new here, new to boating, new to me old 97 challenger. Questions

[SYKO]

Ive been on some sort of motorized machine since little, raced flat track on atc's and atv's still race off road atv's and ride a triumph Daytona 955 every day....But now... I got a boat:facepalm: lol Ive been wanting to get my feet wet for years and have had my eyes set on any seadoo that was within reason for me to get. I deal was struck and Im picking up a 97 Challenger single engine model, Ill start with little more than $200 in the boat. Story goes PO lost the keys in 2000 and it sat ever since under a lean too!!! So the seats are shot, no biggie... but needs a key and Im guessing a big check list of things to check. Ive been reading a bunch on here and I have yet to understand some of the components in and on this boat so bare with me, if you tell me to check something.... its a good possibility that I wont have a clue as to what your talking about so help me out on that. I still have to pick the boat up as its not local, so I got a week ahead of me yet to make my checklist up, As a long time 2stroke rider/racer just to make my life easier Ill just do premix as Ive always got that around for my atvs. Any way Im really stoked about getting out on the water with this unit, I don't plan on making it this summer but next year im all in! so Ill have plenty of time to get it squared away. Plus I have a disabled daughter and were all in agreement that some water sports will be right up her alley:thumbsup:







comments, sugestions, opinions are all welcomed!!!

 

[Dr Honda]

Congrats on the toy.

To start... We never recommend removing the oil injection on these boats. The pump, itself, never fails. Also... these are rotary valve engines...so the center gears need oil from the oil tank. SO... if you go pre-mix... you still need to leave the tank in the hull, and keep some oil in it.

My advice is to drain the oil, replace the filter, replace the hoses... and then bleed the system for a trouble free, low smoke engine.


As far as your list... it's going to be the normal "Bringing a toy out of hibernation". So...

1) drain the fuel, and oil. Re fill with clean.
2) replace the filters
3) remove, and clean the carbs
4) change the spark plugs
5) put in a new battery.
6) roll the engine over by hand, to make sure it's not rusted up. (put in some fogging oil, or 2-stoke oil since it's probably dry)


OK... OIL: the seadoo/rotax engines need an API-TC oil. And, since your engine has RAVE valves (exhust valves) you need synthetic. DO NOT USE A TC-w3 oil !!!!! It's a slow death to these engines.


POWER: DO NOT try to jump start the boat, or try to start it hooked to a charger !!! A surge can destroy the very expensive computer. (MPEM) AND... the one for that boat doesn't exist anymore. AND... be 100% sure on the polarity. If you hook the battery up backward... it will kill it too.



SO... I was going to look at this boat... I would take a battery with me, and hook it up. (or take a jump pack) Then... push the start button. The gauges should come to life for 30 seconds or so. It's not a real test... but it will tell you if the MPEM is at least functioning.


Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

 

[SYKO]

Dr Honda, thanx for the info> ive read up enough to know not to remove the oil injection pump for the valves to still be properly oiled. And I see jump starting isn't good either, I know im not supposed to jump off an atv either as the additional amps will fry the electriclal system. Will the start test work even if I don't have the key for it? I can take a jump pack with me no problem.

 

[Dr Honda]

Yes. The engine isn't going to start... or even try to start without the lanyard on it... but pushing the start button should "Wake it up" and put power to the system. They do that so you can check the fuel level, with out needing the lanyard.


If nothing happens... then check the fuses. But if you get nothing out of it... it's easy for someone to dump a problemed boat by saying.... "I lost the keys." My last project boat, that I was going to drive a long distance... I sent the guy a few $$$ to hold it, and then I told him to go have a new lanyard programmed. I don't mind projects, but the older boat computers aren't easy to find anymore. (And they are expensive)

Look at it this way... if you buy it... you will need the lanayrd made anyway. So tell him you will pay for the new one. And... have him go have it done, before driving out to pick it up.

 

[SYKO]

how much does that usualy cost? honestly im not to worried Im actually expecting way more wrong then what has been told, and im ok with that. Even as far as a computer and engine etc etc... Im just crossing my fingers hoping for the very few and far between honest boat owners. lol.... but not getting my hopes up.

 

[SYKO]

ok I know this is jumping ahead, but what will I be able to do with this little boat? Im hoping to pull a small tube and possibly knee board... is that going to happen?

 

[Clirry]

Yep, it gonna be happen... I did tubing, wakeboarding and kneeboarding on my 96 challenger.

 

[Dr Honda]

That boat has plenty of poop to do any regular watersports. I had a single engine Sportster, and I could pull my nephew on a wake board.

With that said... a single rider tube will work better than something for multiple riders.

 

[SYKO]

awesome guys!!! im so stoked about this boat its about to drive me insane. Ive read all the horror stories about the problems on these and im ready to tackle all those problems full force so I can enjoy this boat to its full potential next summer. My dream is to own a 2007-08 challenger, that's the one I fell in love with and one day Ill have one... right now...baby steps...

 

[Dr Honda]

There shouldn't be any "Horror Stories" on these boats. Realistically... they are very reliable. The issue now is, they were relatively inexpensive, and they were bought by people who didn't take care of them. Couple that to them being +15 years old... and they will need love.


If you address everything now... you will have a fun, perfectly reliable boat for years to come.

 

[SYKO]

yea the horror stories are just the possible problems, Im amasing a large list of things to go through. I pretty aware about reliability, and that not taking care of something properly will result in failure. I got a 83 Honda atc 250R that has at least 100K hours on it... never been torn down or anything removed from the engine for any type work always starts on first or second kick... that's because its been taken care of.

got some more pics as it sits now, ill be picking it up sunday

 

[SYKO]

new pics up, upholstery is obvious... but you guys feel free to pick it over and tell me what you can see in the photos

 

[Dr Honda]

How much$$ ????


I've seen worse. Heck... I've rebuilt worse.

From the pics... I don't think that engine was ever apart. If it's not rusted... it may run. Once you get it... take out the sparkplugs, and remove the gray cover behind the engine... and turn the PTO (little flywheel) by hand. If it's smooth, and the sparkplugs aren't crushed... try to start it. (after you get fresh fluids in it)


The big thing is... it's complete. So, the rest is easy.

 

[Dr Honda]

ACTUALLY.......


I JUST NOTICED SOMETHING......


In the picture showing the helm.... the start/stop button... and the lanyard post is missing. (Red flag)

Then, in the picture with the engine... there are some wires hanging..... those should be in the "Gray Box" that holds all the electronics. I can't see if that box is there.... but I'm going to guess someone swiped all the expensive electronics.

Ask the seller... POINT BLANK... Is the electronics box mounted on to the hull, just behind the rear seat??? And, are all the parts in it?


If it's not there.... then that needs to be a VERY cheap project.

Basically... that boat MPEM is no longer available. So... to get it running... you will need an entire gray box out of something like a 1996 XP, or GTX. It's not going to be 100% compatible... but you can wire it up, and make it work.

 

[SYKO]

as it sits ill have $100 + fuel for pickup (150 mile round trip) but offset by $50 because I got some seats im selling from my 62 continental along the way so I figure $200 total when I back it in under the shop.

It dosnt have a key for it that's my first concern I have to address, but I will see if the engine turns over. The battery is also nearly new

 

[Dr Honda]

It's cheap enough... but did you see my other post above?

 

[Guest_User]

even if the boat is for free, your in for a huge headache without the right electronics in that boat... like the Doc said, you can wire it up to run from a donor ski/harness, but we`re talking a lot of work and doing it right. If your into wiring then cool, if not, then pass on this one...

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

This might be a good time to ask if MPEM alternatives are possible?

 

[rjcress]

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It looks like the MPEM cover is sitting on the floor below the steering wheel. Will be interested to hear whether the box is there or not.
Personally, if the MPEM is missing or known to be non-functional and I could get that boat for $200, I would likely do it and part it out.

I don't think I would want to take an engine of unknown history and condition and try to mate another MPEM or an MPEM alternative to it. If I knew it ran, and ran well, then the risk would be less. But not knowing anything about the condition of the engine, jet pump, or any other electronics... even at $200 that looks like too much risk for me.

So, if you DO get the boat to part out, let me know. I have a couple of parts I'm looking for:
White front seat
Forward fuse block


If the MPEM box is in and connected, then you can simulate pressing the start button (push button momentary switch) by touching the two start switch wires together... after a good battery has been connected, of course.

 

[SYKO]

1962 Lincoln continental on a 99 towncar chassis.... wiring? pfffttt!!! yea I know wiring projects lol

unfortunately the guy im getting it from isn't the original owner so he knows very little, Ive already looked into the MPEN possibility, and also im not planning on trying to get this boat going anytime soon. Im ok spending 1-2k on this project wich I believe is reasonable. If it starts surpassing that point I will pull the plug if I cant see the end in sight close enough.

Like I said im starting off with roughly 150-200 in the boat once I return with it, Ive lost more than that accidently ha! so we will go from there. Of course with the help of you guys im sure I can get it all going...

Are there custom swaps on these boats? like later model engines and electrics? different types? etc etc? im new to boats and this. Its been common practice to have motor swaps in our off road race machines... but like I said new to this.

Its all money and in the end we cant leave with it!

 

[Guest_User]

1962 Lincoln continental on a 99 towncar chassis.... wiring? pfffttt!!! yea I know wiring projects lol

unfortunately the guy im getting it from isn't the original owner so he knows very little, Ive already looked into the MPEN possibility, and also im not planning on trying to get this boat going anytime soon. Im ok spending 1-2k on this project wich I believe is reasonable. If it starts surpassing that point I will pull the plug if I cant see the end in sight close enough.

Like I said im starting off with roughly 150-200 in the boat once I return with it, Ive lost more than that accidently ha! so we will go from there. Of course with the help of you guys im sure I can get it all going...

Are there custom swaps on these boats? like later model engines and electrics? different types? etc etc? im new to boats and this. Its been common practice to have motor swaps in our off road race machines... but like I said new to this.

Its all money and in the end we cant leave with it!

ahahaha, awesome car! I love projects like that, we would get along perfectly!!!

The first thing I would look for is that the wiring/MPEM is all there, if not, then source a used jetski for the swap/electrics. if you use the complete ski harness and treat the boat as if it were a ski, I`d see no problems with making up what you need by lengthening any wires...
just make sure you have a good known DESS key from the donor hull...

engine work is cake after that, the important part is that you have a safety start device/dess/ignition to fire up an engine...
the rest can be triggered independently ie Bilge pump circuits, blowers, lighting etc with a blue sea fuse panel of 6 or 12 circuits...

did someone say wiring , hahahahahhaa, hahahahaha

and project restomods! bring it baby!!!:rofl:

 

[rjcress]

Im ok spending 1-2k on this project wich I believe is reasonable. If it starts surpassing that point I will pull the plug if I cant see the end in sight close enough.

Only $1k-$2k to spend... lol
new MPEM will be around $700-800... if you can find one
if the engine needs rebuilt, add about $900
if the jet pump needs rebuilt, add at least $100, if you do it yourself and have most of the tools already
you can get a kit to recover the seats for about $400
plus $200 for new trailer tires and bearings
The DESS post is ... I can't find that on the fiche right now...
The start button lists for about $130

Throw in another $200 or so in little stuff like filters, cleaning stuff, wiring stuff, buffing stuff, etc.

You could get lucky and the MPEM is there and the engine runs and it is only $1k to do everything else.
I'd be surprised though.
BOAT
Bust
Out
Another
Thousand

 

[SYKO]

Ok just talked to the guy, PO he got it from lost the key and cut the wires to the dess thinking it would work (have all these parts just no key) The MPEN is there and all hooked up just the cover removed. The compression of the engine has been checked and he said he can show me upon pickup that its holding and the engine will turn over. So we will just go from there, I was told my Lincoln project wouldn't never work... then wouldn't never run... then never drive.... and I can go right now and drive it from here to California without a problem... I work against adversity because its just a bitch that needs to be put in its place

 

[SYKO]

ahahaha, awesome car! I love projects like that, we would get along perfectly!!!

The first thing I would look for is that the wiring/MPEM is all there, if not, then source a used jetski for the swap/electrics. if you use the complete ski harness and treat the boat as if it were a ski, I`d see no problems with making up what you need by lengthening any wires...
just make sure you have a good known DESS key from the donor hull...

engine work is cake after that, the important part is that you have a safety start device/dess/ignition to fire up an engine...
the rest can be triggered independently ie Bilge pump circuits, blowers, lighting etc with a blue sea fuse panel of 6 or 12 circuits...

did someone say wiring , hahahahahhaa, hahahahaha

and project restomods! bring it baby!!!:rofl:

that's exactly the thinking I like to do!!! And knowing that makes any project attainable! Like that nascar!! awesome!!

 

[Guest_User]

that's exactly the thinking I like to do!!! And knowing that makes any project attainable! Like that nascar!! awesome!!

thanks, it is a real Gran Torino Sport that came with a 351C, needed more motor, so swapped in a worked 466 (.030 over) and prepped C6, yada yada yada... unfortunately I grew tired of the scene after years of participating and took a break, sold the Mark Martin car in 2001 only to get back into boats a year later, dayum...

what`s under the hood of the Linc? 91 running gear? 5.0? with AOD? do tell!!! ...lol...