back together and run the engine, you have no way to monitor the condition of wear on a plastic gear. (ie there is no sensor, warning, or any other type of indication that a major failure is going to occur.) I also agree about the excessive oil usage and an increase in smoke ( mainly at idle ), so there is tradeoff. However, I can take the smoke, and can buy alot of oil ( and change plugs more frequently) for $3000-5000. (No way I could do what Dr Honda does, so thats probably what it would cost me... I would be paying for it all)
Since there are reports of possible design flaws with this particular oil injection system ( and a redesign in the 2002 timeframe) , there is an increase in risk with the scope then hope approach. Also, I am not sure there is a correlation between failures and usage, hours, age, maintenance performed, etc. So regardless of what the previous owner did or did not do, you may not be able to determine if you are at higher risk.
I did the bypass so I am a little biased. However, since doing this I have never second guessed myself.
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SeptemberC
Active Member
Thanks everyone!
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Make sure the bushings that support the pump shaft are in good shape... and replace the drive gear. The new one is much stronger than the old style. It's Part number 14513A09
500whp335i
New Member
if you go back to page two i posted a few pics of where the pump is and what it looks like when its off
500whp335i
New Member
i found when i use amsoil hd marine oil it hardly smoked at idle and no wake zones... but when i used other oils it smoked a little bit more but still i feel safe going wot all the time and never worrying about a pump failing...
Beiky
Member
I use Quicksilver Premium Plus oil, do yo think?
What do you have here Marine Solutions kit?
http://www.marinesolutionswi.com/
What do you have here Marine Solutions kit?
http://www.marinesolutionswi.com/
500whp335i
New Member
That's good oil, I bit pricey tho... That oil pump looks nice, must connect to the tps sensor... I'm too lazy to put that in...
challenger01
Member
Help with oil injection bypass on 240 EFI
After reading many postings across the internet, it seems that there are many who have bypassed the oil injection on a mercury engine (typically the outboards). For those that have bypassed the oil injection system on your Mercury engines does anyone have any problems or regrets? Does the smoking let up once you get a constant 50:1 ratio? Has anyone switched back to the oil injection system? Did anyone consider a change but decide to keep the injection system? How about a light premix and oil injection? (If so what ratio) There are many reports of oil injection failure, but I imagine that overall there has to be thousands of the Mercury engines in many different applications with no issues, but my engine is a year older and I do not have the capability to rebuild it if there is a failure.
I know I went back and forth last season about doing the bypass, but never got around to doing it because I like the variable ratio, but I typically fill up from 5 gallon containers so premix is not a real issue. For about $18 I just received the bypass parts from boats.net as specified at the top of the thread, and I took a quick look and have some questions about the procedure.
I guess the first question is am I looking at the correct location for the oil pump? (see attached image) If not please provide some direction. What is the best way to get access to removal? Do you need to remove any additional parts?
Are there any other points of advice as far as converting the system.
All comments are welcome.
Thanks again
After reading many postings across the internet, it seems that there are many who have bypassed the oil injection on a mercury engine (typically the outboards). For those that have bypassed the oil injection system on your Mercury engines does anyone have any problems or regrets? Does the smoking let up once you get a constant 50:1 ratio? Has anyone switched back to the oil injection system? Did anyone consider a change but decide to keep the injection system? How about a light premix and oil injection? (If so what ratio) There are many reports of oil injection failure, but I imagine that overall there has to be thousands of the Mercury engines in many different applications with no issues, but my engine is a year older and I do not have the capability to rebuild it if there is a failure.
I know I went back and forth last season about doing the bypass, but never got around to doing it because I like the variable ratio, but I typically fill up from 5 gallon containers so premix is not a real issue. For about $18 I just received the bypass parts from boats.net as specified at the top of the thread, and I took a quick look and have some questions about the procedure.
I guess the first question is am I looking at the correct location for the oil pump? (see attached image) If not please provide some direction. What is the best way to get access to removal? Do you need to remove any additional parts?
Are there any other points of advice as far as converting the system.
All comments are welcome.
Thanks again
Attachments
500whp335i
New Member
No regrets, it smokes a little when your at low rpms for a while... I found using amsoil hp marine oil is the best so far.. It has the lowest burn temp so it really cuts down on the smoke.. I stick to 50:1 with my premix... I removed all the oil lines and the top reserve tank and just plugged the hoses..
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Challenger01:
I'm a fan of MOST oil injection systems... and I always recommend service, and keeping them. BUT... in the case of the merc oil system... I recommend removing it, if your engine has some time on it.
As you know... the reason it fails is because the plastic gear on the crankshaft is known to fail. When it gives out, the pump stops, and the engine dies.
The general consensus of why it dies is that if the engine runs hot... the bushings get tight on the shaft, and the extra load wears the gear.
If you want to keep it, you need to know the health of that gear. If you can get your hands on a bore scope... you can remove the pump, and the shaft, and look inside. But... there can be the assumption that since your boat is 12 years old... it's time to pull the injection pump.
With that said... keep the parts around !!! If you do a rebuild... you can replace the plastic gear to the new style, and put it back on.
The only draw backs are:
1) a little more smoke at idle
2) burn a little more oil overall.
3) having to pre-mix a BIG 40 gallon tank!! (that's not easy to do)
I'm a fan of MOST oil injection systems... and I always recommend service, and keeping them. BUT... in the case of the merc oil system... I recommend removing it, if your engine has some time on it.
As you know... the reason it fails is because the plastic gear on the crankshaft is known to fail. When it gives out, the pump stops, and the engine dies.
The general consensus of why it dies is that if the engine runs hot... the bushings get tight on the shaft, and the extra load wears the gear.
If you want to keep it, you need to know the health of that gear. If you can get your hands on a bore scope... you can remove the pump, and the shaft, and look inside. But... there can be the assumption that since your boat is 12 years old... it's time to pull the injection pump.
With that said... keep the parts around !!! If you do a rebuild... you can replace the plastic gear to the new style, and put it back on.
The only draw backs are:
1) a little more smoke at idle
2) burn a little more oil overall.
3) having to pre-mix a BIG 40 gallon tank!! (that's not easy to do)
challenger01
Member
Thanks for all of the feedback.
Can you look at the image I posted and tell me if I have circled the correct area of concern. If not, please direct me.
If I am in the correct location, could anybody that has done this conversion let me know if there are any tricks to removal. Is the temporary removal of other components necessary for the removal. I read the thread several times so I guess its all in there, just checking.
Also, I have a nearly full tank of stabilized fuel (almost 40 gallons), once the blockoff is in place, what are the suggestions for getting the oil ratio correct to 50:1. Do I need to siphon out some quantity of the fuel (if so how much) and premix the oil. Is it correct to assume that the oil needs to mix with fuel rather than directly adding oil to the fuel. Will taking an extended drive on the trailer mix the oil appropriately. I live in PA so there will be plenty of hills, bends and potholes!
One last question. I have faithfully been using Quicksilver Premium Plus, but if I set the ratio at 50:1 is it acceptable to switch to the less expensive Penzoil product that some have found for nearly 1/2 the price? I only get 3-4 months of use per year so I am not trying to be cheap, but seeking some opinions.
Thanks for everything,
Brian
Can you look at the image I posted and tell me if I have circled the correct area of concern. If not, please direct me.
If I am in the correct location, could anybody that has done this conversion let me know if there are any tricks to removal. Is the temporary removal of other components necessary for the removal. I read the thread several times so I guess its all in there, just checking.
Also, I have a nearly full tank of stabilized fuel (almost 40 gallons), once the blockoff is in place, what are the suggestions for getting the oil ratio correct to 50:1. Do I need to siphon out some quantity of the fuel (if so how much) and premix the oil. Is it correct to assume that the oil needs to mix with fuel rather than directly adding oil to the fuel. Will taking an extended drive on the trailer mix the oil appropriately. I live in PA so there will be plenty of hills, bends and potholes!
One last question. I have faithfully been using Quicksilver Premium Plus, but if I set the ratio at 50:1 is it acceptable to switch to the less expensive Penzoil product that some have found for nearly 1/2 the price? I only get 3-4 months of use per year so I am not trying to be cheap, but seeking some opinions.
Thanks for everything,
Brian
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
In your picture... yes... that's your oil pump.
Oil... that's up to you. I personally run Pennzoil synth. I think it's about $15/gal. Realistically... any TCw3 oil will work... but the synthetic or the blends are better for the engine.
Pre-mixing your tank... that one too is up to you. As I was saying... mixing that much fuel will be a pain. And, even if you mix it well... you will have a tendency of mixing rich "To be safe"... and eventually... you will have smokey fuel. Also... right now... do you know EXACTLY how much fuel is in the tank?
Regardless... I would siphon out 4~5 gal... and mix all the needed oil into that. Then... pour it back in, and then drive around.
Where in Pitt are you?? I'm near Irwin.
Oil... that's up to you. I personally run Pennzoil synth. I think it's about $15/gal. Realistically... any TCw3 oil will work... but the synthetic or the blends are better for the engine.
Pre-mixing your tank... that one too is up to you. As I was saying... mixing that much fuel will be a pain. And, even if you mix it well... you will have a tendency of mixing rich "To be safe"... and eventually... you will have smokey fuel. Also... right now... do you know EXACTLY how much fuel is in the tank?
Regardless... I would siphon out 4~5 gal... and mix all the needed oil into that. Then... pour it back in, and then drive around.
Where in Pitt are you?? I'm near Irwin.
challenger01
Member
Dr. Honda,
Thanks again for your help. I know that this is the safest thing to do for the longevity of the engine, but I just look at all of the hoses and and electrical components and I get a little nervous about removing anything on the engine. I know this is probably a job that i will look back on and say it was easy, but I just want to make sure I have everything in order before I tackle it.
We communicated a bit last fall, but I know you are always helping people all of the world, but I live about 10 miles from you.
I am in Elizabeth Township.
I don't want to use "cheap" fuel, but the Pennzoiil Synth you mention is $13 / gallon less than Quick Silver Premium Plus at Wal Mart. Where in our area do you pick up the Pennzoil?
Hopefully we can meet up some time this boating season. Let me know if there are any Pittsburgh get togethers planned and I will try to attend.
Brian
Thanks again for your help. I know that this is the safest thing to do for the longevity of the engine, but I just look at all of the hoses and and electrical components and I get a little nervous about removing anything on the engine. I know this is probably a job that i will look back on and say it was easy, but I just want to make sure I have everything in order before I tackle it.
We communicated a bit last fall, but I know you are always helping people all of the world, but I live about 10 miles from you.
I am in Elizabeth Township.
I don't want to use "cheap" fuel, but the Pennzoiil Synth you mention is $13 / gallon less than Quick Silver Premium Plus at Wal Mart. Where in our area do you pick up the Pennzoil?
Hopefully we can meet up some time this boating season. Let me know if there are any Pittsburgh get togethers planned and I will try to attend.
Brian
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Hi Brian,
The Penzoil I'm burning can be bought at WalMart. Generally... I buy the more expensive oils... but since these engines were designed to run on TCw3 oils... and since it will burn A LOT of oil over the summer... I figured... "What the heck." So, after the rebuild... that's what I started to use.
Even though, pre-mix will be a pain... as you said... it's safe for the older engines.
Removing the pump isn't that hard. As I recall... it was small (8mm or 5/16") bolts, and you can get to them with a small open-end wrench.
I'm elbow deep in a couple spring projects... but after I'm done with them... if you need a hand... give me a yell.
Speaking of Pitt get-together's.... there is a local boating board that I'm also on. It's boatlocal.com . It use to be boatpittsburgh.com ... but the owners wanted to start to expand west on the Ohio river. Check over there for local events. Also... there are about 10~12 guys here... and we generally like to do something during the summer.
The Penzoil I'm burning can be bought at WalMart. Generally... I buy the more expensive oils... but since these engines were designed to run on TCw3 oils... and since it will burn A LOT of oil over the summer... I figured... "What the heck." So, after the rebuild... that's what I started to use.
Even though, pre-mix will be a pain... as you said... it's safe for the older engines.
Removing the pump isn't that hard. As I recall... it was small (8mm or 5/16") bolts, and you can get to them with a small open-end wrench.
I'm elbow deep in a couple spring projects... but after I'm done with them... if you need a hand... give me a yell.
Speaking of Pitt get-together's.... there is a local boating board that I'm also on. It's boatlocal.com . It use to be boatpittsburgh.com ... but the owners wanted to start to expand west on the Ohio river. Check over there for local events. Also... there are about 10~12 guys here... and we generally like to do something during the summer.
challenger01
Member
Doc,
Thanks for all of the info.
I hope to have a few hours on Sunday to look at the conversion.
I will study the manual and the pics / directions in the postings and see what I can do. If I run into a question I know you and the other guys on this forum are a great resource.
I will sign up for the other forums you mentioned as well. The past few years I did not have a great tow vehicle so I kept my boat in storage at the Yough Lake in Markleysburg on Rt 40. My wife and kids love the lake and they are not fans of the river so much, so most of the river trips are with friends that are docked around Pittsburgh. If there is a meet and greet at any point just post it and I will try to attend.
Thanks again,
Brian
Thanks for all of the info.
I hope to have a few hours on Sunday to look at the conversion.
I will study the manual and the pics / directions in the postings and see what I can do. If I run into a question I know you and the other guys on this forum are a great resource.
I will sign up for the other forums you mentioned as well. The past few years I did not have a great tow vehicle so I kept my boat in storage at the Yough Lake in Markleysburg on Rt 40. My wife and kids love the lake and they are not fans of the river so much, so most of the river trips are with friends that are docked around Pittsburgh. If there is a meet and greet at any point just post it and I will try to attend.
Thanks again,
Brian
Just wondering---- Has anyone tried the electric oil pump system? It eliminates gear failure worries and maintains variable oil delivery.
I am not selling, just wondering.
http://www.marinesolutionswi.com/index.htm
I am not selling, just wondering.
http://www.marinesolutionswi.com/index.htm
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