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[doodguy]

Hey all; My name is Michael. I am new to this forum and totally new to boating.

That said I am highly debating buying a used sea doo.

One I am looking at is a 2004 Sea-Doo le-di and curious if this is a fast, fun boat. Also curious as to how fuel consumption/maintenance works.

I need all the information/advise you can provide, so please do share your experience with these boats, if there is a year that is better than others that I should hold out for, is the 2004 a specific trouble year, etc.

Thank you very much in advance.

 

[djredman99]

Welcome to the forum doodguy.

If you have questions, it is best to ask them in the appropriate forum.

Off the top of my head, you have a 951 DI motor in that boat. A guess on fuel consumption would be GPH (gallons per hour) in the mid-to-high teens. That is base on the engine and weight of the boat. You will have a 22-24 gallon tank I believe.

You can download an operators guide for the boat from the sea-doo web site under owners center. There you will find all the maintenace requirements necessary for the boat as well as specs on the boat.

As a final note, the 951 DI motors are great runner while they run...once they start to have problems, they are the most costly of the 2-strokes to fix/repair and often difficult to diagnose problems. This is all due to the DI (direct injection) system.

 

[doodguy]

thank you dj That is the EXACT info I was hoping for.

That said, sounds like I wanna steer clear of that boat. Do you have any recommendations on something I should look for comparable? I want a boat like this that runs well low as poss. maintenance, and of course the more the better on fuel efficiency.

Just looking for which type of boat/direction I should be looking in is what I'm trying to say. I just want something fun to put around the island in here in FL that I won't have to over stress about, and looking for some owners experiences on what boats you guys have/love/recommend.

 

[dsw222]

Are you looking for something older and cheaper? If so, you should be happy with a speedster/sportser with the 787 engine(s). There is still maintenance but they are cheaper to repair than the 951.

If you decide to go newer, based on your posts I would stay to away from supercharged. You would have to have the supercharger rebuilt and it sounds like a pain for a person who is looking for minimal maintenance. So looks for a boat with the 155hp 4 stroke engine (if you want a newer model year)

 

[doodguy]

Are you looking for something older and cheaper? If so, you should be happy with a speedster/sportser with the 787 engine(s). There is still maintenance but they are cheaper to repair than the 951.

If you decide to go newer, based on your posts I would stay to away from supercharged. You would have to have the supercharger rebuilt and it sounds like a pain for a person who is looking for minimal maintenance. So looks for a boat with the 155hp 4 stroke engine (if you want a newer model year)

Yes, I am looking for cheaper, but not necessarily older, just affordable. Also, other than craigslist any thoughts on where to shop around for something local to tampa, FL?

Also, just curious, why do you say the supercharger would have to be rebuilt?

 

[dsw222]

Yes, I am looking for cheaper, but not necessarily older, just affordable. Also, other than craigslist any thoughts on where to shop around for something local to tampa, FL?

Also, just curious, why do you say the supercharger would have to be rebuilt?

I found mine on craigslist... thats probably the best place to look. Maybe try an online boat classified system like boattrader or iboats

The supercharger has to be rebuilt because its spinning at 42,000 RPM so a lot of wear is going on with the bearings, clutch washers, etc. I believe the maintenance record calls for this service every 100 hours

 

[djredman99]

So looks for a boat with the 155hp 4 stroke engine (if you want a newer model year)

To add to this, a boat with a single 155hp 4-stroke (non-supercharger) will offer a nice blend of speed, affordability, lower gas cost, and reliability in a newer model ski.

The 4-strokes are more reliable and more maintenance free than the older 2-strokes, but if something does go wrong, the 4-strokes can be more costly.

Are you a DIY'er or plan to take the boat to a shop for all maintenance?

 

[doodguy]

To add to this, a boat with a single 155hp 4-stroke (non-supercharger) will offer a nice blend of speed, affordability, lower gas cost, and reliability in a newer model ski.

The 4-strokes are more reliable and more maintenance free than the older 2-strokes, but if something does go wrong, the 4-strokes can be more costly.

Are you a DIY'er or plan to take the boat to a shop for all maintenance?

I'm a DIY'er. Honestly have never been to a mechanic other than discount oil change days/coupons (easier that way) for my cars.

And am I hearing you guys right that the 2004 le-di is a 4 stroke? Or is that a 2 stroke? Sounds like I wanna go the 4-stroke route.

Also; something turning me away from possibly even buying a boat is the fact of GPH. What do you guys *TYPICALLY* pay to fill your tank these days? Average tank is 20 gallons right? You put 87 in? How long does that last you generally?

Do you fill up every time you go out? Gas last a few trips out? Of course I understand the answer is all inclusive of how long you drive how hard what you do etc. I'm just saying an average weekend out with the family say pull a water tube around for a few hours, call it a day. Is that a $60 day?

 

[dsw222]

I'm a DIY'er. Honestly have never been to a mechanic other than discount oil change days/coupons (easier that way) for my cars.

And am I hearing you guys right that the 2004 le-di is a 4 stroke? Or is that a 2 stroke? Sounds like I wanna go the 4-stroke route.

Also; something turning me away from possibly even buying a boat is the fact of GPH. What do you guys *TYPICALLY* pay to fill your tank these days? Average tank is 20 gallons right? You put 87 in? How long does that last you generally?

Do you fill up every time you go out? Gas last a few trips out? Of course I understand the answer is all inclusive of how long you drive how hard what you do etc. I'm just saying an average weekend out with the family say pull a water tube around for a few hours, call it a day. Is that a $60 day?

No, the 951 engine is a 2 stroke.

I have twin 787 two-stroke engines (110hp each) in my 18 foot challenger 1800 (1997) and the manual states that it gets 25 gallons per hour of fuel consumption at wide open throttle, and I have a 40 gallon tank. But that's worst case... A tank of gas would last me a day of driving around as long as I drop anchor for a bit to have lunch, etc.

Another thing to keep in mind is that 2 strokes also burn oil along with gas. I think a fair estimate would be approx 1 tank of gas burns a little under a gallon of oil (depends on how much you idle etc, but 40:1 is a fair estimate). So that means a tank of gas would be 40*$3 plus approx $40 for a gallon of oil. So it would cost about $160 to use an entire tank of gas (that would theoretically only let my boat run for 1.5 hours at wide open throttle).

Now those are worst case numbers... You can get oil cheaper (TheChad can gladly tell you about Mystik brand) and not all boats are twin engine. Plus the 4 strokes only burn gas (no oil) and have better fuel economy. I haven't used a seadoo 4 stroke though, so I don't know much about them.

But long story short... I can get a whole days worth of "boating" (zipping around, anchoring to chill and listen to the radio, dock for lunch, etc) on a tank of gas.

And I've been using 89 octane but might switch to premium because all I can find is gas with ethanol in it so I might be safer with higher octane

 

[djredman99]

And am I hearing you guys right that the 2004 le-di is a 4 stroke? Or is that a 2 stroke? Sounds like I wanna go the 4-stroke route.

It is a 2-stroke. It is a Rotax 951cc 2-stroke Direct Injected motor.

The 2-Strokes are easier to work on and cost less overall from a maintenance standpoint but are more "finiky" than the 4-strokes. No matter how you look at this, you will have many tradeoffs that you have to deal with.

Less speed - less gas
More speed - more gas
2 stroke - more maintenance, less cost, less reliability, easier for a DIY'er
4 stroke - less maintenace, more cost, more reliability, harder for a DIY'er

Also; something turning me away from possibly even buying a boat is the fact of GPH. What do you guys *TYPICALLY* pay to fill your tank these days? Average tank is 20 gallons right? You put 87 in? How long does that last you generally?

Do you fill up every time you go out? Gas last a few trips out? Of course I understand the answer is all inclusive of how long you drive how hard what you do etc. I'm just saying an average weekend out with the family say pull a water tube around for a few hours, call it a day. Is that a $60 day?

Well, if you get a small boat like the Sportster, you will get close to PWC gas usage as they are small boats. Obviously, the more people you pack on (4-5 max) and gear, your GPH will drop. The stat I gave above with a GPH in the mid-teens for the LE DI boat, that is at a constant WOT (wide open throttle) which is unrealistic for typical riding.

Optimum cruising speed for the boat will have your GPH around 5-7 GPH, most likely somehere around 25-30 MPH. I will try to come up with the specifics for a couple boats for you. Coincidientally, I am currently collecting this info for PWCs. That will get you over 3 hours of constant ~30 MPH speed. Again, unless you are traveling a great distance, this is not realistic as you slow for wake zones, docking, picking tube riders out of the water , etc.

Ultimately, your driving habits are going to determine how far your gas goes.

Also, if you are really turned off by the boats gas usage, the PWCs can carry 3 passengers, are loads of fun, and have much better fuel economy, although the high end models still will suck down the gas, although at 15-20 MPH faster than the boats.

As far as octane, 87 for you lower end, but the high performance 4-strokes are recommended at 91.

 

[djredman99]

Go Team Pittsburgh!!

:cheers:

 

[doodguy]

It is a 2-stroke. It is a Rotax 951cc 2-stroke Direct Injected motor.

The 2-Strokes are easier to work on and cost less overall from a maintenance standpoint but are more "finiky" than the 4-strokes. No matter how you look at this, you will have many tradeoffs that you have to deal with.

Less speed - less gas
More speed - more gas
2 stroke - more maintenance, less cost, less reliability, easier for a DIY'er
4 stroke - less maintenace, more cost, more reliability, harder for a DIY'er



Well, if you get a small boat like the Sportster, you will get close to PWC gas usage as they are small boats. Obviously, the more people you pack on (4-5 max) and gear, your GPH will drop. The stat I gave above with a GPH in the mid-teens for the LE DI boat, that is at a constant WOT (wide open throttle) which is unrealistic for typical riding.

Optimum cruising speed for the boat will have your GPH around 5-7 GPH, most likely somehere around 25-30 MPH. I will try to come up with the specifics for a couple boats for you. Coincidientally, I am currently collecting this info for PWCs. That will get you over 3 hours of constant ~30 MPH speed. Again, unless you are traveling a great distance, this is not realistic as you slow for wake zones, docking, picking tube riders out of the water , etc.

Ultimately, your driving habits are going to determine how far your gas goes.

Also, if you are really turned off by the boats gas usage, the PWCs can carry 3 passengers, are loads of fun, and have much better fuel economy, although the high end models still will suck down the gas, although at 15-20 MPH faster than the boats.

As far as octane, 87 for you lower end, but the high performance 4-strokes are recommended at 91.

As far as PWC you are referring to Jet Ski right? I have thought about getting a jet ski but am getting scuba certified here in the next few weeks and would like to be able to go out with my gear and jump in the water for a bit.

That said, I think these boats are the way to go, I just don't want to spend $160 a day going out. $20 or $30 I can see, and I'm sure you guys don't wanna hear me whine. I'm just looking at overall cost of gas to trailer the boat to the dock (They are everywhere here in FL) and then some fun out on the water, etc. I really want to do this but just don't know how cost effective it really is, much like most of us would probably love to own our own twin engine plane, but not realistic.

I make a steady income, just trying to do my research of all involved to make buying a boat like this something I could/should do.

I REALLY appreciate all the information you guys are providing btw and can't thank you enough.

 

[djredman99]

Well, keep in mind, dsw222 has TWO engines in his boat.

I just looked this up. The 155 HP 4-stroke Rotax Sportster will burn 10.8 GPH at WOT. It has a 23 gallon tank. So that is ~2 hours going a constant full speed. Based on this, I would give you a rough estimate of 4 GPH traveling at a cruise speed (25-30 MPH). that is nearly 6 hours going a constant speed.

As you can see, the low end 4-stroke boats are very fuel efficient. You would spend ~$70 in gas and get probably 2-3 days worth of boating.

Remember the trade off though, your top speed is somewhere around the 48 MPH range.

AND PWC = Personal Water Craft...yes a jet ski.

 

[doodguy]

Well, keep in mind, dsw222 has TWO engines in his boat.

I just looked this up. The 155 HP 4-stroke Rotax Sportster will burn 10.8 GPH at WOT. It has a 23 gallon tank. So that is ~2 hours going a constant full speed. Based on this, I would give you a rough estimate of 4 GPH traveling at a cruise speed (25-30 MPH). that is nearly 6 hours going a constant speed.

As you can see, the low end 4-stroke boats are very fuel efficient. You would spend ~$70 in gas and get probably 2-3 days worth of boating.

Remember the trade off though, your top speed is somewhere around the 48 MPH range.

AND PWC = Personal Water Craft...yes a jet ski.

I don't care so much about the top speed, I enjoy the acceleration. Is top speed something I should really look at?

 

[djredman99]

I don't care so much about the top speed, I enjoy the acceleration. Is top speed something I should really look at?

No, not if it is not important to you. I just mention it because a lot of people like the thrill of going fast, including myself. It is safe to say that more speed = more money. So if it is not important to you, then all the better when you figure out your overall cost of owning a boat.

 

[TheChad]

Okay, I quickly skimmed threw this thread, but I thought the OP was asking about a jet ski, then the thread went off on the seadoo boats..

So I don't know what he's looking for, but as has been suggested, I whatever it is you are looking at, I would make sure to buy one with a 787 carbed engine, stay away from the DI & RFI engines.

The 787 is by far the best engine for speed, reliability, inexpensive maintaince. A 717 engine is also a great engine but is not as fast or as smooth as the 787. I would stay away from any of the ski's that have a 951 engine.

(Since this is posted in the PWC forum)..

As for model, if you are looking for a PWC (Jet Ski), which model will depend on what exactly you want to do with it, 2 seater, 3 seater, sport riding, crusing, etc. The 96-97 GSX is one of the best all-around ski's in a 2 seater. The XP is faster but alot less stable, the GTX is a great 3-seater model.

If you are looking at the jet boats, I can't offer you any help except the suggestion of the 787 carbed engine. But personally except for maybe sport skiing I don't see any purpose in buying a jet boat (Other then a sportster), they are much less efficient then an outboard or inboard/outboard, much more expensive, much more maintaince, etc, etc..

-TheChad

 

[RFoster130]

I think a single engine boat would suit your needs nicely. Probably an older 2 stroke would be cheaper to find and cheaper to work on. You can find them in decent to good shape for around $3000. Fuel economy is decent in them.

 

[dsw222]

Okay, I quickly skimmed threw this thread, but I thought the OP was asking about a jet ski, then the thread went off on the seadoo boats..

He mentioned in the first post that he's looking at a "2004 Sea Doo LE DI"... he forgot to mention that the "LE DI" is a variation of the Sportster boat.

I totally agree about going for a boat with 787. I don't have any experience with the 951 but it seems slightly more expensive to repair (based on parts prices I've seen compared to 787), and a few people mention that they don't last as long.

The only additional maintenance of a 787 over the 717 is the RAVE valves, but those are really easy to clean, so it shouldn't be an issue.

OP - How many people are you looking to take out on your boat? Just you and a girlfriend/wife, a whole family, a bunch of friends, etc? We could help you narrow down which models you might want to look into...

 

[doodguy]

He mentioned in the first post that he's looking at a "2004 Sea Doo LE DI"... he forgot to mention that the "LE DI" is a variation of the Sportster boat.

I totally agree about going for a boat with 787. I don't have any experience with the 951 but it seems slightly more expensive to repair (based on parts prices I've seen compared to 787), and a few people mention that they don't last as long.

The only additional maintenance of a 787 over the 717 is the RAVE valves, but those are really easy to clean, so it shouldn't be an issue.

OP - How many people are you looking to take out on your boat? Just you and a girlfriend/wife, a whole family, a bunch of friends, etc? We could help you narrow down which models you might want to look into...

LOL I iddn't know that the LE DI is a variation of the sportster boat. I don't even know what your referring to (But trying to learn).

As far as how many people? 5-7 people.

Thanks so much for your help everybody. I know new people learning the mundane things can be a pain to deal with. Just trying to jump into the boating world. I lost my parents to cancer, but growing up we use to go on the boat every weekend.

I want to share those same joys with my son but also want something sporty is why I was looking at the sea doo sportsters.

 

[djredman99]

As far as how many people? 5-7 people.

Well, the sportsters/speedsters are the smallest amongst the seadoo boats. With the newer models, the speedster 200 will hold 7 (crowded) and the speedster 150 will hold 4. The older models hold 4 or 5 people.

That newer speedster 200 will cost you quite a bit up front to get however. What are you thinking in terms of initial costs for the boat?

Also, all of the seadoo boats are "sporty", even the Islandia.

 

[dsw222]

Well, the sportsters/speedsters are the smallest amongst the seadoo boats. With the newer models, the speedster 200 will hold 7 (crowded) and the speedster 150 will hold 4. The older models hold 4 or 5 people.

That newer speedster 200 will cost you quite a bit up front to get however. What are you thinking in terms of initial costs for the boat?

Also, all of the seadoo boats are "sporty", even the Islandia.

I can't see even 5 people on a single engine 14 foot sportster/speedster... 5 people on the 16 foot 1998 speedster would be pushing the weight limit (unless some of the people are children). And he wants 5-7 people, so I think the 14/16 foot sportster/speesters are out...

If he could find a good running Challenger 1800 with the Merc engine, I bet he would be happy with the capacity, fuel economy, and dependability. The only problem obviously is cost to repair... but it would still be a LOT cheaper than buying a new $40,000 Speedster 200

Islandia is a possibility... just saw on on CL here in the 'burgh listed for 3500 with the merc engine but it says "runs poorly". Might just be carb issues but i would definitely diagnose before buying.

For 4 stroke... what about a Challenger 180 or 210? I'm not familiar with the early model years of those (I'm guessing around 2004), but it might be worth looking into. They're cheaper than the Speedster 200's

 

[doodguy]

For cost I'm looking in the ballpark of $5000

 

[dsw222]

For cost I'm looking in the ballpark of $5000

I'm pretty sure you won't find a 4stroke jetboat that seats 5-7 for around $5000, but maybe if someone is desperate to sell (although its probably a long shot). I bet you could get a single four stroke engined 4-seater for maybe 6000-7000.

It looks like prices in FL are a bit higher than up here this time of year. I'll post some links for florida

I found this one by you, but its $7000 and only seats 4
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hdo/boa/2031608009.html

You can get a boat with 2 stroke engine(s) for under $5000, but the gas consumption is going to be worse.

These ones have the twin 717cc engines, which is better fuel consumption than having the twin 787's, but still not great because you have 2 engines. They will seat 4-5.
http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/1989661718.html
http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/boa/2039910483.html

This is what I have. These will seat up to 7 (5 comfortably, 6 is good too if someone likes the front seat... 7 if kids are up front). BUT the fuel consumption isn't good, as i noted above
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/boa/2042307654.html
http://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/2060608019.html

 

[doodguy]

What about these?

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/2064166423.html

OR

http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/boa/2063159609.html

 

[dsw222]

What about these?

http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/2064166423.html

OR

http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/boa/2063159609.html

The first link has the twin 787 engines... so if you were going full throttle, you would burn 40 gallons of gas and about 1 gallon of oil in an hour and a half. That means to run it full throttle for an hour and a half, it would cost about $160. BUT that's at wide open throttle... if you just putt around all day and go tubing a bit here and there, the gas consumption is better, but not *good*. That's the boat I have, and I love it. I like the seating arrangement and how it can carry 7 people if needed, but its plenty of room for me and a few friends. As long as the gas mileage isn't a big deal for you, that would be a great boat. But it definitely isn't cheap to run.

The second one... I don't trust the ad. He says its "195 hp", but SeaDoo never made a boat with 195hp. The ad should read "130 hp" because that boat has the 951cc 2 stroke, which we talked about earlier in the thread (not as dependable as the 787 and cost a bit more to repair). Either the guy doesn't know what he's talking about, or he's false advertising. I would avoid that one.