No Spark + Water Contamination(?) - 1998 Challenger 1800

[TurboMatt]

EDIT: I may have a 1997 model based off some pictures I've compared to online.

I am working on 1998 Challenger 1800 that I've had for awhile. I've run into several issues and will list
them.

Little history on the boat;
Sat for 3 years in a yard "kinda covered"
Sat with the engine cover/hood almost sealed (open about 1" at the front seal)
Both air intake covers removed

I bought the boat as I was told that it did run. However, after some testing today I can't imagine it has in awhile. I compression tested the starboard engine first and got 175psi on both cylinders and the engine sounds good while cranking. On the port engine, I got 180psi on the rear cylinder and the front locks the starter when trying to compression check. As well, there is a lot of milky material shooting from the front cylinder on the port engine while cranking. I'm a huge auto gearhead so this would typically mean water contamination to me. However, I wasn't sure if there is possible some water that leaked into the engine while it sat for so many years. I looked for a drain plug to drain the crank case but wasn't sure if this was possible. The port engine cranks slower as well but this has to be due to the milky debris.

Now, another issue. There is no spark on any of the engines which is why I imagine the boat was parked initially. The person that I got the boat from did give me a flash drive with the seadoo factory manual which I worked through today. We verified no spark by checking with new plugs installed into each plug wire and grounding the plug to the cylinder head(s) and visually checking for a spark/arc.

Did the following today;
Checked all fuses at the MPEM and behind the gauge cluster
While cranking the starboard engine, the Tach floats around 400rpm (not sure if that's normal)
Checked the main grounding area in the MPEM box in the engine compartment

Let me know what you guys/gals think. I'm on the fence about selling the boat as is.

Thanks
Matt

 

[parrothd]

Does it beep when you connect the lanyard?

I'd recheck the fuses in the mpem to make sure they're all good. I blew one of the fuses last year and it was labeled something like accessery or something like that so I ignored it, the engine would turn over but no spark..

 

[TurboMatt]

Yes, there is two beeps when I connect the lanyard. Sorry, should have mentioned that. When I put the shift lever in Forward or Reverse and hit the starter button I get 4 beeps as the manual says I should. When returning to neutral I hear one beep so all of that seems normal.

Regarding the MPEM, I may have a 1997 model boat. I uploaded a pic with the electrical box dropped down so show it's contents. From what I can tell, this is exactly the same as some of the 1997 model boats I've seen.

 

[CaptSteve]

To check the year, just look at the HIN (Hull ID Number) on the back. The last two digits are the year.

On these engines, there is no crankcase drain plug. If you have water in the crank, you have to pump it out.

What happens if you try to crank the engine with no plugs in. It should crank very fast since you have no compression. If it does not, check the battery and all connections, especially the grounds.

If you can not crank it with a spark plug in, you may be hydrolocked. You could have gas in the cylinder.

 

[TurboMatt]

To check the year, just look at the HIN (Hull ID Number) on the back. The last two digits are the year.

On these engines, there is no crankcase drain plug. If you have water in the crank, you have to pump it out.

What happens if you try to crank the engine with no plugs in. It should crank very fast since you have no compression. If it does not, check the battery and all connections, especially the grounds.

If you can not crank it with a spark plug in, you may be hydrolocked. You could have gas in the cylinder.

Is the HIN on the back of the boat on the exterior?

What is the proper way to pump the water out?

The starboard engine sounds great when cranking and has very even compression. The battery seems great and passed a load test at a local parts shop. Just to be safe, I ran it on a trickle charger all night before trying to crank. My worry with the engine with the milky mix is if there is some internal damage with the engine.

Is there a way to test the MPEM?

 

[griz400]

i know u keep sayin no spark, but man, 3 yrs of setting, have u taken all the old fuel out of it and put fresh gas in it, im sure it must be smellin like varnish if not, and that fuel will never ignite

 

[TurboMatt]

i know u keep sayin no spark, but man, 3 yrs of setting, have u taken all the old fuel out of it and put fresh gas in it, im sure it must be smellin like varnish if not, and that fuel will never ignite

I haven't tried to start it, nor was that my plan. All of the fuel has been pumped out. As well, I removed the oil tank completely and cleaned it in my parts washer. At this point, I'm simply going through steps to eventually start the engines. As a side note, I'm not the type of person who would cross my fingers, hope it starts and drop it in the water.

Going back to the no spark. As I stated, we have the plugs out and grounded to the cylinder head(s). There is no spark/arc at the spark plugs with them removed from the engine.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Check the coil and the plug wires.

 

[howie099]

get the manual for the boat from here or somewhere else it will help you out a ton. It could be the MPEM, check all the fuses for the MPEM. The manual goes over some testing of the MPEM and the rest of the electrical system. Since you here the 2 beeps though that is good from the MPEM. Could be just bad coils like Seadoobuddy said also. The manual goes over all the testing.

 

[TurboMatt]

get the manual for the boat from here or somewhere else it will help you out a ton. It could be the MPEM, check all the fuses for the MPEM. The manual goes over some testing of the MPEM and the rest of the electrical system. Since you here the 2 beeps though that is good from the MPEM. Could be just bad coils like Seadoobuddy said also. The manual goes over all the testing.

I just found the right manual via google and I'm reading it now. The MPEM in this manual (1997 model) matches mine exactly. I'm reading through some tests now on how to test things. First thing mentioned is to unhook the RPM limiter wires from the magneto's. If there is spark after that, the MPEM is bad....according to the manual.

 

[griz400]

check that other gound tommorrow like i suggested and let me know tommorrow, some people leave off when changing battery

 

[TurboMatt]

check that other gound tommorrow like i suggested and let me know tommorrow, some people leave off when changing battery

I'm absolutely sure I only hooked one large cable to the battery. If there was another one close by, I missed it. The engine bay is VERY dirty as the oil tank had a crack in it which leaked oil all over. I'll be sure to check that and report back.

 

[parrothd]

I'm not 100% positive, but think there's a smaller ground wire that connects to the bat, along with multiple Reds, some with fuses in them.

 

[RFoster130]

Yeah there should be a smaller ground. If you are getting the beeps, you know the MPEM is good. Just need to verify spark to the plugs next. Then i would go through the fuel system.

 

[TurboMatt]

Just finished a few hours of troubleshooting with some success. I ended up hooking a timing light to the plug wires while checking for ignition as it proved to be FAR easier than looking for arc. Looked all over the battery tray area and did not see any other wires. Nearly all the wiring is still supported by the factory hangers so it doesn't look like it has been messed with.

Found a few issues after referencing the manual;
Positive/Ground wires were switched at the coils (wow...)
One of the red wires at the voltage rectifiers was loose

Tried the Port engine first and viola, we have spark. This is the engine that is still spitting tons of crap from the cylinders. If anyone knows the proper way to flush the crank case please post it up. Just hope I don't have to pull the engine.

Tried for spark on the starboard side, nothing. Tried to switch the MPEM outputs to each coil to test each coil, neither have spark. However when testing both coils from the port engine, we have spark on either coil.

Checked the connector at the starboard trigger coil and it was nice and snug.

From what I could tell at this point, everything works fine/normal for the port engine. So, I unhooked the trigger coil harness plug from the port engine and hooked it to the starboard engine. Cranked the engine and still no spark. By doing this, I imagine that should elimate everything but the actual trigger wheel and/or pickup on the starboard engine but I'm not sure if the MPEM ties the start/stop button to the engine and then will not allow spark...hope that makes sense.

That's where we stand for now.

 

[howie099]

Good thing is your MPEM should be good since the one engine works. That sucks that people take stuff apart and than put it back wrong. Rather have the stuff not put back together.

 

[parrothd]

Take the plugs out and crank the starter until all of it comes out, hold towel over the spark holes to catch all the junk. Then start it and run it to clear out the rest and fog it when done.

Remove the flywheel cover and check the pickup, that's a common break part. You can move the engine backwards and place a brick/2x4 under the front to get access to the cover. You'll need to remove the jet pump(remove the clip first)..

 

[TurboMatt]

Good thing is your MPEM should be good since the one engine works. That sucks that people take stuff apart and than put it back wrong. Rather have the stuff not put back together.

So if one engine fires the MPEM is probably good? I wasn't sure how the ignition was tied together inside the mystery box.

 

[TurboMatt]

Take the plugs out and crank the starter until all of it comes out, hold towel over the spark holes to catch all the junk. Then start it and run it to clear out the rest and fog it when done.

Remove the flywheel cover and check the pickup, that's a common break part. You can move the engine backwards and place a brick/2x4 under the front to get access to the cover. You'll need to remove the jet pump(remove the clip first)..

I have cranked it several times, there is A LOT of junk coming out. Very milky and nasty. From what I can tell, nobody was really messing with the port engine. I have a feeling water drained into it as the hood latch area would allow water to drain right into the intake which had the cover removed. I have a feeling the engine will need to come out.

That's good to know about the pickup. Anyone know if it's possible to test it while still installed? I would imagine I may need a meter of somesort to check for a sine wave? I don't see anything in the manual as far as using a DVOM to check while cranking.

 

[parrothd]

I have cranked it several times, there is A LOT of junk coming out. Very milky and nasty. From what I can tell, nobody was really messing with the port engine. I have a feeling water drained into it as the hood latch area would allow water to drain right into the intake which had the cover removed. I have a feeling the engine will need to come out.

That's good to know about the pickup. Anyone know if it's possible to test it while still installed? I would imagine I may need a meter of somesort to check for a sine wave? I don't see anything in the manual as far as using a DVOM to check while cranking.

The bracket that holds it breaks off.. Sure it's not oil? The seals on the crank can go bad which fills the lower case full of oil.

 

[TurboMatt]

Ok, even more progress! I had an idea that the MPEM 'may' not allow ignition when when moving the trigger harness to the wrong engine. So, I switched the starter solenoid plugs in the electrical box. Hit the port start button which now rotated the starboard engine. So, the entire electrical system was moved to the starboard engine using the port wiring. Hit the button to check for spark while monitoring with the timing light and the engine actually started. It ran for 5 seconds then killed it with the start/stop button.

So, now....more questions. Looks like the trigger pickup is fine. I need to switch everything back to the proper wiring and try to swap the voltage rectifier and see if that works.

Anyone know if it matters how the yellow wires hook to the voltage rectifiers?

 

[bigtexan99]

Congratulations on your progress so far! Reminds me of my saga and why my boat is named "Crossed Wires"!! The advantage of having people put stuff back together wrong is that you can then buy it from them very cheaply.

One crossed wire from the battery to the starter solenoid and I got my boat for $4300 less than it was worth.... :lol: I've never had the heart to tell the seller.

 

[TurboMatt]

Thanks, feels a bit rewarding at this point. While this small step has been great, I still have a bunch left to do. I still need to figure out where the wiring problem is with the actual wiring for the starboard engine. I'm hoping there is an issue with the voltage rectifier but we shall. It will be a couple of days before I can work on the boat again.

Anyone know if the wiring for the voltage recifiers matters regarding the AC1/AC2 wiring from the trigger?

 

[Dennis]

It doesn't matter where the yellow wires plug into as long as it is yellow to yellow.

 

[TurboMatt]

It doesn't matter where the yellow wires plug into as long as it is yellow to yellow.

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I'm just dealing with a bad rectifier as those are pretty cheap. I'll know in a few days.